its always been there. The difference is that the uncivilized are now getting elected to congress and the media is covering it constantly.

As a rider of public transportation on and off since the 50's, the yound and hale use to vacate their seats without being told to the old and frail. Now they often won't even when being asked. The attitude is any where from ignoring the request to glaring.

I am not saying they were not uncivil but you need to look at history itself and realize we the human race have never been truly civil, oh we like to pretend we are sure but the facts are the facts

once told me.

I think it goes deeper than politics. We've become two countries. I think the anti-science and anti-intellectual and anti-reason forces in this country have grown much stronger. 30% of Republicans believe that Obama is a Muslim. More people in this country believe in angels than in evolution. 15% of Americans believe the sun revolves around the earth. We have members of Congress on the Science committee who say that evolution and the Big Bang are satanic ideas.

We are two countries.

One country is Belief oriented....the only thing that counts is what your gut and heart tells you. They believe what they want regardless of facts. They are susceptible to meaningless phrases, stereotypes, symbols, irrational biases, and simplistic diagnoses and solutions that play on their hopes and fears.

The other country is Reality/Fact based... facts count, and emotions less so. The two countries are miles apart. There can be little compromise on abortion, for example, if one side believes their god forbids it, while the other side says the decision is up to the individual, and not an occult being. Us lefties simply will not compromise with people who base their world view on myths.

If the two countries in the US were a married couple, any counselor would tell us to get a divorce.

I believe the greedy rich have ignited this culture war between those who are into "pure science" and those who believe in "pure religion". Even Jesus said to give unto Cesar what is Cesar's and that we live in the world but are not "of" the world.

There were MANY civil conversations back to the time of the Greeks and early Christians even, so it isn't impossible. Many people have believed in God and understood the value of science over several thousand years so it isn't a "GIVEN" that we are so far apart. It's being pushed from the 1% down to create the next great schism and keep us busy while they rob US blind and take over the country.

A poor person who isn't TAUGHT science and only HAS religion is an easy target for such tactics. Which is why as a person of faith, I'm a DEM who fights for Science to be taught in schools and against the melding of Church and State.

I happen to be a Christian that straddles Science and Religion and know when one or the other is appropriate.

So for me, religion is my own spiritual thing, and science helps me understand the world I live in. Science can help me make better decisions in many respects, but in a few areas I feel a need to be and do more than pure science or humanism requires and in those times and places, it's my faith that gets me through.

Example my only problem with evolution is the missing link, but that is really more of a theoretical dilemma. Even if humans WERE put here by an intelligent being, it's obvious that we were created from the same substance as our fellow creatures and follow the same basic evolutionary rules that Darwin observed. I know that "IDA" is the latest find and there are possibilities there, but is it a true slam dunk? I'm still studying and waiting for more details before I make up my mind. Even a scientist is allowed to be skeptical, so why not a Christian?
http://blog.ted.com/2009/05/19/darwin_validate/

Ironically, I think if we can win this election, get our country back on track to prosperity and away from being governed by the religiously intolerant (and by that I mean the right-wing nuts that tolerate nothing other than their OWN religion) then we CAN have some successful conversations on abortion that begin with helping girls and women to not be forced into situations where they are faced with that choice. Having each side do the parts they are comfortable with to lessen abortions in general.

Abortion isn't a type of medical procedure that most women really want to have anyway. Birth control choices should be available way before it gets to that point. EMPOWERMENT of women to make those choices is STILL the ROLE of government and supporting people to heal in or prevent situations where abortion becomes the only option can be a joint effort of the Therapy and Religious communities.

I'm Pro-Choice, Pro-Birth Control and I'm Pro-Life and FOR ME that means LIFE is precious and needs to be respected AFTER a child is born as well. I understand that sometimes a difficult decision HAS to be made and only the people who have to LIVE with that decision have any true input.

It's MY hope that every child is a "wanted" child, but I've seen people keep children in tough situations and find ways to make that work. So a little bit of pressure from the Pro-Life side and the option of adoption thrown in there to me is part of the CHOICE.

Legislation to make as many women barefoot and pregnant is a step backward and against empowering US to have full civil rights and responsibilities.

if you're a liberal arts intellectual, thats ok.

Science, not so much. I see around here all the time.

Especially when talking about medical. Anti vaccine, anti medical science. They're just trying to keep you alive so they can make money off you, there's a cure for cancer "they just won't give it to us."

To a smaller degree just general science, people saying we shouldn't do things, like go to mars, explore the planets because somehow we'll "ruin" them, we never went to the moon because of the van Allen radiation belts.

