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ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
Fri Oct 12, 2012, 04:35 AM Oct 2012

Paul Ryan implied we could force Iraq to stop Iranian flights to Syria

RADDATZ: What happens if Assad does not fall, Congressman Ryan? What happens to the region? What happens if he hangs on? What happens if he does?

RYAN: Then Iran keeps their greatest ally in the region. He's a sponsor of terrorism. He'll probably continue slaughtering his people. We and the world community will lose our credibility on this. Look, he mentioned the reset...

RADDATZ: So what would Romney-Ryan do about that credibility?

RYAN: Well, we agree with the same red line, actually, they do on chemical weapons, but not putting American troops in, other than to secure those chemical weapons. They're right about that.

But what we should have done earlier is work with those freedom fighters, those dissidents in Syria. We should not have called Bashar Assad a reformer. And...

RADDATZ: What's your criteria...

(CROSSTALK)

RYAN: ... we should not have -- we should not have waited to Russia...

RADDATZ: What's your criteria...

(CROSSTALK)

RYAN: ... should not have waited for Russia to give us the green light at the U.N. to do something about it.

BIDEN: Russia...

RYAN: They're -- they're still arming the man. Iran is flying flights over Iraq...

BIDEN: And the opposition is being armed.

RYAN: ... to help Bashar Assad. And, by the way, if we had the status-of-forces agreement that the vice president said he would bet his vice presidency on in Iraq, we probably would have been able to prevent that. But he failed to achieve that, as well, again.


RADDATZ: Let me ask you a quick question.

BIDEN: I don't...

RADDATZ: What's your criteria for intervention?

BIDEN: Yeah. RYAN: In Syria?

RADDATZ: Worldwide.

RYAN: What is in the national interests of the American people.

RADDATZ: How about humanitarian interests?

RYAN: What is in the national security of the American people. It's got to be in the strategic national interests of our country.

RADDATZ: No humanitarian?

RYAN: Each situation will -- will come up with its own set of circumstances, but putting American troops on the ground? That's got to be within the national security interests of the American people.

RADDATZ: I want to -- we're -- we're almost out of time here.

RYAN: That means like embargoes and sanctions and overflights, those are things that don't put American troops on the ground. But if you're talking about putting American troops on the ground, only in our national security interests.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/vice-presidential-debate-transcript-danvilel-ky-oct-11/story?id=17457175&page=13#.UHfTphhGSCM


Iraq presently has not a single trained military pilot: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Air_Force#Future - and will not have a functioning jet fighter air force until December of 2013 at the earliest. Quite simply, I don't think Paul Ryan understands that an effective embargo requires military force. The only way we would be able to effectively embargo Syria in the air is with our own air force and I think most of us already know that this is not possible without putting "American troops on the ground." Martha Raddatz tried to save him from that answer, but in the end, Paul Ryan couldn't save himself from his own blundering.

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MrScorpio

(73,631 posts)
1. By the way, Iraq had a credible anti-aircraft system before we invaded that country and destroyed it
Fri Oct 12, 2012, 05:27 AM
Oct 2012

Basically, we left it helpless.

If Iran can fly all over Iraq at will, we only have ourselves to blame for that.

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
7. To be fair
Fri Oct 12, 2012, 01:46 PM
Oct 2012

Iran has been flying arms (among other routes) to Syria to support Damascus, Hezbollah, and Hamas since even before our invasion of Iraq - lengthy look at the issue: http://articles.latimes.com/2008/may/04/world/fg-hezbollah4 . The fact is that what Paul Ryan suggested here would constitute an act of war.

Kolesar

(31,182 posts)
9. That's a huge story
Fri Oct 12, 2012, 04:16 PM
Oct 2012

When the label "terrorist" is thrown around, it is often referring to this proxy war that Iran and the United States are fighting through Hamas and Israel. It's a bigger story than Iran's nuclear weapons program, in my opinion.

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
10. I'd view Iran's nuclear program as simply part of the proxy war.
Fri Oct 12, 2012, 04:29 PM
Oct 2012

I suppose the interesting thing, which has largely been under-analyzed, will be whether when Syria emerges out of the 5-10-year bloody civil war that is unfolding as a nation with continued regional ambition or rather as a nation looking for an end to the proxy conflict. This revolution will have very interesting fall-out for Hezbollah and Hamas, and I'm not all certain that it will be good. The old saying after all was that the road to peace in Jerusalem goes through Damascus.

Either way, Ryan/Romney do not have any diplomatic experience at this point and no academic expertise in any of these subject matters. They are not qualified to conduct foreign policy and no crash-course in political campaign on foreign policy is going to change that reality.

Kolesar

(31,182 posts)
11. "under-analyzed" and "under reported"
Fri Oct 12, 2012, 04:52 PM
Oct 2012

Russia and the European nuclear industry are in on this. I think the Russians like trolling Iran along because it makes them feel "powerful" and feel like a counter to the US. In Russia, the public thinks that the Kremlin is total wussies when dealing with the US. They perceive that we walk all over them. So, Putin gets rewarded by his people for playing this game.

And kids get blown up by small bombs and grenades.

LeftofObama

(4,243 posts)
2. That's what I heard too.
Fri Oct 12, 2012, 06:11 AM
Oct 2012

And then when Lyan started blowing the dog whistle about Assad murdering his own people I thought, "Uh oh, where have we heard that before." These repukes are itching to start another war.

Kolesar

(31,182 posts)
3. Ryan would have the US Air Force fly from bases in Iraq to interdict Iranian cargo planes to Syria
Fri Oct 12, 2012, 07:21 AM
Oct 2012

You said it well, Ellisonz:
I think most of us already know that this is not possible without putting "American troops on the ground."

ananda

(28,870 posts)
4. Exactly.
Fri Oct 12, 2012, 07:39 AM
Oct 2012

Biden was at his debate best here, forcing Ryan to reveal
the warhawk element in his so-called "plan" for Syria.

That really sealed it for me.

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
6. He's not even really trying break out the warhawk either...
Fri Oct 12, 2012, 01:30 PM
Oct 2012

...it just sort of comes out naturally as part of his schtick.

In fact, he rather seems to be trying to avoid it - hopefully the media will press him.

ellisonz

(27,711 posts)
8. I think this is another stunning exchange...
Fri Oct 12, 2012, 03:25 PM
Oct 2012

...Paul Ryan wants to send more and more Americans to fight an endless war in Afghanistan.

RYAN: Spring, summer, fall. It's warm, or it's not. They're still fighting us. They're still coming over the passes. They're still coming into Zabul, to Kunar, to all of these areas, but we are sending fewer people to the front to fight them. And that's...

(CROSSTALK)

BIDEN: That's right, because that's the Afghan responsibility. We've trained them.

RYAN: Not in the east.

RADDATZ: Let's move -- let's move to another war.

BIDEN: Not in the east?

RYAN: R.C. East -- R.C. East...

BIDEN: R.C. East is the most dangerous place in the world.

RYAN: That's right. That's why we don't want to send fewer people to the...

BIDEN: That's -- that's why we should send Americans in to do the job, instead of the -- you'd rather Americans be going in doing the job instead of the trainees?

RYAN: No. We are already sending Americans to do the job, but fewer of them. That's the whole problem.

BIDEN: That's right. We're sending in more Afghans to do the job, Afghans to do the job.


http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/vice-presidential-debate-transcript-danvilel-ky-oct-11/story?id=17457175&page=12#.UHhs_hhGSCM
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