the one that mattered was last week, and our pres, shit the bed. no one watched this one. baseball playoffs on, modern family hour special, college football games....

Joe did good. RAyn didn't.

A bad result for them by default would mean a plus for our side, right? And I disagree with the common belief that VP debates are mere window dressing on the campaign. Joe was able to make his point tonight and do so strongly. I think this one is going to leave a mark.

generally the VP debate will not save a sinking campaign. FTR, I don't think the 1st Pres debate was that big of a debacle. The poll bounce is already stabilizing back to Obama +.

Usually, the VP debate only has an affect when a candidate strays off message and commits the campaign to defending something they don't want to address, or makes a major gaffe that really gets people into mode. The general tone is important, too. Last cycle, Palin came across pretty authentic to who she was, a beauty pageant contestant, not a real political candidate. She ended up hurting McCain more than she helped because there was/is no "there" there. RAyn didn't have any major screw-ups that I could see, and he didn't drool all over the stage, so he probably didn't hurt Romney's campaign, but he didn't help it much either. He was pretty wishy-washy and fact-free for the most part, which is actually right on message for them. It takes a reach and some Repub spin to say he looked "Presidential" IMHO. I thought he looked out of his depth, actually.

So my score would be: Biden net positive for Team Obama, RAyn neutral/no effect for R/R.

I just flipped over to faux news and Charles Krauthammer is saying EXACTLY that.