Science can't do anything, but it can do everything.

are turning away and ignoring the obvious hatred and slander that is filling our public discourse. The last time a Republican acted civil it was John McCain, and we know what the Republican party has done to him.
I blame the Republican leadership, if there is such a thing left, for the creation of what is now pervasive and institutional acceptance of hatred and ignorance.

I think when things were going fine in this country, people had NO IDEA how much civil discourse it took, how much compromise and sucking it up to get the job done there is / was to the political jobs out there.

When you look at the "rules" of the House and Senate, how they call each other "the distinguished gentleman" or "my friend" as Joe Biden called Romney during the debate, people don't GET how especially when we have so much at stake and are so divided about so many issues really DEMANDS that we stick close to the processes our founders set down. Not that they and everything they did was perfection itself, but it's a real good guide to keep us from blowing up at each other long enough to have the required conversations it takes to govern or repair a country.

I wonder if a lot of people just think that all that is required of "free speech" is that they open their mouth and start yapping. In one way that is correct, but irresponsible yapping doesn't really accomplish anything needed.

when they are confronted with how offensive they are to others.
It is a civic duty to point this out to them.

congress, because it had become such an uncivil place. and it is spreading. how it has become so prevalent, I cannot really answer, only to say that I agree with you. Civility these days seems to be regarded as some sort of weakness.

Also smokers and fat people.

There is no evidence of a 'rise in incivility'

Violent crime in the US is at it lowest rates in decades

You and your neighbors aren't being hauled to jail daily for punching each other

Families and neighbors are doubling up living quarters and helping each other economically



Rhetoric from politicians is nothing new. At least no one's getting beheaded

Did you forget the button?

I see SOME evidence to support your viewpoint. However assault and robberies are still very high which drives the overall violence level up even though rape and murder are down.

Do you think that a majority of people are still fairly civil and that we just SEE more of what has always been out there? The people wandering into schools, movie theaters or political rallies with guns as part of a fringe that's always been there, but we just SEE it now because of instant media?

I'm seriously trying to understand your point. I'd like to think the way you do if it's an honestly viable option.


http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2012/june/crimes_061112/crimes_061112

More than Iran and a hard economy, his election signaled a backlash against the move to make things better. Starting in the 50's and through the 70's, our society was changing for the better. Electing reagan was about stopping progress and regressing. Along with a nostalgia for the 50's that never were, racism and sexism became cool again.

We might blame it on television. We might blame it on hate radio of the right.

A good way to look for answers might be to look back a few decades to see how things were then. Television of the fifties/sixties shows a very very different U.S. The culture has "coarsened"; there were more standards of civility and people wanted to appear good and prosperous. Politeness was admired.

I don't have any answers. Just as sex has been commodified, so has rudeness.

By the way, I don't fault Biden for "my friend" -- that just standard lingo for senators.

product sponsorship, of course, meaning the product directly dictated content and standards such as 'don't show those people using our soap'. The shows of that time were untrue to real life, showing even White Straight Married couples as not sharing a bed. When Archie Bunker flushed his toilet, that was the first audible flush on TV.
In the 60's you still could not say the word 'pregnant' on TV. Ok? Seriously...those were NOT the good old days. That was not civility. At least not for all, a preening affectation for the majority perhaps. Not civility.

Those who long for the 1950s don't really seem to remember how ugly that time was for so many people and how backward things were in so many ways. We're well rid of the racism, sexism, and homophobia of those years. We should never long for that past.

I'm also glad that you agree, glad to agree with you on this. I'll take this as yet another sign of increased civility in the world. Peace to you, and good luck in MN election wise and in all things.

turning the state around. I'm hopeful.

as civil rights, somehow.

I grew up in the 50s, so I remember pretty well. Still, the memory of a small town in California where I never once saw a black person as a child because they weren't allowed to live there sort of overrides all of the technological stuff that was missing. The fact that the Hispanic kids went to a different elementary school when I was in first grade is also not a good memory.

We still have many problems in the US with bigotry of all types, but the 50s were so very much worse in that regard that everything else just pales for me.

(in every area) and certainly perpetuates that very thing. Perhaps this goes along with people gaining more freedom to express themselves in ways that used to be unacceptable.

As if trying to simply make it in this economy were not bad enough, an unheard of amount of money is being dumped into the media manipulation of our emotions and it is creating "fight or flight" reactions in people who are not normally equipped to handle high levels of stress. People with anxiety disorders noticed this much earlier (or are medicated to better resist it now). Many people respond to fear with anger.

