I have no control over what it is invested in.

The same goes for federal employees including the President.

"I have no control over where the state decides to invest the funds. I wish I did."

how can you say a particular investment vehicle (like one that has shipped jobs to china, for example), is wrong or bad for america, but still benefit from the very same type of investment

ETA: Can you post it here?

i don't have much choice. i have to choose from various funds. every single one of them includes a company i would prefer not to invest in. there are not even any green companies for me to choose to put my money. i wish that would change. so you might tell him that, maybe you don't deliberately invest in any company that is not a "good" corporate citizen.

Ask them also to check to see what the market did while democrats where in off ice compared to the republicans

it hasn't been growing much since then either, but at least I'm not in negative territory.

That should shut them up.

that's also why everyone who is willing to work for a living deserves a guaranteed pension

it's damn near impossible to save enough for retirement in individual accounts. the 1%ers have the markets rigged

my company stopped a defined n benefit pension and started a 4021k with matching contributions the year I arrived. Then when the recession hit, they quit the matching contributions. Thank goodness my husband has a union pension or I would be SOL.

Romney gets to call shots, the little people don't.

that those with a defined contribution plan have benefitted mostly from Democratic administrations and lost the most with Republican administrations. And that if you began investing when Obama took office you've nearly doubled your money since then.

CALPERS "2% at 55" tier 1 retirement benefits. Defined benefit, for life, with survivor benefits, lifetime health insurance, etc. When anyone suggests that any sort of personal savings/investment retirement plan is best, I ask whether they know of ANY such plans that offer as much as my public employee pension benefit. It is the benchmark that every American's retirement plan should be measured against.

Every American worker should have a pension benefit similar to mine. Every single one.

but my friend likes to challenge me saying that the plan invests in the same sort of vehicles that i find abhorrent, that invest in shipping jobs overseas

how do you address that?

A great, great many people have been cleaned out, and cannot rebuild their savings. Capital gains? That's a hoot when house values have plummeted...what's the point of selling?

It's bullshit. A coat of butter to lube up the idea that all these tax breaks are going to benefit the 1%...and maybe you, too, if you ever get a savings account again.

I'm assuming he's making the point that your pension, and Obama's pension, has investments in companies that outsource to China...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

Tu quoque ( /tuːˈkwoʊkwiː/),[1] (Latin for "you, too" or "you, also&quot or the appeal to hypocrisy, is a logical fallacy that attempts to discredit the opponent's position by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with that position; it attempts to show that a criticism or objection applies equally to the person making it. This dismisses someone's point of view based on criticism of the person's inconsistency, and not the position presented.[2] Thus, it is a form of the ad hominem argument.[3]

Last edited Thu Oct 18, 2012, 04:07 PM - Edit history (1)

i will have to mull that one...

definitely too intellectual for my friend to wrap his head around though

makes me feel so much better

the Cayman Islands creates jobs in the US. Because that's what the super rich will do with Romney's tax cuts.

Romney's investments in the Caymans and in China are not passive investments ... Romney SELECTED them.

This is why he won't show his tax returns.

Holding a pension, or a 401k that invests in a variety of investments is very different than ACTIVELY selecting specific investments OUTSIDE your pension .... and that is how Romney and the super rich will invest their tax savings.

helps to diffuse the ad hominem attack that it is as described by backscatter712 in #15

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021574657#post15

have you noticed that it's worth almost twice as much now than it was after gw and the banksters got through with it?

this is one thing that really baffles the shit out of me. people are doing better. so few (all lousy) reasons i can even think of for someone to believe that a change at this point would be a good idea:

1. racism
2. greed: somehow these rich fucks think they'll get even richer once romney guts their tax bill; don't any of them GET that dirt poor people are not good consumers???
3. taxes - see greed.

sigh.

They're back and doing fine. Why in hell would I want to go back into another republican recession and watch my life savings go down the drain again?

She is worried that if Obama wins the election that the capital gains tax will be raised.

I pointed out that I have always done better in the market with a democrat president. Then I asked which is better, a lot more capital gains with a slightly higher tax, or lower capital gains with the capital gain tax we're paying now? She answered by saying, maybe we should change the subject.

She's a great financial adviser, but lousy when it comes to politics. I know she is very religious and I think her religion is why she thinks the way she does.

easy to digest and supportable with those pesky "facts"

thanks

... (1) his company - Bain - has actively participated in outsourcing jobs to China and elsewhere, and

(2) He has a so called "blind trust" - a purely politically motivated dodge in his case - that invests his holdings in Chinese businesses and companies that do business with the Chinese.

rMoney is a bad man because of number (1) since he actively harmed American workers for $, but he is no different from anyone else with pension investments with respect to number (2) - (assuming the trust is genuinely blind). Its a global economy now, and where your pension chooses to invest your money is largely beyond your control.

If your CPA friend can't understand the difference between those two concepts, I would not highly recommend his financial services.

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Tell him to go ahead and look at his investments.

Then check your property values.

And don't forget about those bank and credit card fees that were outlawed a couple years ago, nobody pays those anymore.

They might have a point under GW Bush who stared with a DJIA of 10,471 and ended his presidency with a DJIA of 7949, which of course means Obama started with a DJIA of 7949 and as of this post the DJIA is sitting around 13,534.

Your friend is a moron!

and Obama fixed it without A SHRED of help from republicans.