Without the rightwing media spin, along with very bad moderation
on the part of Lehrer, both Obama and Biden win.

is the whole Big Bird thing. I think Obama lost the debate in the moment, but as far as lasting effect of it, I think Obama is better off.

After watching the 2nd time the media called it for a repug, it's pretty clear who they will say win the next one no matter what happens.

to go all "bully" on Rmoney's ass didn't take into account the FACT that no matter HOW he debates, he will STILL be trashed, including right here on DU.

And after Joe's excellent smack-down of the smarmy snotty kid, suddenly the shoe was on the other foot and naturally, Joe was labeled as "rude" and "condescending", despite the fact that his "style" was the same as Rmoney's just a week before. The difference being that Joe uses FACTS and not the blizzard of lies that Rmoney and Lyin Ryan put forth.

We as Dems have a right to criticize, certainly. But the disgusting pile-on of the past week was uncalled for. We need to stop repeating RW memes because ultimately, the lamestream media don't care who it is from our side, they can do no right.

And Ryan was just being Ryan and that Biden won because he did to Ryan what we all want to do to him.