Sometimes I wonder if we aren't all wired together. That increasing levels of stress and anger don't somehow send a ripple effect through everything. Woo woo stuff.
People can plainly see we are headed down the rabbit hole and the only option we are allowed to consider seems to be keep digging. No end in sight except the end.

Emotions are basically chemical, and we emit detectable amounts of these chemicals when we experience emotions (insects and animals can "smell" our fear, for example). It is possible that we are able to detect these in others ourselves, but not on a conscious level (we aren't trained to smell fear) and react to them. I'm not sure if studies have been done or not.

Keep people angry and stressed, to keep them from thinking or examining the shit they're being bombarded with.

What you wrote seems a little like What Naomi Wolff wrote about in her book Shock Doctrine she wrote in the last few years. Constant stress is not only toxic, but if engineered as part of some agenda to enforce things that people wouldn't otherwise stand for... well... voila! Shock Doctrine all over the place.

if our shorter attention spans are to blame. We are so impatient, waiting in line gets most folks irate.
Could Technology have some influence on this? I've seen groups pile on one person with an idea they dislike, and really say some awful things, seemingly just to be snarky.
Life has just sped up generally, it goes so fast! We hear about any news of any import almost immediately, and several times a day at that! So it feels more unsafe and hostile out there, even though crime rates have dropped.

and he said

look to the right and is that person ugly
look to the left and is that person ugly
and if it ain't one of those two

guess who

btw-there is left and there is right.
right is wrong and left is right

The more it becomes apparent that there is no Afterlife, the more the True Believers try to hide that knowledge from themselves and therefore, the more bitter and disrespectful they become.

We have gone about as far as we can go with physics to explain why the Universe behaves the way it does. The knowledge that we have 'solved' so many equations 'leaks' into the culture, 'infecting' many with depression and denial.

There are a lot of social and economic causes, in my estimation, for the rise in incivility --- but a lot of it has to do with the decline of the middle class and the rise of the corporate state.

And there is more incivility than there used to be, if for no other reason than the now ubiquitous internet gives individuals more places and a broader platform to be bigoted, mean, blustering, etc. No doubt that coupled with hundreds of satellite/cable television channels that spew all kinds of crap, the crassness contained therein spills over into our daily lives everywhere.

And, in my opinion, this incivility is not partisan -- conservatives side with corporations that program and profit from some of the most disgusting television and movie content ever produced; liberals get caught-up in the 'no censorship' side that makes it difficult to say some things are just beyond the pale.

This incivility and crassness in the popular culture gives folks 'permission' to replicate that behavior in everyday life --- especially when there is growing anger and uncertainty over job security, healthcare costs, political deadlock.

I think the more dangerous aspects of this are that average people see Wall Streeters committing crimes and enriching themselves and they get rewarded for their incivility --- why then should they then do anything extra to obey the rules and laws? Ultimately, the democratic process and the economy can collapse when no one believes that they can trust the 'system' anymore and that it simply doesn't work for them.

The liberal-progressive take on this, in my opinion, should be for a reemphasis on respect for other people -- it is not censorship when a person has enough common respect for the sensibilities of other not to be spouting obscenities in the grocery store line or on their t-shirt. It is respectful of others to consider their situation and not park in the the fire lane in front of the store because you think your immediate needs take precedence over everyone else who finds a regular parking spot. (Those are a couple of my personal incivility pet peeves.)

we really only notice the people who are not civil. We don't notice the driver who sees us on the onramp and backs off a bit to make room to merge safely. We notice the one who doesn't and who makes things as difficult as possible. We don't notice all the people who are patient and polite to cash register operators or the people who are careful to keep their shopping carts from blocking the aisle. We notice the ones who don't.

I'm not sure the society is a lot more uncivil than it used to be. I'm not sure it isn't, either. I am sure that it's up to me to be civil in all of those situations, if I expect others to do the same. So, that's what I try to do. I don't always succeed, I'm sure, but I do try.

honestly what has gotten worse is the wider, read worldwide nationwide, coverage of what has gone on forever.

communicating instead of face to face. E.g., people rely increasingly on communication via text, email, and online forums, and people get really really brave behind a keyboard and say things they wouldn't normally say outloud to another human being. Over time, those filters that are lost/absent in online communication translate to filters being lost/absent in face to face communication, and people forget how to be polite.

I notice it all the time, if you speak more kindly and exercise more restraint (e.g., not verbally ripping someone a new asshole every time they deviate even a millimeter from your definition of "right," but instead discussing the points of view with civility and respect), that tends to translate into how you act in real life. If you go around ripping off the heads and shitting down the necks of anyone who dares disagree with you online, eventually you'll start exhibiting the same behavior (verbally) face to face.

Traffic here in DC is actually fairly civil, considering how bad it is.

