it is the first one than the last one

One poll changed and a PANIC ensues????

With early voting, a substantial percentage of the public will have voted before the last two. And even if the "undecideds" wait until the last minute, the only way to win this thing os for those undecideds to really understand the differences -- to understand, for example, that Romney really is on a path to shut down Medicare. You cannot start that education process the last two weeks, especially when the campaign seems to be doing its best to AVOID drawing any clear lines of distinction.

This has turned into a war of platitudes with few specifics coming from either side. You cannot turn that around in the past 10 days before the election. Every day is critical now. Every day that Obama goes out there with a big grin on his face just tossing out happy talk with no specifics is a day that works for Romney.

We are now well within the range where Florida will be stolen. I doubt that is salvageable.

We are getting near that point in Ohio, and we know both of those states can and will do all sorts of shenanigans to tip the vote.

Worse, we are within range in two states that have real crooks in charge: WI and MI. Every WI election recently has had major irregularities. If we end up with 2% on election day, Walker could flip that.

Isn't it funny that Repubs only have to get "close enough to steal it" and we DEMs have to turn out every damned voter we can find to not only win, but win big enough to counter the steal.

makes sense once people realize that the Republican Party is virtually a criminal enterprise.

when people realize the "Republican Party is virtually a criminal enterprise."

The problem is, though, there's just too many people in this country who seem to admire the most criminal among them. Not only did they bemoan the jail sentences of the Watergate burglars, they treated them like heros when they got out of jail.

and that Mitt Romney is a credible candidate for the Presidency of a democracy.

now, we may not like it, and we may despise people like Mitt Romney, and the Republican Congress, but they ARE a legitimate part of a democracy.

Your post is just silly.

Do you think that Karl Rove is legitimate?

the Republican party is STILL a legitimate part of our democracy.

Do I think the Republicans that "won" elections in Georgia through electronic vote manipulation are legitimate office holders? Of course not.

But I do believe that the 2 party system is what is required for democracy to flourish.

That's not democratic.

I understand EXACTLY what their goal is.

I live it every damned day.

They can only achieve that goal if they DESTROY democracy.

Are you and I going to let them?

I wish I could do more, but I just can't.

If they allow that damned new COLA on Social Security, I'm going to encourage all Social Security receipents to "donate" their COLA increase every month to Democratic politicians.

Then, we can ask THEM if they can live on that.

democracy where most people vote their self-interest, the Rape-publicans would receive little more than 10-15% of the vote. That they receive significantly more than that, time after time, should be DEEPLY DISTURBING to any sentient being.

.

There is the key. Do you really think those Rand Paul supporters who stomped that woman could be called mature in any sense of the word.

Honestly, the key is "an educated democracy" far less than maturity.

"...ARE a legitimate part of a democracy."? Then I guess shoplifters are a legitimate part of the economy.

We don't have to like it, and we don't have to accept the outcome but they most CERTAINLY a part of our democracy.

I guess you've never worked in retail. If you had, you'd understand that the price of a product includes the amount they EXPECT to lose to shoplifters.

should be a rump party with no more than 10-15% of the vote. That they enjoy over 40% of the vote is deeply disturbing and the mark of an immature, spoiled and, quite frankly, insane electorate.

The USA has the best distractions in the world. Did you see those last two singers on The Voice last night? OMG, they were just incredible! Seriously, we have got entertainment to die for--maybe literally.

like maybe I should make an exception for this one, though

Your point about 'distractions' ('entertainment') eerily summons the classical Roman 'bread and circuses.' To think Abraham Lincoln thought of us as the 'last, best hope on earth' (December, 1862 annual message to Congress). Something has gone seriously awry between Lincoln's time and ours.

The part I'm referring to was Amanda vs. Trevin. It's on youtube and if you're going to make an exception, I recommend that performance.

I think that our rulers have decided that our circuses are so good we don't even need bread.

There it is!!.....If any,ANY other group did the thievery and pillage the gop has,it'd be termed an ongoing criminal conspiracy and have a barrage of RICO charges rained upon them....

why not do it every time, in every close election? There is no penalty, and voters continue to vote for them.

The repubs saw the Dems do nothing when they stole the elections in 2000 and 2004 (see my post below).

If you act like sheep expect a close shave

What do we do???

What did they do in the Ukraine when that election was stolen in 2004 ?

1) They knew ahead of time there was a very good chance the election was gonna be stolen so they prepared themselves for massive demonstrations.

2) When it became obvious it was stolen they got in the street and stayed in the street.

Americans are very wimpy. Im not sure they have what it takes.

Remember all the problems we have today have happened before and all the solutions have already been found.

BUT the solutions depend on a population that is not wimpy

Look, it was in Georgia in 2002 where they perfected the theft.

Yet, no one seems to care.

The 2002 Georgia election resulted in the Republicans taking over the state legislature for the first time in 128 years.

When we shrieked, screamed and tried to fight it, we were called conspiracy nuts, whack jobs and idiots.

BY THE DEMOCRATS.

Yes, the loudest accuser was our own Democratic Secretary of State, Cathy Cox.

THAT is why the DEMs have done nothing about voting machines - because it was DEM SoSs who put them in place.

