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WilliamPitt

(58,179 posts)
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 10:42 PM Oct 2012

Obama bounces back...because of Obama.

You may have read my opinion of the debate on Wednesday night. I stand by my critique 100%...and am very very very very VERY glad to see this right here.

How Obama reset his campaign

Nobody had to tell President Barack Obama he had whiffed when he walked off the stage in Denver Wednesday night — nor was he in the mood for a lot of advice. “You could tell he was pissed,” said a person close to the president, “But it wasn’t like the end of the world. It was like, ‘That wasn’t good. The next one has to better.’ No apologies. No hand-wringing.”

(snip)

At first, Obama didn’t think his performance was a complete disaster. But he began Thursday morning by watching excerpts of his own performance and was especially struck by his own tentative, grim demeanor — especially when he and a more relaxed Mitt Romney were broadcast in split-screen. It was worse than he thought, according to one person close to the situation. He was subdued but positive on a conference call with staff.

He huddled with his inner circle — David Axelrod, David Plouffe, Valerie Jarrett, Anita Dunn, Ron Klain and Jim Messina — and settled on the theme they hammered all of Thursday — a direct attack on Romney that accused him of out-and-out lying on his tax-cut claims and portrayed the former Massachusetts governor as a two-faced imposter willing to say anything to win.

Hours after arguably the worst debate performance of his career, Obama charged that Romney is a different man than the guy he faced Wednesday. But it was the president who seemed to be a totally different guy on Thursday. Gone was the distracted, deer-in-headlights mumbler. In his place, suddenly, was someone doing a pretty good impersonation of Obama ’08.

The rest: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82091.html

GOOD.

It was a terrible debate, full of amazing opportunities that were missed. That is maddening, but doesn't have to be game-changing.

Sounds like the president has his head screwed on right. Mr. Romney should be worried about debate #2.

GOOD.

53 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Obama bounces back...because of Obama. (Original Post) WilliamPitt Oct 2012 OP
Jon Stewart had the best take on the debate... lame54 Oct 2012 #1
I expect Biden to score some points for our team next week and then Obama to be WI_DEM Oct 2012 #2
biden is going to tune up ryan madrchsod Oct 2012 #14
I maintain that he played it smart by not rebutting Mitt upon finding out the Mitt lying strategy. NYC_SKP Oct 2012 #3
I agree, the POTUS does not have to get into the muck with Romney to refute every lie the man tells. rgbecker Oct 2012 #8
yep. Here's what I said to someone BlancheSplanchnik Oct 2012 #22
Insightful and shrewd siligut Oct 2012 #37
Thanks, siligut! BlancheSplanchnik Oct 2012 #50
Hi, BlancheSplanchnik! NYC_SKP Oct 2012 #45
thank goodness is right! BlancheSplanchnik Oct 2012 #49
Debate performance was flat-footed and strategically inept alcibiades_mystery Oct 2012 #4
"even if it was pitched about two octaves too high" WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #7
Ah, brotha alcibiades_mystery Oct 2012 #9
I Think It Was A Trade Off Skraxx Oct 2012 #5
I think he will do much better in the 2nd debate. Jennicut Oct 2012 #6
He made no major gaffes and didn't give the other side anything to attack. BUT, Mitt LIED like hell, RBInMaine Oct 2012 #15
Two words.. Cha Oct 2012 #24
I think your critique was born of high blood pressure. LiberalAndProud Oct 2012 #10
are we a part of that reality, or not? bigtree Oct 2012 #11
Especially the people who had MULTIPLE THREADS RAGGING ON THE PRESIDENT K8-EEE Oct 2012 #21
One off night is just crazy talk - 60 something million people were watching. 60 mill !! Laura PourMeADrink Oct 2012 #27
"You would have to be brain-dead not to realize how devastating that is" WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #31
?? Laura PourMeADrink Oct 2012 #36
So, Obama was mad at himself? Or someone in his inner circle? Obviously some Laura PourMeADrink Oct 2012 #39
I was agreeing with you. WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #41
wow..you are way too cooler than I Laura PourMeADrink Oct 2012 #52
You think ProSense Oct 2012 #25
you must be more Machiavellian than most of us. We are pissed at him But, Laura PourMeADrink Oct 2012 #29
I think we have to stop putting all our stock on the debates... kentuck Oct 2012 #12
i`m still going with.."float like a butterfly...." madrchsod Oct 2012 #13
Good points, thank you, madrchsod Cha Oct 2012 #28
Biden now needs to KICK THE CRAP OUT OF RYAN. NO QUARTER ! RBInMaine Oct 2012 #16
This smells like ProSense Oct 2012 #17
Thanks for those tasty Cha Oct 2012 #33
I was vastly entertained by their characterization of Romney as "more relaxed". gkhouston Oct 2012 #42
It doesn't matter now. Major Hogwash Oct 2012 #18
sorry MH Laura PourMeADrink Oct 2012 #35
Well he sure didn't have any help from the hand wringers & bedwetters with bouncing back K8-EEE Oct 2012 #19
PS and quite honestly -- It was lame but not THAT CATASTROPHIC!! K8-EEE Oct 2012 #20
Agreed. Many on DU have already written his political obituary... Drunken Irishman Oct 2012 #32
They smell blood and see Cha Oct 2012 #34
It stunk to policy wonks. To more normal others, especially the relative newbies in that 67 million patrice Oct 2012 #23
What people think doesn't matter. It's how the MSM sells it and the people's reaction to them. fearnobush Oct 2012 #43
I was worried before the debate mountain grammy Oct 2012 #26
Most of us were just as pissed as he was... love the rebound though! budkin Oct 2012 #30
Silver lining... DearAbby Oct 2012 #38
My response was to send him money. ellie Oct 2012 #40
This doesn't take into account the fact that Mitt's cheat sheet will catch up with him. Zalatix Oct 2012 #44
I don't understand this. WilliamPitt Oct 2012 #47
I don't believe Obama performed poorly. Zalatix Oct 2012 #48
Totally disagree! ananda Oct 2012 #46
Read that yesterday too - very interesting reading. cilla4progress Oct 2012 #51
While most of us wanted to knock the shit out of Romney ourselves, Blue_Roses Oct 2012 #53