People are nasty to each other on the net because they can be. Just look at the personal attacks that take place on this site where supposedly people share a general political outlook. It is hard to turn off this attitude so it spreads to the rest of people's interactions in society.

were more respectfull, courteous and all that good stuff.

and it is worldwide. In many Asia cultures, respectfulness and politeness used to be among the most important traditional family values as well as social etiquette.

However, the world has become more liberal in the sense of higher tolerance, including unsavory behaviors (the good goes with the bad). People are less inhibited to display certain type of behaviors. Just like people are less inhibited in sexual behaviors as well.

But I would posit that it is due as much to cultural differences and child rearing practices as anything.

n

If you remember the 1950s, TV shows were about family life with kids getting into "trouble" and a wise parent helping them. When you think about it, "Leave It to Beaver" was a weekly portrayal of the Faust legend: Beav enters into questionable "contract" with Gilbert, Larry, or Lumpy, because of his want for instant pleasures, then realizes his error and with the help of Ward, learns a lesson and finds redemption.

Then the 1960s we had the "goofy" TV shows, like "F Troop," "Beverly Hillbillies," "Green Acres," etc. There was usually one sane person among the zanies.

But in the 1970s we saw the cultivation of the "putdown." Inspired perhaps by Don Rickles "hockey-puck" humor, shows like "All in the Family," "May Tyler Moore" and "M*A*S*H" had casts of reasonably sane characters with one doofus. "Archie Bunker," "Ted Baxter" and "Frank Burns" became the butt of ridicule and the target of the "put down."

Then we had the "filmed before a live audience" shows where the characters hurled insults at each other while the audience laughed hysterically and applauded approval.

I don't know much about TV shows toward the end of the 1970s as I had taken a evening job and lost track of prime-time sitcoms, but I believe, if I recall correctly, that Rush Limbaugh got his start in the early 1980s. And it all went downhill from there...

were the butts of the jokes.

Many versions of the "Faust" classic exist but I was referring to Goethe’s:

from the likes of Rush the pill popper and Fux News

I am blown away by the 24/7 hate/propaganda machine.

1. For starters, I don't advocate for harsh drug penalties.

There's nothing good about drug use. We know it. It destroys individuals. It destroys families. Drug use destroys societies. Drug use, some might say, is destroying this country. And we have laws against selling drugs, pushing drugs, using drugs, importing drugs. And the laws are good because we know what happens to people in societies and neighborhoods, which become consumed by them. And so if people are violating the law by doing drugs, they ought to be accused and they ought to be convicted and they ought to be sent up.

What this says to me is that too many whites are getting away with drug use. Too many whites are getting away with drug sales. Too many whites are getting away with trafficking in this stuff. The answer to this disparity is not to start letting people out of jail because we're not putting others in jail who are breaking the law. The answer is to go out and find the ones who are getting away with it, convict them and send them up the river, too.

Rush Limbaugh - 1995

It's getting easy to spot em ...slow or erratic speed ...weaving ...abrupt lane changes ...no blinkers used ...slow starts from stop lights, ect. Covert racism is coming out in forms of hostility ...the racists are generally pissed off. Lots of people know we are at the end of the easy to get oil and that it dooms any real economic future for this country. Apathy about our involvement in war or fighting in other countries while the poor, sick and elderly die for lack of care. Then there is the general affect of the Jerry Springerization of society. Watch "God Bless America" (Netflix) sometime and see a informative parody of our entertainment system. We love it seems to condemn and or look down on others ...you see it here on DU as well.

The changes in childcare practices over the last century or so, probably has something to do with it. Children spend far less time with adults who are not being payed to look after them now, and far more time with same-age peers. This is a change that was notable forty years ago, and has only become more so in recent years.

Children now grow up knowing how to talk to authority figures and other children, but not anyone in between.

If I accept your premise, I would have to assume there was a golden age of civility. There is no point in American history that I can identify when that would have been.

In the past, your community would have people like me thrown in jail and I never saw that as civil. I can understand how YOU might miss the impact of such past laws against minorities, but bud, it was not civil in your dreamy past. Never was there such a day as you claim there was. The present you live in sounds bad, the past you describe shounds like fantasy.
Perhaps you need to move? Where do you live? Some areas are not as kind as others, that much is a fact. People chat nicely in lines here.

I wish you well.

The straight community used to jail gay people for being gay, this was in my lifetime, probably yours as well. That's just a fact. Not caring to hear that fact does not alter that fact. Jailing minorities for existing, dear one, is so extremely uncivil that it becomes grating to hear that those were the good old days. That it was more 'civil' during those times. It is a bit like seeing a Confederate Flag sticker on a truck. Not worth anger, just makes a person with a brain say 'hmmmmmm'.

