People who shop online are getting a freebe.

And with more and more and more online shopping, and less brick/mortar places, money states and cities once had is no longer there.

Hey Kiddies- we are democratic and liberals here aren't we?
We are dear kiddies for spending on things like teachers and science and everything

WELL, WHERE THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU GET THOSE THINGS FROM???

I don't want no freebees, and even though it would affect me we need to pay this.

We don't want lower taxes, we want more revenue.

Or are you a freeloader proving Mittens correct?


sometimes I think most people don't actually know who pays to shovel the streets, collect garbage, pay for cops and firemen, etc.
And states need all the money they can get (as does the federal government.)

When that library you want to go to (as we are democrats we go to the library, the other side can't even spell it- when you get there and it closed because of lack of funds...

well, like d'uh....doh as Homer would say.(who probably never was in a library).

Yes, government gets money from sales taxes, it gets more relatively from the poor and middle class than it does from the wealthy.

Personally being a progressive I'm in favor of more progressive taxation schemes which makes expansion of sales taxes a less than completely desirable thing.

From a progressive point of view, you understand.

we need a higher deduction-

let me repeat
MORE DEDUCTIONS and the standard deduction needs to be higher

IN ALL STATES AND IN THE USA so one can get that money back.

(republicans and Mitt want to take our deductions away.)

We cannot though confuse the two SEPARATE points.

And until the last few years, we all have been paying sales tax in each state that has it,
until we started shopping on the internet (which in turn also has taken away many now obsolete jobs).

It is the internet that IMHO (along with the wars of course) has made our economy tank.
We never stabalized the system since since 2001 everything has morphed together.

And the poorest and middle class most need more money for schools, so when saying it is regressive, not having teachers and school funds is even more regressive.

Just make the W2s reflect different, and the 1040 forms state/local/federal have higher standard (let alone itemized) deductions allowed.

Lots of people are trying to survive with no job, a deduction doesn't do anything for them.

it is apples and oranges.

I would say make the first $75,000 tax free or something that way

but again, it's two separate issues

and it's a vicious cycle.

We need more money. We the people. We the government.

We do not need less taxes. We need MORE MONEY

Let's give the people something.

But states having no money is not the answer, and the internet, not thought of in any tax code, is crippling the economy as much as the war machine.
(and even 70% tax on every dollar above $200,000 isn't the long term answer.That is only federal.
One still would need sales tax.

I do like the system in France though. Works alot better than ours, especially in regard to health care

and one same as now, can have no tax on certain items- and if one can't afford a boat, one shouldn't buy a boat, but if you buy it online and the state collect 8%, then online should also be 8%. Same with a car, same with any item not a neccesity.

Where does one pay for retraining jobs, if not from taxes???

so let's not mix the two, and we should do away with the word tax altogether.
And call it essential spending money.


(in return, the governments could increase business taxes and demand lower prices for the goods.
So that say a 10buck item now would only be 8 bucks, but 2 would be taxes, net zero.

That could be a federal subsidy and have the government take over some of that.
And make unions manditory for every business(especially WalMart). Or tax higher any that does not allow unions.

(real socialism would be ideal, it has never though been tried.)


just random thoughts, big picture connected, small picture may not be evident.

(and this all reminds me of the gun threads throwing apples and oranges together leading to no solutions.) I don't want a freebee myself.
And yes, I am always thinking of the poor and middle class.
But i am also a realist who knows the war machine won't just up and go away, and that if it did, the states would lose all that money in places that only have the military as an industry, so its a vicious cycle.

But the business cycles go up and down, job rates up and down and in goodtimes we should all pay full tax on the internet for any item we would purchase off the internet paying tax with.
It is only fair. And we as democratic democrats want to be fair.

Rather than try to pass the costs of the government down to those who can least afford it, which is the net result of sales taxes.

Sales taxes are regressive and hit those who can least afford them the hardest, that's why you should stop pretending that increased sales taxes are a progressive policy.

It ain't gonna happen if Mitt wins you know.
If the teaparty ain't fully repudiated, it won't happen.
So we need Mitt and ryan to fully lose badly

arguing about wedge issues is a waste, a futile diversion when the only thing that matters is those currently voting for Obama not waste time arguing somthing that won't be voted on til after the election, and the result will depend on who owns the senate by how much, and the house.

Sales tax are not regressive if thos poorest don't have to pay it. And with Mitt, you ain't getting more, you are getting less.

But stop wanting freebees. Stealing items on the internet by not paying taxes IS THEFT of library dollars in each state. You pay for it in stores, the internet is a store.

