suicidal thoughts most of my life and still daily I wake up thinking, "f' another f'ing day." before I yank my attitude around and make the best of it...

There is nothing hateful about your feelings here. Suicide, particularly with adults, is a personal choice, a personal weighing of factors wherein tomorrow isn't worth the effort. I haven't committed suicide obviously and haven't attempted in very long time, but those that know me, know to let me be there, let me talk about it, ... even my children grew up knowing mother might and that it would never be a reflection on them but a reaction to the bizarre and black/grey cloud life that seems inevitable for me. So even with my children, now grown, but even before that, I've been free to discuss to comment even to say, today is one of those days, and know that none, and I mean NONE of the usual hateful and guilt-forcing remarks would come from those I spoke with. That alone has probably helped keep me alive.

Demonizing suicide will nearly always guarantee it, imo.

You are fine.
Hugs!

However bleak things are, to have the love you have and people close who care is a wonderful thing.

I struggle every day. The only thing that really keeps me here is my kids, I would hate to leave them. So why are we like that? I'm not even depressed, I just loathe humanity and the greedy fuckers who ruin it for every body (not to mention the morons, etc) and I get very down on people and whether they will ever act for the good of all of them or continue to allow a few asses to ruin it for everybody.

entirely ruin my children to the same dysfunctional self-images, social confusion, etc. that I was dealing with and was determined to not let that happen. So I had to stick around. I married my mother's personality, very, very hatefully manipulative. I guess I figured at least he didn't beat me as my father did, but after a while when it got turned on to my children, I stood up and put an end to it for me and the kids by getting rid of him. Now I'm not sure why I stick around, though I keep nudging along, mostly being an optimist after about 9:30am each day till about 1:am each night. From 7am to 9am, full of "just shoot me in the head", amd from 1am till I fall asleep around 3am it's "please can I f'ing just not wake up tomorrow, please." I have no idea who I ask the later of, but it's what runs through my head. And I do have a gun and some day, I may just use it. I find a great deal of comfort knowing I have the power to be done with this f'd up world at the time of my choosing if it doesn't happened by other means first.

I agree that's not a popular position but some souls just weren't meant to endure in our tortured excuse of a society.



I am so sorry for you though. The fall-out on support persons is hell......

There are too many stories of people who have been suicidal, but they are now thriving. We need to reach out and show that however bleak things may seem, their feelings may change or their lives might change beyond recognition. Life is a precious gift, and those who are tortured or overwhelmed need to know that it may not always be this way, through chance alone or guidance or intervention, they could discover wonderful things they never dreamed of.

suicidal individuals are trying to "escape" as you put it. You seem to imply that every suicidal person is trying to escape from the same thing, and that's not true. And to say life is a precious gift??? WTF. From whom is it a precious gift, and let's see, look up Ridley, a two year old who died in Houston about two decades ago due to severe abuse from her parents. So if she had lived and the parents not been found out, (as bad as her abuse was, it is possible to live through such abuse and for parents to never be stopped. I know because as I read what her parents put her through, I thought, jeez the lucky girl at least she died at two and didn 't have to continue to live through it for 16 years like I did, as my abuse was nearly identical), how precious do you think her life would've felt to her.

I can tell you, not very precious at all. My ire is getting up now which is becoming much too evident. I need to leave this OP for a while, the ignorant remarks from people whose lives were apparently "precious" is sickening me.

I cannot with any type of conscience have a viable opinion regarding advice.

Which is exactly my point in the above post. This idea that suicidal folks are all suffering from the same thing. We don't. For some it is mental illness, for others perhaps substance abuse, then there are some whose lives just show no reasonable sign of improvement in the near enough future to be worth the effort. Some are simply weaker individuals (not a negative comment just a reality) who cannot find the strength to overcome the adversities being thrown at them. We cannot simply say that there are other ways to escape, nor can we clump together everyone under the idea that "someday" things "might" be better because it's just as likely that they will get worse.

Just not the right perspective, imo.

I don't think that life is so bad that death is the answer. There must be help available for those who need it.

UNLESS

it is an end-of-life issue. I had a very dear friend who had ALS. She lived in Holland at the time. The disease affected the upper part of her body and she lost her ability to swallow, speak and was having difficulties breathing. She told me that her ultimate end would be like strangling to death. She was afraid of this struggle more than she feared death. We had many discussions about suicide. She was definite that she wanted to do it but her sons (adults) were initially against it. She first thought of doing it herself but thought that the trauma of her sons discovering her body would be unfair to them. She finally decided to participate in Holland's death with dignity provision. After discussions with doctors and her family, she and her sons (adults) went to the hospital where she quietly and painlessly ended her life with the assistance of doctors.