Your incivility at claiming that to acknowledge the facts of our uncivil past is to be angry, with you no less.
Cranky people at the store do not make a society less civil than a society that jails minorities for existing. When the majority prevented African Americans from voting, kept women in the kitchen and jailed gay people regularly, society was LESS civil, simply for doing those things.

The world is getting more civil, not less civil, by that standard.
Stinky's 'point' is his to prove, as he cites no evidence or studies, just states what he hears in his neighborhood. His observations do not prove that the world is less civil now. That is not established.
I do think that more equality for gay people, racial minorities and women indicates more civil society, not less. The increased equality is evidence of more civility, that's what I think. It is a tad more important than what one hears in a grocery line in terms of determining civililty. All things considered, I'd much rather see Stinky endure grumblers in the grocery line than see gay people in jail cells or women stuck in the kitchen.

I understand that you are quite bitter about your life experiences and resent any argument that there were happier days, ever, anywhere in our American experience. I get that.

Of course our American experience is not all the same. Some have lived in Dickensian-style poverty and despair. At the same time, some others were living a privileged life of cotillion and Ivy League.

Yes, there was a dreamy past. And yes, it happened for some and not for others. I don't know how to reconcile that fact to your assertion that no one ever had that dreamy past. I have to live with the fact that I wasn't born a Kennedy or a debutante. But I know that there WERE Kennedys and debutantes. I'm not angry about that.

Stinky often self identifies as straight, male and married to Mrs Stinky. The straight community is his community, and that community used to put my community in jail. This is simple fact. I'm white, the white community used to enslave black people. Again, just fact. To deny that whites did what they did would be very wrong. To deny what other groups did to other minorities, also very wrong.
This dreamy past you claim was based on slave labor, then Jim Crow, the disenfranchisement of women, oppression of laboring minorities, Asians, Mexicans, you name it. The same thing is still true, some people have a dreamy present. Mitt and Ann live like fairy tale folk, do they not? And just like the dreamy lives of the past, they built that by taking from others.
Of course in all times, some live a gilded, protected existence which they keep separate from the rest of the world with gates and fences and finance. We have them today, just as we had them in the past. It was not 'better' back when racism and sexism ruled more strongly. It just wasn't. And...to claim that it was is to minimize the vile racism, sexism, homophobia and general ethnic bigotry of the past. 'Sure there were lynchings, but there were also debutants' is an interesting point of view, as long as you grasp that there are still debutants living the deb dream, right here and righ now, just as they used to. Only now, they have to pay the help.
Not sure what you think was more civil back in the 'good old days'. Feel free to offer specifics.

Anyone who thinks there's just suddenly been an increase in incivility is someone who has just recently experienced it for themselves. Lots of us have had the pleasure for years.

' Oh no, I heard a cranky person in line at the store, that's so much worse than restrictive convenants against minority members!'
They pine for a better day that was for themselves alone....

many aspects of American life will improve when we rid the country of the subhuman filth that make up "talk radio"

Tis true that incivility was directed toward "others" in the past - racial minorities, gays, women, so that many of us were unaware of and/or not targets of same. There were boundaries taught to us by parents, teachers and other elders and we always respected our elders. The anonymity of the internet has spilled over into everyday life as we become more and more unable to re-establish some kind of line. But the height, to my thinking, was when Joe Walsh called our President "liar" during his State of the Union speech. That crossed a line and should have awakened us to just how far we had gone, but alas, it has only worsened. Hate speech masquerading as acceptable discourse has given rise to the notion that one can say anything w/ no consequences and has given wackos license to shoot innocent people and shoot at political headquarters because they simply don't realize there are any rules left. Perhaps there aren't

Thanks

where people want to emulate those they deem smarter than themselves. The Limbaughs Michael Savages and Ann Coulters of the world who have made uncivility "cool" for many without the ability to think for themselves.

therefore no one else's opinion or perspective can possibly be worth consideration

Designed to deflect blame from the guilty, and use it as a wedge between various groups to divide and conquor.

In politics, religion, finance, climate change, education, you name it, all areas across the board.

Also I have not seen a rise in incivility.

I am not sure there has ever been so many forms of explicitly violent and insulting entertainment, well since the Roman Colosseum days. Human beings have the capacity to be gentle and civilized--or we can be wild and cruel. It is one paradox of being human--but it is a myth that we have no choice in how to behave. Every time we open our mouths to speak, or decide to type, or act--there is a moment when we have a choice.