It's beyond troubling.

is great and deeply involved in increasing voter access. So speak for your own State.

I suggest you keep it that way.

But, simply based on my discussion you are reply to, I WAS referring to my state.

2004 Ohio Result Day After Presidential Election: Bush 52% Kerry 48%
Any questions?

...btw, those were the same voting machines that gave us wins in 2006 and 2008, right?

may I suggest you read BradBlog.com for information on election fraud. Also, check out the documentary called Hacking Democracy it was on HBO around 04.

cheers
Sandy

Edit: clearly your are not new here - you've been here as long as I have so surely you've heard what happened in OH? Kerry didn't push it for reasons we may never know.

...and it's an article of faith that I've never accepted, for three reasons.

1) Again, no candidate or Party official has ever alleged that the election was stolen using voting machine technology. Republicans steal elections the old-fashioned way: voter intimidation, reducing the number of machines to make the lines longer, etc.

2) The machines that were under Republican control in 2004 were under Republican control in 2006 when we won the Governorship, a Senate seat and a heap of House seats.

3) the size of the conspiracy required (Party officials, manufacturers, statisticians, programmers) to conceive and implement such a fix and then, over time, make decisions as to which races to rig and which machines to adjust by how much is too large to keep everyone involved quiet.

nb - I find it interesting that the same people here who are objecting to Gallup and now Pew as biased polling samples, rely on the accuracy of polling samples in 2004 as evidence of vote rigging.

Hacking Democracy? Also as someone who currently lives in Florida I know what we are doing to prevent another issue of ballots in the trash. For example, the Democratic party is pushing - has been pushing - vote by mail. Why? Because we watch those very closely now.

It's true no politician has come forth and said those machines are rigged but the documentary showed exactly how it's done within each precinct. And boy do we have some corrupt officials here in Florida as it is.

Is it possible? Yes. Has it been done widely? No. Does it need to be? Nope. If an election is very close you only need a couple of precincts to do it.

The R's are getting busted all over the country *now* for ELECTION fraud. They made a huge mess in Florida this year alone. Also view former RNC Chair for Florida Jim Greer's testimony and statements.

Cheers
Sandy

...why draw attention to your motives through voter purgess, throwing out registration forms, Voter ID requirements, etc?

And again, I'm not saying it's not technically possible; I'm saying its not organizationally possible to develop and implement the process and keep it a secret.

Add voter suppression efforts to it (and when people say voting is pointless I point that out too) and voter apathy (the worst kind of suppression as it's self deception). If an election is close or confused you only need a few districts flipped. Like the one in OH in 04 or Florida 00.

Also, every precinct uses a different method and machine. Some districts are worse [more corrupt] than others.

Cheers
Sandy

Why they don't trust the computers, I'll never know.

The computers are always right.
The programming is perfect.
There are no viruses, or hacks.

If we just keeping telling ourselves that, it will come true.

They know how to switch individual votes to Republican candidates before the actual ballot templates are loaded into them, and can do it accurately enough over such a wide range of precincts that they can overturn an election.

And of course there is absolutely no possibility that a system of strictly manual counts of paper ballots could ever be gamed. Election fraud never happened before the transistor was invented.

Here are dedicated workers counting ballots in Haiti in 2006.

they are also questioning their own.

It makes absolutely no sense to you and I. We believe they won their election fair and square (the DEMs, I mean) but for some reason THEY don't.

I spent YEARS talking to politicians about these machines. They simply won't question a Republican vote count because they don't believe in their OWN vote count.

Elections are State by State. The politicians in your State sound very different from the ones here. If you guys are still using that bogus machine system, you guys are part of the problem and you need to take action like other States have done....

"take action" in states controlled by Republican governors and legislatures.

I would add, in states controlled by Republican governors, legislatures and Blue Dog Democrats.

every one of them except John Lewis.

Like you say, the computers can just flip the vote.

And I am sure you have no trust whatsoever in the republicans who own, program and control the vote counting computers, right?

I have enough real experience to know that the safe assumption is that they're all cut from the same cloth.

Or, trust but verify. Dual control at all times. Maintain records of the chain of custody of all items. Never leave any person alone with temptation.

The one you posted above, with you wearing the tinfoil hat?

And here I thought you were making fun of the voting machine skeptics.

I am skeptical of human nature, but I don't subscribe to twisted conspiracy theories.

I am a software engineer. I've been working in IT for nearly 29 years. I have a very good idea about how computer systems can fail, or be manipulated. Some of the ideas presented by the stolen election theorists don't pass a basic logic check.

Ok, which theories do pass your test?

You said a count can be flipped, right?

...which results would need to be flipped in order to achieve a predetermined result.

The idea of using vote flipping to alter the outcome of an election is absurd, unless one expands the conspiracy to include all of the people who create ballot templates, which can vary widely from one precinct to the next in a typical election because of local issues and candidates.

The election machine company's programmer can program the count to be counted anyway the programer wants the count to be counted. To say otherwise, as you seem to be saying, is what is absurd.

...race in a future election. A voting machine's application is a blank grid onto which candidates and issues are configured for elections.

where all the ballots are created by a single source?