Which means we here in the US will never see the light of day on that.

Oregon made it legal some years ago, Washington more recently.

2 good reasons to considre moving back there.....sorta.

One who feels it will try anything, literally anything, to escape it. Alcohol, other chemicals, anything. When one is facing such exquisite, concentrated, enormous, insurmountable pain, death feels like a welcome relief, a final escape.

"being happy" is not even in the equation. "Not wanting to die, while wanting to die" is a bigger deal. Choosing death is not an attractive option for anyone, but it can seem to be a solution.

Brains don't want to kill the holder of such. They will spend hours and hours, sleepless nights, sluggish days, trying to find an alternative, but death is always out there as a final way out.

If you work in one of those places, I'm shocked at your lack of education and empathy.

If you work in one of those places, I'm shocked at your lack of education and empathy.




wow.

...and, by definition, it will elicit strong reactions from many.

I stand by my OP and don't find it necessary to explain myself further.

So it is hard to say physical pain isn't as bad as psychological pain. Having experience of both, I do know that chronic physical pain is debilitating. It takes over every thought, the constant throbbing, shooting pains, the effect of long term use of pain medication, the impact on mobility. It can drag a person down into depression. There is no quality of life.

I also live w chronic pain and depression. Its like the chicken and the egg. Am I depressed because of the pain, is the pain worsened because of the depression? You feel like your life is controlled by how bad the pain is that day. I hate being dependent on pain medication to get out of bed in the morning. Somedays life is unbearable.

and you had emotions for every one of those people, you would probably end up doing what they did, committing suicide.

It's not a response made out of choice, it's an emotional response by the brain trying to protect itself.

I have some experience with it, being in and out of shrinks offices for the better part of my life because of depression and compulsive obsessive disorder.

Imagine that this will have a tremendous impact on the other patients in your care as well. Sending positive thoughts for all of you impacted by this.

"When you recognize that there is a voice in your head that pretends to be you and never stops speaking, you are awakening out of your unconscious identification with the stream of thinking. When you notice that voice, you realize that who you are is not the voice — the thinker — but the one who is aware of it." ~ Eckhart Tolle

Killed herself on August 28, 2012. The day before her 50th birthday. She had become a tortured soul.The death of her daughter a year before was the last blow in her life ... it made happiness (however fleeting it may be) impossible for her.

I miss you Mitzie.

Suicide sucks.

The loss of a loved one is too hard to get over. To lose a child.. I don't want to even imagine. I am sorry you have lost your best friend. I lost my best friend and I wi ll never get over it.

This is something I am just becoming able to talk about

Yes, it was a relief for her, but not a relief from how she could have felt in the future. She had issues and with enough resources, surely she could have improved her bad feelings and turned her life around. It is a terrible waste of a young life who should have had a lot to work with.

Seriously. The OP clearly knew the young life, you didn't. You cannot make that judgement somehow better than the OP.

It's people like you that would push me over the edge if I had to listen to you when I was at my edge. What bullshit.

Life is hard for many of us, life is entirely unrewarding for many of us, life has been full of unrecoverable abuse for many of us. For you to say you know better than the OP much less the young woman who took her life is insulting and ignorant.

nephew of mine for many years (emotionally) through his bipolar episodes, depression, alcoholism, and extremely difficult times. He felt abused and neglected by his parents, (although there was no physical abuse) he came to dislike both of them intensely. I never said to him, "you shouldn't feel like that". To deny him his feelings would have been insulting.
I did talk to him about his chemical addiction to alcohol, and after years, he is sober.. for about 8 years now. He finally found a wonderful woman to share his life with and they are very happy, and I am extremely happy for both of them. I said to him often, "don't worry, some of us are late bloomers".

He will always have bouts of serious depression, I know that. One day at a time.

I suppose "relief" is as good a word as any for the self justification of suicide, but it doesn't quite feel right. Though I never got as far as the attempt, I do remember eyeing the kitchen knives from time to time thinking it wouldn't be so bad.

I think a big part of the issue is our current health care system. While I know you can't save everybody, and not everyone's depression has the same cause, our profit driven health care system is a real hurdle for a lot of people. Even if you are lucky enough to get free care through charity (or school in my case), or wealthy enough to afford it, you still have the drug companies and other money making interests muddying the field. If a more focused and less profit driven approach could be taken towards mental health (and this really applies to many other physical illnesses too), maybe more suicides and destructive behaviors could be prevented.

for suicide attempts, I agree with you. My suicidal tendencies are, for the most part, in the past. I still suffer from depression and I still have the thoughts. My sister-in-law killed herself after several attempts. I didn't say anything so as not to offend the family, but I thought it was a relief for her.