Storytelling is the oldest way we have of interpreting our existence in this world--and I think too often we underestimate how powerful it can be, both as a mirror of the times, and in the effect it has on the audience.

The popular archetypes of vampire and werewolf that are so popular right now--are a way of people working out the wildest aspects of our natures. The phenomena of compulsion, of being a willing victim, or of being charmed and controlled by someone have to do with the myth of no personal choice. I find this myth fascinating, why it is so strong right now (amongst so many other myths) --it came to me the other night, that vampires and dark characters are often: sociopathic, charming and beautiful, irresistible, from rich exclusive bloodlines that have ancient vendettas against each other, and it is just a fact that they are here and part of our dystopia. We have 'no choice' but to put up with these dangerous creatures. And we are doomed if we become 'bitten' by them. Myths and stories are very powerful, whether from fiction, non fiction, or formed in the context of news, or through the interpretation of sacred texts.

I think that one aspect of civility as the result of an awareness that power has nothing to do with compulsion, it has to do with the ability to transcend it.

This is a wonderful thread I love discussions like this.

n

popular entertainments were public exectutions and arena based bull or bear baiting, in which a bull dog was placed in a pit with the larger animal, which was chained. It was a fight to the death, and the crowds gambled on the results, which animal would die first, and how...
Public exectutions were also popular entertainment in North America, the State of Michigan became the first English speaking government to outright ban capital punishment because of their disgust at the crowds attending frequent public hangings in Ontario Canada.
In terms of insulting 'enetertainments' we could speak of the Minstrel Show, black face and all, which was the most popular form of staged entertainment in the US for generations. This continued through radio, with Amos n Andy, white guys impersonating white impressions of African Americans, caricatures. Most popular radio show of all time, that.
So I do not agree that entertainment today is more violent and insulting than in the past. I could go on and on about forms of entertainment that would make you ill. The disabled were often displayed by 'owners' for profit, Elephant Man being a famous example of that. We could do this for hours.

have the capacity to be so cruel, you are right of course about the entertainment. Since I worked in ERs most of my life I had a daily dose of blood, and didn't find horror entertaining. I used to wonder about all the people who loved to watch horror, and why over the years it has become more and more realistic.

We are complex creatures, part wild and part tame, and I think to deny our wildness is to put this part of ourselves in shadow--and allow it to control us. I always saw GWB as an example of someone shadow driven--he totally projected his personal shadow onto the world--and was in a position to be very dangerous. Interesting that Romney is also shadow driven--and I think many people sense that he is potentially a very dark character too.

What a subject--we could go on and on about it.

Of course rethugs see themselves as the victims even though their $$$$ are purchasing the means of oppression and we DEMs won't accept victimhood without a fight.

rethugs have been hanging Obama in effigy since before he was elected.

Police are violating our rights to reasonable assembly and against unreasonable search and seizure. They are racially profiling and beating blacks and others for no valid reasons.

Kids are killing their families or walking into schools and shooting random people to vent their rage because their teachers and families are working hard to even retain the right to educate our children and it takes more than one income to keep families off the street.

People are shooting elected officials and anyone in their path based on Palin's advise to never retreat, only reload.

HOW DID WE GET HERE? ARE YOU SERIOUS?

You are upset that we are uncivil?

WHENEVER ANY AMERICAN'S LIBERTIES ARE IMPERILED - SO ARE MINE. Can you see the peril of our civil liberties under Robme, Mr More Money for the 1% and to Hell with the rest of you?

You call it uncivil to say that someone lies, I call it honesty and HIGH TIME FOR IT.

BUT....

BUT....

IT'S ALSO a path we can't fully trod. It's one thing to call the liars out and confront them and make sure they DON'T get elected. But it's another thing to get so fully frenzied that we want to slash and burn our oppressors, even if it only is on the verbal or fictional level. Because once fully on that path, we lose site of the REAL GOALS.

WE NEED TO FOCUS MORE ON OUR TRUE DEMOCRATIC GOALS and what we BELIEVE AMERICA CAN BE AGAIN, rather than on the disaster it has become. WE have to FIGHT HARDER and MORE PEACEABLY THAN EVER BEFORE to achieve our real goals.

WORK FOR: Voter Rights, fight against/prevent voter suppression.

WORK FOR: Election Integrity, fight against/prevent stolen elections.

WORK FOR: Campaign Finance Reform, fight against/prevent corporate take over of America.

WORK FOR: Union Rights, Worker Rights and Civil Liberties, fight against/prevent oppression of people everywhere.

WORK FOR: MADE IN AMERICA, fight against/prevent unfair trade practices.