WI_DEM

(33,497 posts)
2. I expect Biden to score some points for our team next week and then Obama to be
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 10:50 PM
Oct 2012

ready for whichever Mitt Romney shows up for Debate #2

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
3. I maintain that he played it smart by not rebutting Mitt upon finding out the Mitt lying strategy.
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 10:51 PM
Oct 2012

He said, "Fuck this fool, I'll keep cool and lay low and let him dig his holes."

There's no way of knowing how taking on the "amazing opportunities" could have had a BAD outcome the next day.

He did the right thing by letting Mitt go on and on with little response.

rgbecker

(4,832 posts)
8. I agree, the POTUS does not have to get into the muck with Romney to refute every lie the man tells.
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:01 PM
Oct 2012

Best to leave the lying bastard to the pundits and just lay out his plans for moving FORWARD. Romney showed he was not going to debate policy but rather dodge and weave by lying about his position on each and every issue.

Suddenly, Romney who's entire tax policy is to reduce the "Job Creator's" taxes so they can hire more workers says he isn't going to reduce their taxes because he is going to close their loopholes and deductions. WTF? How could anyone reply to that in a way that was clear to the people who apparently were all taken in by the barrage of verbage taken right off the cheatsheet?

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
22. yep. Here's what I said to someone
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 12:07 AM
Oct 2012

who was kind of on the "He should have pile-drived Robme! This proves he's not fit to lead!!!" bandwagon. (Hey NYC_SKP! forgive me for quoting myself!! )




I think the next few years depend on someone who is capable of controlling himself in the face of scum and psychopaths.

During the show, I too wanted to see the Prez kick that creep in the nuts, but after some time to simmer down, I'm more aware that lighting your hair on fire doesn't do anyone any good. Seems a good majority of people are thinking the same.

I didn't read him as "bragging" about common ground. I took that as a strategy to take the focus away from rMoney's hyperbolics and back towards common sense; aiming towards higher ideals in the face of corruption. Anyway, the real purpose of the debates is to present themselves to the populace, not perform on the WWF. He may have been tired, and he may have been astounded by the sheer brazenness, and he may have been affected by the altitude, and the Syria/Turkey situation, but in spite of all that, he still managed to rise above the provocations Stenchy threw at him. That's leadership, imo.

And, take it from me, when dealing with Psychopaths, Narcissists, Borderline and other pathological personalities, the best way to engage is to manage your angry reactions, think clearly, appeal to those who are sane, and proceed unswayed toward your goals. (Not that I, personally do it so well! I think PBO has a better handle on that than I do. )

Dialogue is the ideal, but definitely--as you say--, you have to be able to go on without it when cooperation is not forthcoming.

Based on his various accomplishments so far, I think Obama has managed to do this pretty well, after he realized it is not possible to get repukes to behave like adults concerned for the good of all.

siligut

(12,272 posts)
37. Insightful and shrewd
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 12:32 AM
Oct 2012

If you can't just get away from the pathological personality, the last thing you want to do is jump in with them. Maybe our Prez did it naturally, maybe he is that good, or maybe he had been warned that trying to treat a person like Mitt reasonably will only open you up for abuse.