I can't figure that out. In countries where people have nothing, and watch their babies die on the side of the road as they try to get to the food centers, they do not seem to have high suicide rates. Seems the highest rates are for the countries that "have everything" in terms of the rest of the world. I'm always puzzled by this. Truly... why is it so high here?

In those areas, possibility is nil and reality reflects it, so the discrepancy doesn't exist.

In societies where possibility exists for some but not others, for these others reality just never approaches possibility causing depression.

BTW I am not nor have I ever been clinically depressed, and yet have been suicidal all of my known life. Go figure. Sometimes suicide can be arrived at logicially and has little to do with emotion. For example the individual in jail not wanting to remain there for life, or a person not wanting to experience the painful death of cancer or the debilitation of alzheimers, etc. To assume all suicidal folks are depressed is uninformed.

If a person lives in a really horrible place where food or medical care is hard to find, then a suicidal person can simply give up and it will look like they starved to death or some minor medical problem wasn't treated in time.

doesn't mean you can make yourself feel something. I've had a mild form of depression and severe anxiety since my mom died when I was 3. When I got married and had a child I knew I was suppose to be happy but I wasn't. I've learned to live with a certain degree of happiness. I love my husband. We have been married 18 years. He is my best friend and my soul mate. I adore my children, but there is always a nagging sadness. For me, it's like yin and yang. The sadness is always there but I am also happy and grateful.

I think they are fooling themselves. You know, fake it till you make it attitude.

(suicides per 100.000 pop. rate)
South Korea is #2.

see here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

Those countries that have nothing probably don't have the resources to keep track of people committing suicide, so the numbers are skewed.

On the other hand, the United States has gotten away from the extended family unit and a sense of community. I think it would be good for people if we went back to a time of extended families, knowing your neighbors and people in the area you live in.

I say this as a person who really doesn't care for any of it, it's just an observation of people.

I know what it's like to hit bottom and think there is nothing to live for. I've been there more times than I want to think about.

The gal was just 26 and I'm sure she had so much potential in for her life if she could have fought instead of giving up. Giving up is easier and it's horrible to think people become so desperate they want to throw their life away.

A side note: I live in South Korea and the suicide rate here is very high. My wife works at an elementary school and one of the students wrote "I want to die" on a test. My wife went to her homeroom teacher and told her. I said that I thought the school should have a psychologist talk to her as they would be more qualified. My opinion is that you have to take that kind of situations seriously. The other day my wife told me some woman jumped off a roof somewhere in Seoul and she fell and hit another person killing them. So she not only took her life, but killed someone else in the process.

and while I do believe that suicide probably relieves the suffering of those afflicted I railed against it mainly for my children(well and for myself as well. I didn't want to lose him either). I told him he was not allowed to leave our children. I know it's not my place to tell him what he's allowed or not allowed to do, but I had my children in mind when I said it. It would forever scar them. My mom didn't commit suicide but she died from breast cancer when I was 3. I am 36 and it has created lifelong depression which is mild and I can live with, but also created anxiety in me so deep that I cannot hold down a job. Children are forever scarred when a parent dies, so I told him he was not allowed to leave the children. Luckily for him and for the rest of us his depression was temporary and was treatable. I feel so lucky and blessed that we made it through it and that he is happy again. I understand it's different for those who are afflicted with it for their entire life.

They think "I can't go through that again."

I had a friend who committed suicide and I felt sort of the same way you did. This was a person who always lived a life filled with pain and could never really connect with people. I understood his reasons.

It's not something I would do because of the pain I know it causes your family and close friends, however, but I do understand people who did it if they have lived a life of continuous pain.

we had 2 suicides in our family within 5 months of each other. Both were YOUNG males and were spouses of blood family members. One was 30 (barely) the other 23. Both left small children behind. The devastation it leaves for the survivors is unmeasurable. It's been a tragic, tragic year.

my cousin asked me a simple question. 'Do you want to die or do you want to feel better?' Most want the second, but relief seems impossible.

The treatments offered for depression take a long time to work in a lot of cases. A depressed person cannot feel anything changing or believe that it will.

BTW the first episode of major depression wasn't the one that totally changed my life. It was the second one that suddenly appeared. It was then that I truly understood what forces had me at their mercy. From then on, I made no long term plans and began to wander.

I still wander out of some useless hope that I will wander out of it for good.

The 'sad' part is that I don't know who I could have been. I have done the best I can, but boy has it been a wild, and at times, terrifying ride.

"The sad part is that I don't know who I could have been."

That is how I feel about my anxiety. I always thought I would be a biologist. I have a strong passion for science. I've tried going to school a few times. I have a lot of fun learning, and I make it through a few classes. But I can't get all the way through to get a degree. I try to love and accept myself for who I am now. I am tired of feeling like I'm not good enough. I don't know what the future holds. I may try again. I think I may try a new approach if I ever try to go back to school again. I think I will take it one class at a time and stop focusing on trying to get a degree. Just go for the fun of learning. I always have so much fun learning.

