that would destroy the R's for 2 generations.

I heard him say $25K last night. $17K probably failed in focus groups.

Actually I got it wrong above. The standard deduction will still be there, and all of the others will too, only the total will be limited, which should tell anyone in the top end of however you bracket a quarter-million income you will be the first to pay more.

it won't help people with monster medical bills...especially after he shitcans ACA.

Let's say a person has gross income of $100,000. Lowering their marginal tax rate by 20% would cut the tax owed by about $2000. If their total deductions are less than $25K, they save a little money, but they that increases the deficit.

If their total deductions, including standard deduction, are above about $30K, then they end up paying more total tax.

I just don't get the point of any of this. If you are still keeping the deductions in place, what is the point?

The point, of course, is to keep changing the tax rates, because every time you do that, you can slip in more advantages for the top 1%

It all ends up at NO CHANGE for the wealthy and a knife in the back for everyone else.

"Hey, look over there. We're changing the marginal tax rates. And we'll make sure that the wealthy keep paying what they are already paying on those marginal tax rates."

And while you are looking at the margin tax rates, they continue to keep in place -- or even lower -- the special millionaire's tax rate of 15%. This goes under the helpful-sounding name of "capital gains tax" but in fact has become the main took for the millionaires and billionaires to avoid paying taxes that the rest of us have to pay.

Please note that famous lefty, Ronald Reagan RAISED that rate to be equal to rate paid by people who work for a living, because people who sit on their asses for a living shouldn't pay a lower rate than those who bust their butts every day.

Also note that under Clinton, this rate was 20%, and that will revert to 20% on January 1. This is really the big issue why Republicans are holding out for all-or-nothing. Billionaires don't give a shit what the top regular-person rate it because they never pay that. They pay the cap gains rate -- or nothing at all if they are good at sheltering their income through a web of fake corporations, Enron-style.

And also note that the Ryan budget takes Cap Gains to ZERO -- i.e. millionaires and billionaires pay nothing, nada, zilch under the Ryan plan. I'm not sure Romney has taken a specific position about cap gains. If he has, it will change a dozen times. Mainly he is talking about this 20% cut in regular-person rates to keep our attention off the real game.

Rmoney is good at that. Hope he can't evade the Sensata story--now being covered on CNN! Obama was so on target last night when he pooh-poohed Mitt's 5 point plan and said it was a one point plan to maintain and improve the status quo for the rich. Also agreed that Mitt is lying about his tax plans. He'll say anything and do as he wishes. He's incapable of understanding the needs of the common folk.

Higher itemized deductions mostly benefit rich people.

But going through all that rigamarole just to hit a limit seems like a waste of time. Just

1. Get rid of itemized deductions (except for catastrophic health care costs)
2. increase the standard deduction
3. bring back the "making work pay" credit

like I said before http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/151

They are able to hide their money in complex Enron/Bain-style corporations. This gives them full use of their money, but they don't have to pay any personal taxes on it at all.

And then if they ever need to take the money out of the corporations, the most they pay is the special billionaire's rate of 15% (capital gains).

They simply never use the regular income tax schedule for the bulk of their income, and their itemized deductions are mostly irrelevant. Romney has a special scam with the huge multinational corporation known as the Mormon church. He funnels money into that enterprise, and personally benefits from all sorts of business deals, such as Marriott and the SLC Olympics -- and it is all deductible as a charity. Sweet.

I've reached a point in my career at which I'm able to "defer salary". I don't use it, I have kids to put through college.

But if I was already wealthy, I'd defer that salary, and it would go into my ESTATE. I'd never touch it. And that wealth would pass to my heirs with either a minimal tax or, if the GOP gets its way NO TAX AT ALL. It would never get taxed.

It would pass from heir to heir, never taxed. And when you are that wealthy, you can get incredible loans where the interest rate is next to NOTHING.

Set up a charitable trust, have your kid work for that trust, funnel your money through that charity.

The tax dodges are endless. Which is why Mitt does not want to show his tax returns.

and doing so saves them a fair amount of money

"321,294 filers make over $1,000,000, and almost 97% of them itemize their deductions. They are .28% of all adult taxpayers, but they get almost 11% of the total deductions. Since they pay at the highest rates, their deductions are also worth more. They get $141.6 billion in deductions whereas their standard deductions would be no more than $4 billion. Their itemized deductions are thus worth about $45 billion or about $141,000 per household."

Most of it gets sheltered or else is reported under cap gains.

Yeah, when you are bringing in hundreds of millions a year, you will have lots of deductible expenses too.

And correct me if I am wrong (not being a billionaire), you can use deductible expenses to offset the income you report under cap gains, right? Indeed, that is how Romney got to 14%. He reported virtually all of his income as cap gains (using the carried interest loophole) at 15% and then took that number down with his "charity" payments to the Mormon church.

Most of his income already IS capital gains and dividends. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1167192

total income $21 million, including dividends $4.9 million and capital gains $12.6 million.

When you have $120 million in net worth, the amount that is not in houses or land, gets invested and provides dividend and capital gains income. Heck, even the houses and land often get sold for a large profit.

isn't it?