WORK FOR: Separation of Church and State, fight against those who would combine the two.

WORK FOR: Reasonable Taxation and using the money wisely:
.............................To create a flourishing Common Wealth for everyone to share in and benefit from.
.............................To restore our infrastructure and improve/upgrade our power grid.
.............................To support small and large businesses within reasonable limits.
.............................To get our healthcare situation successfully resolved for everyone.
.............................To address the real danger of Global Warming/Climate Change.

WORK FOR: A DEPARTMENT of PEACE that is effective and MORE BUSY than our WAR Department 99% of the time.




Anyway, just a few thots.

And I personally am prepared and well fortified when such an event happens.

War is Hell, but Peace is the more difficult path.

It's biting your tongue instead of chewing someone out and listening to what they have to say so you can understand their frame of reference even if it doesn't make sense because it's the anti-thesis of your own.

It's putting in years of negotiation that could be "sort of" resolved by a knock down drag out.

I wanted last night to climb through the screen and deliver a beat down on Robme, but feelings like that pass and one moves on to getting the work done to keep America in the DEM zone.

And it has been too long not to push back harder and tale a stand. Thats the way it is sometimes.

school in prayer.

Clowns with fuckin' magnets.

People feel emboldened to express their views bluntly when they are anonymous on the internet.

When someone acts this way in private for awhile it begins to feel normal and the rude behavior bleeds out into their public interactions.

One gets desensitized to it, I suppose. Since I was born in NYC and have lived a lot of my life on Long Island, a mix of incivility and civility is pretty normal to me. Political discourse, however, lost a lot of what civility it had with the advent of Karl Rove, IMHO.

because they behave civilly until the other person "deserves it" because of THEIR incivility.

People don't grasp that real civility means remaining civil especially when you believe you have good reason not to.

i actually had the lady behind the counter at the dry cleaners be rude to me last week and it shook me.

i called her boss the next week. when i returned on Saturday she was much more pleasant.

maybe the answer is to act kindly to folks around you and maybe it will grow! if someone is rude, be nice. let the old man go in front of you in line (i do that a lot for folks) they always act shocked but i know it makes their day and hopefully they will pass if forward.

C'mon, Stinky. You already knew this.

I have posted before about the social dominance theory:

in a sneering disrespectful tone of voice and he was lauded by the media and everyone for that. I remember he was like that all thru his presidency and no one ever called him on it. After that it's just filtered into all of society as each "leader" since has been even less civil.

It's believed that, in this society, if you want something, you should just take it regardless of the consequences or how much it might hurt someone else. This is why we are a bitter, angry, impatient, mean society that consists of people who only live to have a perceived superiority over others. We only care about our own well-beings, and everybody else who can't be exploited for our own benefit is simply in our way.

If we all had more compassion, understanding and love we wouldn't need war.

I've always tried to live my life by life's golden rule "Treat others the way you want to be treated"

The rise of Ronald Reagan and Cable News (which needed to fill a 24 hour news cycle).

I agree with your examples but think there is even more. I still believe the movie 'Wall Street', and the character 'Gordon Gecko', are excellent examples of the times and changing attitudes. The do anything and say anything to win and make no apologies.

I am not one of those people who think Ronald Reagan was a kinder and gentler republican. He was a mean and ruthless man who despised the poor and did his best acting job pretending he was a kind old president.

Insult your friends and loved ones.
Be shallow and totally self-absorbed
Kill everyone that gets in your way.


I do actually believe that society learns from its popular mass forms of entertainment how to behave towards one another.

During the eighties people wanted to live and behave like rich snobs and raised their kids like rich snobs.Parents who think their kids are too good to say "thank you" ,"may I" ,"excuse me" or "I'm sorry". It was fashionable to be a yuppie, buppie, or some version. It was fashionable to take on the demeanor of the rich which meant stepping on the peasants and pretending they didn't matter. I have seen it in every group you can name and that includes poor people imagining they are rich.

The very thought of saying thank you to a "server" or cashier was a no no. In order to make them feel better many establishments thought up new names for their employees. People became "barristas", sanitation engineers to describe maintenance workers, and other fancy names to describe blue collar jobs.

Add to that the notion that nothing is ever a person's own fault and you have a society filled with self inflated egos and people who never think they can do anything wrong.

with very little social safety net, and a 24/7 drumbeat from the rightwing media on why you should hate your neighbor/hate the poor. I'll bet there's not as much incivility in first-world countries where losing your job doesn't mean losing access to health care, losing your home, etc.