Look up Kennesaw State college and their Election Center.

They have D and R. And Independent to use as a determination.

You must know that the flipping comes in the tabulations, not as the actual vote is cast. There is no blank slate on the tabulation, the votes are placed by the programming into known columns. If you are the expert you claim to be, you should know these basic facts.

It doesn't really matter - Without actual evidence that any election result in this country has ever been altered through programmatic skulduggery, there isn't anything to discuss.

There are many known cases of programming altering the counts.

Sarasota in 2006, is one.

Numerous counts have been found to be mistaken when the paper ballots were eye-counted.

I find it absurd that you either don't know or are not willing to see the proof of programming altering counts.

Or are you just not interested in true elections?

Lets see, they stole the 2000 election, right?

And now they own the voting machine companies and the programmers that write the code on the vote counting computers.

But they stopped trying to steal elections?

by all the voter suppression activity among Republican state officials.

Ryan's positions ? It will be one evil "mandate" they will claim the nation has given them if elected
WHo knows "which Rmoney" will surface too???

One thing I noticed is a lot of R?R signs now going up are also next to local election choices so I am even wondering now about the house and senate if he gets stronger in the polls
GOTV GOTV
Maybe I am chicken little I do not know if the polls reflect the nation or how bad voter suppression will be and have we seen the full load of ads yet that corp money can buy ??

But it will be hell at home and war abroad if they get in

The low info voters will just go along if the right stuff is on TV or a new apple product to keep them happy comes out and I think they are the average joe/janes. Many will vote for Rmoney and be gung ho about fighting Iran

Those types distain icky revolution so anyone who goes out into the streets will get taken down opinion wise if not physically imo

over at youtube to see a clear explanation of how the 2004 election was stolen

Stealing America: Vote By Vote
http://www.stealingamericathemovie.org/

STEALING AMERICA: Vote by Vote on Vimeo
http://vimeo.com/2019192

We also need politicians that are not like Gore or Kerry who will just fold their tent and say there is nothing they can do.

Those two fucking assholes should be run out of the party.

I want Dems that are fighters. Not carpets to be walked on.

It really isn't close enough to be stolen. Just as in reality it wasn't close enough for Bush to steal if more democrats had voted. We need to stop making excuses for the millions of lazy Americans who can't take the time to roll off their sofas and vote for their own best interest.

for 3rd party Nadar. I'm not at all against a 3rd party, just wish they would get them into congress 1st before splitting the vote that ends up handing an election to the Rs time after time.

In Florida we have a big push for vote-by-mail. Democrats in each district/precinct are on hand to see those votes counted. Know this from the source - local Democrat party headquarters in the red-controlled part of the state.

Cheers
Sandy

in florida it was "jews for buchanan" (confusing butterfly ballot), voter suppression (legal voters denied voting placed on a purge list, and voter intimidation (police blockades in areas where there were minorities). So, keep going with the "nader" excuse, it keeps any third party that may actually represent the people from even being on the ballot.

and, actually looking at all they did in florida, and then the partisan supremes come in to make the final decision, I don't even think we're much of a democratic republic right now. It looks more like a very CORRUPT banana republic, with the plutocrats calling the shots.

what are we teaching are youth? That it's alright to lie, cheat, steal,as long as you win? I mean they really are into the "ends justify the means." but, the ends seem only to help their friends and gain power for themselves, while the means hurt every american.

I had just moved back to the US at the time and it politicized me. Seeing the SCOTUS select a President was sickening. I am in Florida.

Further, any 3rd party movement should put some in Congress first before going for President. Politics works on DEMAND. You cannot change a country from the top down no more than trickle down economics work.

Stealing elections is not about the polls being close enough. It it about opportunity and motive.

With electronic voting, there is no lack of opportunity, rather the opportunity was by design so foreign elections could be rigged.

The motive is being behind in the polls!

to me the best thing is to GOTV!!!!!!!!!!!

SOS's are republican in many key states.

Couple that with all the voter suppression tactics they are pulling and the electronic voting machines and you have a perfect recipe for stealing an election and making it look legitimate.

Become the obstructionists so a Romney presidency goes no where fast. We on the left could learn a lot from the radicals on the right. We're smarter and write better signs LOL.

Seriously, more people should be focused on who we are sending to Congress. Just like those that would vote Green for President really should send more of them to Congress FIRST before attempting to get a 3rd party President.

Cheers
Sandy

McConnell would use the "nuclear option" the first time any significant issue comes up. They threatened to do it the last time they were in that position. They would not hesitate this time. They know the demographics are getting away from them.

It's not time to cheat (would never be for that) but we don't have to play fair. We need to turn the tables on them. We may not have majority in Congress after this election (everything I read suggests we'll pick up seats, likely keep the Senate but not a majority in Congress) but still have the choice to pull the party to the left between now and 2014 and 2016.

Cheers
Sandy

I still see Obama winning with a 7-8% margin, and it will be Colorado that decides that Obama will be the President with its 9 EV's.

Democratic House is now a reality.

Strengthening the Senate is now possible. (+4-+6 additional newly elected D Senators)