You know from experience and I am sorry for that, but damn, it is good that someone else can see what I saw.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
50. Thanks, siligut!
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 03:02 PM
Oct 2012

yes, I learned from my mother, that was the start....best thing to do was be as invisible as possible.

I practiced with many more similar types over the years.

anyway, enough about how I got my degree in Abnormal Psychology!

I'm just glad that Prez. Obama knows more than me!





(love your screen name, by the way! Funny!)

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
45. Hi, BlancheSplanchnik!
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 11:15 AM
Oct 2012

You said it, sweetie!

I've worked a lot with, shall we say, poorly adjusted individuals and managing your emotions (and your expectations) is key, key, key.

I think he played expertly and really in about the only we he could have and still maintained the dignity and authority that defines him.

We are a warlike people, aren't we?

We expect our leaders to smack back twice as hard.

Thank goodness that he knows better!

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
49. thank goodness is right!
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 02:58 PM
Oct 2012

call me a fangirl, but he really is quite amazing.




warlike people----yes we saw how that works out especially clearly with Commander Codpiece. The cowboy fantasy of every swaggerin' Amurkin' type beer drinkin' manly man......

as you say, again, Thank GOODNESS Prez. Obama is far and away more enlightened than that!

 

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
4. Debate performance was flat-footed and strategically inept
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 10:55 PM
Oct 2012

But the Obama camp was correct to let 47% dangle.

You caught too much shit for your analysis, even if it was pitched about two octaves too high. The rose-colored glasses were indeed in short supply. That said, it wasn't as bad as all that, in the big scheme of things.

I trust Obama. I contributed again this morning.

Skraxx

(2,977 posts)
5. I Think It Was A Trade Off
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 10:57 PM
Oct 2012

I'm not sure you could pull off the perfect performance. Sometimes you have to go for one thing, and not the other. Obama went for one thing last night, and in order to do that he had to sacrifice something else.

In the long run, it worked out fine, IMO.

Jennicut

(25,415 posts)
6. I think he will do much better in the 2nd debate.
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 10:57 PM
Oct 2012

He will be more on target and the town hall debate will be a much better format for him. I don't think the debate was a total disaster but I do think he can do better.
Incumbents don't always do well in their first debates. Not sure why...distracted by the job while campaigning and trying to cram info for the debate? Reagan sucked in his first one with Mondale, HW Bush was terrible at his first one and was double teamed with Clinton and Perot, W blew it at his first one with Kerry, Carter only got one chance and didn't do well. Only Clinton did well in '96 because....well, it was Bob Dole, who was like an ironing board.

 

RBInMaine

(13,570 posts)
15. He made no major gaffes and didn't give the other side anything to attack. BUT, Mitt LIED like hell,
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:21 PM
Oct 2012

and FLIPFLOPPED AGAIN, so now TeamObama can BASH AWAY in the aftermath and Obama will take off the gloves in #2. In fact, I bet the national audience will be even BIGGER in the next one.

Cha

(297,323 posts)
24. Two words..
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 12:13 AM
Oct 2012
BIG BIRD

Yeah, I've heard people say that everyone tuned into the first debate but probably wouldn't watch anymore... I say I think they'll be back for round two and tell their friends.
"Mitt wants to do WHAT to Big Bird?!"

LiberalAndProud

(12,799 posts)
10. I think your critique was born of high blood pressure.
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:03 PM
Oct 2012

In the end, Mitt Romney lost. Big.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1464864

Not this time. Obama did not deliver a spectacular performance. The truth is, he didn't have to. We are still digesting the points taken by each party, and in the end it doesn't bode well for Romney.

bigtree

(85,999 posts)
11. are we a part of that reality, or not?
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:08 PM
Oct 2012

What possible good did it do to add to all of the hand-winging articles, instead of leading with an all-out focus on Romney's lies?

I really don't understand a full-blown article the morning afterward; especially from folks who say they're concerned with how the public received and processed that debate.

'deer-in-the-headlights mumbler?'

That helps.

K8-EEE

(15,667 posts)
21. Especially the people who had MULTIPLE THREADS RAGGING ON THE PRESIDENT
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 12:03 AM
Oct 2012

WTF is the point of that. The guy has one off night and everybody's running around with their hair on fire.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
27. One off night is just crazy talk - 60 something million people were watching. 60 mill !!
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 12:20 AM
Oct 2012

Watching a one-sided critique of O's presidency. Hardly "one off night"

You would have to be brain-dead not to realize how devastating that is. And, it is Obama's weakest area - the economy, which magnifies the damage.