Tonight was a special night at the residence. It's a very supportive community and we had extra staff stay the night. There will be special programming all weekend at the residence and the young lady's parents will join us for dinner tomorrow night.

The residents spent today's programming at the clinical building in process group. Understandably, the suicide elicited a wide range of emotional responses, from to but, in the end

I have experienced suicidal ideation since I was a pre-teen. By 22, my mind had rapidly deteriorated, and my heightened paranoia was beyond urreal. Shame and ignorance lead me to withdraw from family, friends, and co-workers.

But I got some breaks -- not good karma, not a blessing from God -- just dumb luck that allowed me to bide some time before I wound up in the hospital with a diagnosis of bipolar I disorder. Then I got another break. Mine turned out to be the equivalent of the cancer patient who responded to chemo. Unlike *many* of those suffering from mental illness, or cancer for that matter, I responded to medication and my condition has been easy to treat. Through dumb luck, I got to that mythical point that many others will never reach.

Maybe someday there will be a cure for incurable cancer. And maybe someday there will be a cure for incurable mental illness. At this time, however, some respond to treatment, but *many* more don't. I don't accept some parts of mental illness and reject others. Suicide is simply one of the parts.

I'm the eternal optimist and I just find it hard to get inside the head of somebody who is so painfully unhappy that they want to kill themselves.

It reached the worst point around the age of 20, when I was in college. I felt homesick and lonely. I didn't eat or go to class. I really had a breakdown. I did end up on a hospital psychiatric ward for two days but after that I never was as depressed again. I eventually found the right meds. I got married and had two wonderful girls. But I remember the people on the ward and wonder if they found their way out of the fog of depression or not. My 24 year old cousin recently committed suicide and it brought all the memories back. I wonder if depression runs in my family as there has been other incidences in different family members.
Depression sucks and sometimes people just want out of those feelings but suicide is so final. My cousin will never be older then 24 and experience what his life could have been like.

After reading through this and a few PMs it seems important to repeat, not all suicidal people are mentally ill. Depression, bipolar, etc, surely can lead to suicidal thoughts and actions, but so can logic. Logically one can determine for oneself,particularly after years of abuse and black cloud bad luck, physical disability, chronic physical pain, and as mentioned before things like life in prison or guilt for having done something heinous,, that there is a line of discomfort or pain or remembering that is simply not tolerable.

Please stop equating all suicidal folks with mental illness.

Suicide ruins lives. The person who is in pain, well, their pain is over, but the family, they are destroyed.
How do I know?
My son died by suicide 5 years ago. I found his body. He hung himself.
My life is esentually, over. Really. Over. My husbands still a mess. My surviving son, haunted. Dil, traumatized. Friends, distraught. All of us, still.
I understand wanting to die. Well, now I do. I want to die everyday. But don't be deluded into to thinking everyone will be better off. They will not be.

Life can get so unbearable, so tricky, so miserable, that they no longer want to endure it. It isn't "death" they're seeking but relief.

Suicide - painless, certain and dignified, should not just be legal, but freely available to any non-adjudicated adult in the nation, on demand. Yes it's great that a tiny number of states allow legal physician-assisted euthanasia for the terminally ill, but that's just a start, like letting white men over 30 who own more than 10 acres vote is the start of democracy. It's not where a truly enlightened and rational society should be.

I am far from poor, but I own only a part of my house with the bank. My respectable but not unlimited savings could be stripped to nothing with any serious illness or legal fight. My own health is fading as it happens, but even for far healthier folks like my wife or anyone else at all, a sudden onset of thousands of diseases or conditions could destroy that vitality. My possessions are fleeting chattel. The one - the only damn thing I am sure without any question I do and must possess in its entirety is my own life. Why I do not have the right to end that of my own free sane considered choice without risking injury to others or becoming a helpless brainless hulk if the bullet I fire is deflected or a pedestrian happens by the building from which I fall is inhumane and inhuman, when every pharmacy can supply certain and painless means for pennies.

I am not suicidal at this point. Far from it. Given my situation it is pretty close to certain I never will be. Don't let the first-person narrative fool you. This is a personal cause not because of personal need but because of personal revulsion over laws and superstitions that will not grant to individuals full control over their own individual being itself. If we do not control our own existence, where is freedom? How is freedom possible?

I'm not going to speak to the OP's case - I know nothing of it. Some suicides are sad and needless. Some are blessed relief. Just like some lives are inimical and some are glorious. Taking away the right to either is evil.