What Would George Do?
http://www.history.org/Almanack/life/manners/rules2.cfm
Colonial Manners

Based on the Exercise of a Schoolboy*
George Washington, sometime before the age of 16, transcribed Rules of Civility & Decent Behaviour In Company and Conversation. (Original errors in numbering have been corrected; original spelling is unchanged.)

More emphasis on looking out for Number One--more self-absorption. Less emphasis on manners with each generation.

in Arkansas.

Follows a fairly regular pattern.

the major developed countries.

But we're supposed to be "civil" while we put each out on the street in this blood-n-guts existential economic battle we're all supposed to be locked in?

Good luck with that!

...the RW cannot stand the fact that a black man sits in the White House. It seems to me that everything stems from that.

-Paige

If there is any sense of community or togetherness, that will create a climate where left-wing ideas can flourish. But as long as we are separated and all "on our own" that's the proper social landscape for the right-wing agenda.

Nowdays, you can pretty much ignore anyone you don't want to include in your personal reality at a shallow, reactive level - live in a bubble where there is actually very little to do, since everything - and everyone - has "a price tag", and is pretty much disposable once purchased. That includes intellectual property, health, charity, friends, family...
There is always someone who has more purchasing power, and they end up in the front of the line.
Reality bubbles, instant gratification and everything "owned" equals passively cynical self-interest, and anger when one can't get what one wants.

So the average person may feel a disadvantage in get along with other people or consider their well-being or the world around them when they act - and even if they did act in a more expansive manner, there's always someone else out there playing a bully's game with them to get what little there is left.

The question really is - Where does the line between incivility and self-defense from aggressive bullies lie?
Is it uncivil to call a bully a bully? Is it uncivil to act in self-preservation?

Haele

Mind you, politics were never really all that civilized to begin with. I spend a lot of time reading 18th and 19th Century political materials, and what got said to and about opposition politicians would never ever fly in contemporary America. We may think the Rush Limbaughs and Ann Coulters are beyond the pale, but believing so simply proves just how far we've come. Even the 20th Century had its Red Scares and McCarthyite eras, where the worst things imaginable were believed and spread about anyone who opposed your ideology. Perhaps they weren't doing it on television, but the whisper campaigns were used to great effect, and conventions thrived on believing every vile lie about your opponent.

So, politically, we're probably a bit better these days.

Socially, I honestly believe it's the Internet. The Internet just doesn't have the same reinforcing factors general socialization requires. You can say what you want to who you want, and what kind of trouble will you ever get in? Worse, there's a kind of momentum that comes with anti-social behavior. There are entire popular message boards and websites dedicated to behavior that any parent would be horrified to find their child engaging in.

Proper adult socialization requires us to inhibit our thoughts, words, and feelings for the sake of lubricating our relationships. The Internet renders that moot. In fact, the internet will reward you with attention, peers, and praise if you find the right nook.

I don't think it's coincidental that the expansion of the Internet has seen a rise in un-PC humor, where racist, sexist, and homophobic jokes find large audiences among youth. Think of the Daniel Toshes of the world.

Look at yahoo comment sections after news stories. Check out right-wing blogs. Heck, look at DU. These are full of people screaming whatever they want to whoever they want in ways they never would if the people they were talking to were present in the same room.

This Freedom of the Tantrum online has become so ubiquitous, it's starting to seep into our offline culture. Online, people have always felt free to be uncivil. And hey, not having those inhibitions feels good. People get in the habit of being nasty and rude.

Well, there's no such thing as separate personalities. How you are Online reflects upon who you are Offline.

I think we're really starting to see that more and more. The world is full of jerks, but until the Internet celebrated jerkery, a lot of people kept their jerk-aspect under wraps. Now, we celebrate it.

It is what it is.

Bush and Dick Cheney. Your reason.

nt

Why whatever do you mean?

I credit Nixon with leading us down the path to incivility in politics. Nixon was the father of two great American myths:
The media is controlled by the far left.
"Liberal" is a dirty word.
Before JFK was assassinated, he and Goldwater were talking about touring the country together in 1964 and hold old-fashioned, one-one-one debates. They actually liked and respected one another; they simply had very different views of the world.
JFK was quoted as saying, "Well, if it's Goldwater, if we lose at least it will be on the issues."
Nixon and his fellow felon VP, Agnew, were very pivotal in turning political discourse into slash-and-burn, take-no-prisoners campaigns.

i just moved to the angriest city in the U.S. according to some stupid study, and everyone seems pretty nice.

Also, the music starts to suck and there are less hills to walk uphill on.

No. Those are NOT my driving habits. And if those are your driving habits, I'm not getting in a car with you a second time. Road rage is a sign of a personality disorder, not of a decline of civilization.