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Tommy_Carcetti

(43,219 posts)
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:22 PM Oct 2012

The ironic thing about the Electoral College.

It is arguably the one thing that can be claimed to be both constitutional and unconstitutional, all at the same time.

It is constitutional in that it is mandated by the U.S. Constitution.

It is unconstitutional in that it arguably violates the equal protection clause. For example, I live in Florida, the fourth most populous state in the country. My state gets 29 electoral votes. Wyoming is the least populous state in the country. It gets 3 electoral votes. I vote. Someone from Wyoming votes. In fact, two people have voted. However, given the electoral situation in both states, my vote is given more weight than someone in Wyoming. So in essence, my vote "counts" more and this would violate the equal protection clause but for the fact that the electoral college is already written into the constitution.

Even though I'm the benefactor in this situation, I still find this to be rather unfair.

17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The ironic thing about the Electoral College. (Original Post) Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2012 OP
The ironic thing about the EC is that stopbush Oct 2012 #1
Actually your vote counts the same Peregrine Oct 2012 #2
Electors who, in most circumstances, are pledged to abide by their state's popular vote. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2012 #13
Florida has 19 Million People, Wyoming has one half a million people 1-Old-Man Oct 2012 #3
that's the way I look at it d_r Oct 2012 #6
Yes, except you're not the benefactor: your vote counts less Proud Public Servant Oct 2012 #4
So doesn't the Senate also violate the Equal Protection Clause? Nye Bevan Oct 2012 #5
No, you have it backward. Pab Sungenis Oct 2012 #7
Thanks--didn't think of it that way before. Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2012 #12
It is past time to get rid of the Electoral College Angry Dragon Oct 2012 #8
Do you think it is guardian Oct 2012 #14
No Angry Dragon Oct 2012 #15
Different situation Tommy_Carcetti Oct 2012 #16
Generally, a specific constitutional provision trumps Hosnon Oct 2012 #9
It gets worse if the electoral vote is tied Retrograde Oct 2012 #10
The ironic thing about our entire electoral system is that it was both the first and worst devised. Egalitarian Thug Oct 2012 #11
Sorry, you have it exactly the wrong way around. JackRiddler Oct 2012 #17

stopbush

(24,397 posts)
1. The ironic thing about the EC is that
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:28 PM
Oct 2012

it was put into place by the Founders as a safety valve in case the unwashed masses made a big mistake by popularly electing a person whom the ruling class felt was unfit to serve. It gave the elites a way to step in and overturn the sentiment of the people.

What's ironic is that today, it's the elites - ie: rich Rs - who seem the most-annoyed with the EC.

Peregrine

(992 posts)
2. Actually your vote counts the same
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:28 PM
Oct 2012

because you are not voting for president/vice president. You are voting for electors for the electoral college who will meet later to vote for president and vice president.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,219 posts)
13. Electors who, in most circumstances, are pledged to abide by their state's popular vote.
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 01:24 PM
Oct 2012

So in the end, it's pretty much the same.

1-Old-Man

(2,667 posts)
3. Florida has 19 Million People, Wyoming has one half a million people
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:30 PM
Oct 2012

Your 29 votes are diluted by 19 million voters, or one per 655,000 voters. The Wyoming population of half a million divided by its 3 electoral votes gives them one per 166,000 people, or about three times the representative power of yours.

d_r

(6,907 posts)
6. that's the way I look at it
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:34 PM
Oct 2012

I get the op's point, that a democratic vote in Florida is worth more to democrats than a democratic vote in Wyoming. That's pragmatic. But I think about it in terms of votes not being equal between different states because of the electoral college system. We don't have equal inputs.

Proud Public Servant

(2,097 posts)
4. Yes, except you're not the benefactor: your vote counts less
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:34 PM
Oct 2012

As a Floridian, you get one electoral vote for ever 654,000 residents. Your Wyoming counterpart gets 3 electoral votes for his states 564,000 residents. Thus, while your state's voites count more in the EC than Wyoming's, your vote actually counts less, since your state gets significantly fewer electoral votes per person.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
5. So doesn't the Senate also violate the Equal Protection Clause?
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:34 PM
Oct 2012

Since Florida and Wyoming each send two senators to Washington?

 

Pab Sungenis

(9,612 posts)
7. No, you have it backward.
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 12:35 PM
Oct 2012

In 2008, Florida had 8.3 million voters and 27 electoral votes. Wyoming had 248,000 voters and 3 electoral votes.

So in 2008 a vote in Florida actually had slightly more than one quarter the weight of a vote in Wyoming.

The Electoral College disproportionately favors the Western Red States and needs to be abolished.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,219 posts)
12. Thanks--didn't think of it that way before.
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 01:23 PM
Oct 2012

Either way you look at it, it stinks.

And yes, if President Obama manages to win re-election via an electoral vote technicality, I'll gladly accept the result, but I'd still advocate for abolishing the thing in the future. It never seemed fair or practical to me.

Angry Dragon

(36,693 posts)
15. No
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 02:32 PM
Oct 2012

I look at them as two very different things.
When the Constitution was written information was either letters, face-to-face or perhaps newspapers.
Times have changed. Instant information age. Education for almost everyone.

The people are the country, so the power should rest with them.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,219 posts)
16. Different situation
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 03:16 PM
Oct 2012

Representative democracy and the legislative process comes into play regarding Senators.

Whereas with the electoral college, it's just unnecessary hurdles thrown in the way of what should be direct democracy and the elective process.

Hosnon

(7,800 posts)
9. Generally, a specific constitutional provision trumps
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 01:04 PM
Oct 2012

a general one (when they conflict).

So the EC would likely survive an Equal Protection challenge.

Retrograde

(10,165 posts)
10. It gets worse if the electoral vote is tied
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 01:06 PM
Oct 2012

Then the election of the president goes to the House, where each state gets 1 vote. The 35,000,000 Californians have just as much say as the 500,000 Wyomingites.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
11. The ironic thing about our entire electoral system is that it was both the first and worst devised.
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 01:12 PM
Oct 2012

No matter which candidate wins, a large minority, or occasionally a majority, goes unrepresented.

There are several workable (and working) alternative systems, but our irrational deification of this seriously flawed system keeps it going.

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
17. Sorry, you have it exactly the wrong way around.
Fri Oct 26, 2012, 04:47 PM
Oct 2012

The Wyoming vote counts much more than yours!

Wyoming: 400,000/3 = 133,333 pop. per electoral vote.

Florida: 18,801,310/29 = 648,321 pop. per electoral vote.

Wyoming vote is worth 5 (4.8) times a Florida vote!

On senators, even more obvious:

Wyoming: 200,000 people per senator.

Florida: 9.4 million people per senator.

Wyoming vote is worth FORTY-SEVEN times a Florida vote.

If we were preparing a legal suit we'd have to find precise Census counts of eligible electorate and registered voters and show the figures for those, but obviously they'd be similar outcomes.

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