I agree with you - we can't keep ragging him. I am more mad than critical.

But, he's the one that has to step up. It sounds like he is doing that. I am hopeful that he can turn this around. That he hasn't blown it.

Still wondering why he's mad - obviously he did what he was told. Whoever told him to hang back - should be fired. But, I am a hardass as far as work goes.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
39. So, Obama was mad at himself? Or someone in his inner circle? Obviously some
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 01:08 AM
Oct 2012

must have told him to lay low. Guess he doesn't have to fire them ...but rather, just start listening more to the ones who said defend yourself - and if Romney says something stupid, go for it. My guess is that Ax and Plouffe are the ones who told him to not attack. They have always struck me as brilliant mathematicians crunching electoral votes....but lack any kind of political savvy. JMHO

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
25. You think
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 12:14 AM
Oct 2012

the President's campaign isn't aware of the dynamics?

Social media analysis: Who really won the debate?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021480923

Thursday night is gone, and so is Romney's high.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
29. you must be more Machiavellian than most of us. We are pissed at him But,
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 12:22 AM
Oct 2012

it will pass. You must be a very stoic person, to not be mad

kentuck

(111,104 posts)
12. I think we have to stop putting all our stock on the debates...
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:09 PM
Oct 2012

They are important but not all important.

Obama is not a good debater. He is a very good speaker and can be a great orator at times but that does not equate to a good debater.

I would agree that he has to be ready to defend himself and the job he has done but that is a minimal requirement.

Just because Mitt Romney can win a debate does not automatically make him the best choice for President.

madrchsod

(58,162 posts)
13. i`m still going with.."float like a butterfly...."
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:09 PM
Oct 2012

he stood there and let mittens lie,bully,talk down,and expose what mittens wife was really afraid of. there was no need to attack mittens because it would be impossible to refute every lie and half truth that he said.

there`s a lot to be said for not showing your tell during the first hand of poker.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
17. This smells like
Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:24 PM
Oct 2012
He huddled with his inner circle — David Axelrod, David Plouffe, Valerie Jarrett, Anita Dunn, Ron Klain and Jim Messina — and settled on the theme they hammered all of Thursday — a direct attack on Romney that accused him of out-and-out lying on his tax-cut claims and portrayed the former Massachusetts governor as a two-faced imposter willing to say anything to win.

Hours after arguably the worst debate performance of his career, Obama charged that Romney is a different man than the guy he faced Wednesday. But it was the president who seemed to be a totally different guy on Thursday. Gone was the distracted, deer-in-headlights mumbler. In his place, suddenly, was someone doing a pretty good impersonation of Obama ’08.

...typical Politico bullshit. Stephanie Cutter was on air that night talking about Romney's lies.

7:57 PM PT: Here's some of the spin from Obama's campaign:

Romney on defense all night (and testy) Over tax, medicare plans Came to prosecute a case about the president but ended up defending his own plans -- or lack of specifics.

The President spoke directly to the American people, talked to voters as adults, laid out his plans to deal w/ deficit in a responsible way and create good paying sustainable jobs for mid class

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/03/1139464/-The-first-2012-presidential-debate-President-Obama-vs-Mr-47-13


David Plouffe: Obama Didn’t Bring Up 47 Percent Because It’s Been ‘Chewed Over’

Obama adviser David Plouffe defended the president's lack of any mention of Romney's 47 percent remarks in a post-debate appearance on MSNBC.

"First of all on the 47%, that's an issue that just about 100% of the country knows about. It's been chewed on over and appropriately so," he said. "The reason it's called Romney's problem is because it wasn't a gaffe. It was a revealing moment. We've run advertising on it so our strategy here was not zingers necessarily."

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/david-plouffe-obama-didnt-bring-up-47-percent

gkhouston

(21,642 posts)
42. I was vastly entertained by their characterization of Romney as "more relaxed".
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 01:47 AM
Oct 2012

Several DUers talked about how wired Romney was during the debate. Some speculated that he was on drugs. Yeah, "more relaxed".

K8-EEE

(15,667 posts)
19. Well he sure didn't have any help from the hand wringers & bedwetters with bouncing back
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 12:00 AM
Oct 2012

I have to say, I don't mind people calling him out for missing opportunities and having a lackluster debate but Jesus Christ people he's a human being he's gonna have an off day now and then!

DU was like a cheerleader screaming 'YOU SUCK! YOU LOST ALREADY' when their team fumbles the ball -- more hyperbole here than at Freeperville.