And if the SS system was built decades ago when life expectancy was in the 60s, and now its in the 70s, when back then more than not didnot live to the age but died earlier, now they live older, of course at some point, (those older will be grandfathered in), but this is the real world.

You can't live on SS anyhow, and medical costs are more the older one gets
therefore if you live 10 years longer, and 70 is yesterdays 40, well, we all gotta act our new age and not make demands that are not 2012.

and you holier than thou people blew it in 1968, 1980 and 2000 by your holier than thou attitudes
(you kicked the single most progressive ever to be president in the last 50 years out (LBJ) because of something any other president also would have done with Eisenhower's war.

You holier than thou kicked out Carter by backing Teddy in the one race he should not have run

You holier than thou kicked out Gore by voting for Nader. (I blame Nader over the theft, it was his lies lies lies)

These stupid wedge issues don't matter if one doesn't win

And the idiots, YES IDIOTS like Russ Feingold and Bill Bradley whined and quit and took the ball home now there is a republican governor in NJ thanks Bill Bradley, you ain't forgiven.

and btw- if Biden loses the debate as there is a 50/50 he will lose- STFU and say he won.
Loose lips sink ships.

I was just following your lead.

Life expectancy for lower income Americans is actually dropping at the moment, not increasing.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2012_09/shocker_stat_of_the_day_life_e040058.php

the point of this thread is the people stealing items without paying tax on the internet, because tax laws are old, never changed, and not including internet(due to technicality of it not being mentioned.)

IF you go in Georgia to a retail store in a physical mall- you pay tax.
Why shouldn't you pay the same?

It actually is not higher taxes at all- it is the SAME TAX that already was charged for the same exact items

The internet is not free even though people think they can steal. NO it hurts everyone to do that, like people who don't file their tax forms.
(same with singers/actors when an illegal download happens and the artist doesn't get paid for it. You can get rid of the corporate record people, but the artists still need to survive, they ain't doing it for fun.(unless they themselves are billionaires and say-this is free.)
(but then many don't agree and think they have a legal right to steal. Bullshit.

Note who is cheering and who is not on this thread.

A progressive tax is something progressives cheer, the reader is left to draw his own conclusion about who cheers .
a regressive tax.

By their fruits shall ye know them.

Regressive taxation may be an annoyance to the middle class and upward, but it helps keep the poor and disadvantaged perpetually poor. Add to sales tax: "sin" taxes, gas taxes, user fees for government services, license fees, fines and court fees. The people with the least in life get always get disproportionately gouged the most.

And tax credits don't relieve any of the pain if you can't afford to do your taxes, owe the government money (ie from a failed personal business), have no income, or must wait for a once a year check to be mailed to your cardboard box.

This is THE major rationale towards governments everywhere wanting to create a cashless society.

This is why the dems never keep office.

the other side has unity.(They kicked Bush41 out for raising taxes. Reagan bankrupted America, yet he is considered a hero by them.)

How realistically without having the socialist system IN PLACE FIRST, do you change the whole thing?

Once you tax the upper class down to middle class (let's theorize- so then what???
How possibly are you going to finance America?

Please let me know.

Because well, we are democrats and we need real life answers. Not daydreams like trickle down is.

and be specific please.
It's like the Mid-east. Been hundreds of years and no one solved this dilema.

(Hint hint-we could have a national program of some sort for 17 to 21 year olds, then college for all free of charge, don't call it a draft, doesn't have to be military but then all the 17 to 21 (no exemptions for anyone) are out of the job market.


and I am for 100% citizenship after 100% amnesty, so please include those great people, one of whom may cure Cancer soon, in the money equation.

Who said anything about socialism?

A progressive tax system is now socialism?

Where have I heard that before?

I commend your courage to keep making your point!

Just FYI, sales taxes don't PAY for teachers or firefighters. PROPERTY taxes pay for those things.

If you catch my drift.

It's certainly been damned crazy around here since last week.

back.

These funds go right into the pockets of the Republicans in control of Georgia.

PROPERTY taxes pay for teachers, firefighters, cops - NOT SALES TAX.

GAS taxes pay for roads.

SALES TAX PAYS REPUBLICANS TO MAINTAIN CONTROL OF GEORGIA'S GOVERNMENT.

Why the holy hell do you think those same repbulicanlibertarian idiots want a FLAT TAX?

and Donahue CEO of Ebay follows everything Amazon does, so 50 state sales tax on ebay is coming.

my online business is required to collect sales tax on all purchases. My site has been ecommerce since '03 and after thousands of online purchases, I'm still waiting on someone to complain about paying it.