K8-EEE

(15,667 posts)
20. PS and quite honestly -- It was lame but not THAT CATASTROPHIC!!
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 12:01 AM
Oct 2012

Jesus you would have thought he went up there and said he wanted to invade Mars or something!

 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
32. Agreed. Many on DU have already written his political obituary...
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 12:23 AM
Oct 2012

It's quite pathetic how so many of his supporters here are bandwagoners. It's not a big fucking deal. I'm guessing Obama realized it wasn't a big fucking deal and that's why he's not letting this get him down. It's one debate ... that's it.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
23. It stunk to policy wonks. To more normal others, especially the relative newbies in that 67 million
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 12:10 AM
Oct 2012

Wednesday night, it was more even match, with more people at 50:50 than most people are admitting.

fearnobush

(3,960 posts)
43. What people think doesn't matter. It's how the MSM sells it and the people's reaction to them.
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 02:02 AM
Oct 2012

And man, did they ever sell it. They fell in love with Rmoney and sold it to the American people. At the end of the debate, I knew Obama lost, but did I think it was a total and complete train wreck, no I did not. The MSM did and I can only hope Obama's 2008 reboot and today's job numbers change that narrative fast.

mountain grammy

(26,626 posts)
26. I was worried before the debate
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 12:17 AM
Oct 2012

had a bad feeling about it.. too hyped, more than any debate in my memory. Everyone expected Rmoney to look like a fool, and he didn't. The President was obviously subdued and ready for a different Mitt. Anyway, it's over, I'm no longer worried.. Rmoney is energized, but he'll say something stupid soon enough. He just can't help himself. Don't forget to vote, everyone!

DearAbby

(12,461 posts)
38. Silver lining...
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 12:32 AM
Oct 2012

Rove and the other super pacs are forced to keep spending on Romney, instead of concentrating down ticket...Obama had a blah night...but Rove & company (re: Senate and the House) not so good.

 

Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
44. This doesn't take into account the fact that Mitt's cheat sheet will catch up with him.
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 02:21 AM
Oct 2012

News about him reading from a piece of paper got back to me from someone I talked to over a cell phone earlier tonight.

It's getting around a LOT FASTER than I imagined it could.

 

WilliamPitt

(58,179 posts)
47. I don't understand this.
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 11:20 AM
Oct 2012

1. It was a hankerchief, at least as far as Rachel Maddow last night.

2. Even if it wasn't, what's the argument here? That the President of the United States of America had a poor debate showing because Mitt Romney had a crib sheet?

 

Zalatix

(8,994 posts)
48. I don't believe Obama performed poorly.
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 11:27 AM
Oct 2012

On top of that, Romney's Gish Gallop is catching up to him, as well as his cheat sheet.

Romney is snatching a brutal defeat from the jaws of a stalemate.

Obama played him like a fiddle, and could well do so again with even WORSE results for Romney. It's more likely, however, that this was a setup for a Presidential foot going up Rmoney's ass in the next debate. It was not, as I contended from minute 1, a loss for Obama.

ananda

(28,867 posts)
46. Totally disagree!
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 11:19 AM
Oct 2012

I think Obama did fine in debate one!

He told the truth and stayed on message.

Romney was a bully and aiming to draw
Obama out in a very nasty way.

Obama didn't take the bait.

Obama wins!

cilla4progress

(24,738 posts)
51. Read that yesterday too - very interesting reading.
Sat Oct 6, 2012, 03:09 PM
Oct 2012

I guess time will tell. A hell of a lot of pressure on our guy, but he's always pulled it out before.

Blue_Roses

(12,894 posts)
53. While most of us wanted to knock the shit out of Romney ourselves,
Sun Oct 7, 2012, 02:49 AM
Oct 2012

for all the bullshit he was spewing, we had to look to the president to do it for us. And it didn't happen.

I have to admit to my, "ATTACK HIM!" moment (well, actually there were several) and "WHY ISN'T HE SAYING ANYTHING", meltdown. But, never once did I lose faith in him. Grant it, I was wondering what was going on at the time. He did look melancholy. But, I didn't find the need to bash him the way I've seen so many "supporters" do through the web, etc.

It's like when someone's favorite football team is losing--everybody abandons ship, but hell, if they're winning--Katy-bar-the-door, cause everybody is on the bandwagon, grabbing for that piece of the "moment."

Obama had these moments in 2008 (albeit, they were very far and few between) and yet, that is when he became the strongest. It's almost like these moments have to happen with him in order to get that "Fired-up and ready to go," spirit we all know so well.

I have no doubt that the next debate will be VERY different.

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