let new Congress see how business will be run.

They are for making new wars, he's for taking care of veterans. The GOP voted down every measure to help returning vets enter back into civilian life, because IMO, they didn't ever want them to come home. In a box, sure. Alive and voting, no.

Romney's team would have put us back on the PNAC Endless War Train to Armageddon. It's their dogma that God wants to use the GOP (God's Own Party) to eliminate non-believers. Bunch of sick fucks.

Indeed. They are sequestered!

The closer we get to the new year the more likely the rethugs will fold (still wont stop them whining about it, though).

Better idea: the tax cuts are expiring, period. Now let's talk about what else I'm going to do to you if you don't cooperate.

he has been campaigning for years on preserving the tax cuts for the middle class, and he just won on that position.

so we really have a year for the tax cuts on the middle class to be settled.

on edit - thinking about that, it may even be likely that it will play out that way. Its in Obama's style to give up a talking point to the hair-on-fire repugs, and then to actually get done what he promised and they opposed.

I would guess we see all the rates go up, panic on the right, a great deal of media drama, and then before the end of the year (when it actually makes a difference) without much fanfare at all - the rates on the middle class and down will be adjusted back.

If they won't play ball, send them to a bar for a teabagging. Now that would be a fourth-level chess game we can all get behind.

We'd be in the same boat.

Can the Dems begin a recall for those who do not want to compromise in the best interests of the country?

For crimes and ethics violations.

Start working on 2014.

When a congressman is sworn in they pledge to serve the People. GOP know damn well Norquist will have them voted out if they violate the pledge. In essence, they're not entering into tax/budget negotiations with Obama in good faith. They go in with sole objective of saving their jobs by pleasing Norquist. U hear very little from the Administration. The GOP needs to be called out on this.

take the wind out of Norquist's sails.

to expire, so I'm a deficit radical in some ways, but there MUST be a price paid for what the Middle Class will give back in taxes.

Why wouldn't he do that? He campaigned on tax rates going back to Clinton-era levels. Now it sounds as if he's willing to make a deal, which infers that a deal would include rates that are not at Clinton-era levels.

What am I missing? Just let the extension expire.

as I understand it.

So you'll have to forgive me if I don't hold my breath.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=7922946#7922951

me too
kp

Meaning if they do negotiate with him they won't. Whatever comes of the negotiations will happen, presumably less than the expiring of the tax cuts or else why would they come to the table?

Unlike the senate, the house is always in election mode. Obama can play chicken with the repubs in the house--he's got much less to lose than they do. This is exactly when he should force them to publicly and clearly denounce the middle class or work with him. It is possible that some of the gamblers and dim-witted among them may think that they can get away with holding congress hostage, but at least some (enough to get bills started) will worry that in a stand-off, they, not Obama will get the blame when things get worse.

Worse, (for them) is the prospect of the economy getting better and not being in a position to grab at least some of the credit. The President should ask for exactly what he wants, then just sit tight.

he will compromise on the rate... it should go back to Clinton Era rate or higher to get us on track

....and then introduce legislation setting up NEW tax cuts that will only benefit the middle and lower classes? Let the SOB Rethugs vote down a bill to give tax cuts to working people and see how well they fare in 2014...

He caves before negotiations even start. He'll make a compromised offer right off the bat. That's what he does.

Axelrod already came out said that the administration doesn't have a mandate. Nothing says "thank you" to your voters like unilateral disarmament just a couple of days after being reelected.

Wasn't expecting any different though. This is the status quo in the Democratic party.

Remember, they've got to have something to give the majority in their states when they go back to get re-elected in 2014.

that the Obama is offering that 'grand bargain' thingy again..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/11/fiscal-cliff-talks-medicare-social-security_n_2113259.html

Belch. :&gt ((

What is the point of this?

I think all the Bush-Obama tax cuts need to expire. If the wealthy aren't taxed enough (and they aren't), tax them even more.

If that's what it takes, that's what it takes!!! I'm not making over 100k, but I support the President in standing his ground, i'm tired of him trying to play nice with idiots that only want to try and ruin the man.

Election is over Republicants, compromise or pay the damn price!

Republicans offer the "compromise" of implementing Romney's tax plan. The Democrats demand a "return" to a tax rate less progressive than Clinton's. The Republicans then "compromise" by offering a plan to eliminate taxes on every billionaire forever. The democrats then agree to meet them half way and just eliminate taxes for billionaires for fifty years. Four years later we are even more broke and the people are told we need to throw grandma out on the street because we can't afford it, and freedom and the children. Whats the point of winning elections then? I agree let them expire.

but i guess it is better to (pretend to?) offer the olive branch and make them look like uncompromising assholes...


whatever, it's not like they aren't uncompromising assholes to begin with. nah, let 'em expire. no good will come from talking to them about this.

Why SHOULD he approve spending cuts in return?


rocktivity

I wish there was some way to threaten to tax the rich at Eisenhower rates.

That's what the pigs deserve, and maybe it would get them to stop acting like shameless gluttons, if they thought they could at least hold on to almost half.

I have have noticed a streak in President Obama, he kind of makes them pay when they get intransigent. If they were smart they would come to the table, but i fear for them they are not as smart as they think they are and will end up paying a lot more for it in the end. If you look to the track record of how things have unfolded then the way to bet would be obvious

didn't ya?

"if the House GOP refuses to cut a deal with the president that includes some tax increases on the wealthy, the tax cuts will expire"

I think Obama is smart enough to understand that the wealthy have had these tax cuts for years and it hasn't helped one fucking bit.. It has done nothing but add to our debt. So what his problem with letting the fucking things expire?

"some tax increases on the wealthy." Sorry but that pisses me off. That is a fucking weasel sentence 2 days after he won the election.

He has no need to work out a deal with those assholes.

Obama would prefer to get the rates on the wealthy raised without having to raise taxes on the middle class.

OTOH, we can always go over "the fiscal cliff" and see what happens. That does up the rates on the upper incomes more than it raises them for the rest of us.

Those went away when Obama made the deal to extend the tax breaks for unemployment.

You need to drive a stake to finish him off.

He has this one. How many months has he been talking about it? Call the food pantry and see if they need help loading boxes. This is not productive!

Let them expire. Then, use the bully pulpit to make the GOP give tax cuts to those under 250K only. Let him keep pounding them everyday to give the middle class tax cuts. Then, everybody under 250K will get the extra taxes back at the end of the year.

If we need to off the cliff to get rid of Grover, so be it.

Our elected reps cannot serve more than one master.

Even if it increases middle class taxes back to what they were. No matter what the deal is, it won't be good enough for the same posters for whom nothing ever is.

In his first term he favored closed meetings and negotiations with Republicans. They need to fear electoral consequences.

of the Democratic Party. Then hit them with, "there is absolutely no reason on earth for us to give you anything until after the next session is called to order. How much will you give us right now to keep your sorry asses alive for any future career in DC?"

I'll bet you $1,000 that this is pretty much the advice Alan Greyson would give to them if those spineless bastards would listen to them.

This is NOT showing spine at all! Really, cheering everything Obama says as if it's great isn't going to get us any progressive policy in place. We need to let him know he can be more forceful and we'll still be behind him, cheering him for really standing up for us, and against them.

This is letting them get US to negotiate with them. All Obama needs to do is let the tax cuts expire, AS THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO DO A LONG TIME AGO, then propose tax cuts for the middle and working class. Let the Republicans take the heat for not wanting to do this.

He can lay it out right now and frame it exactly that way. The people would not disagree with it and it would make the tax cuts on the middle and working class "permanent" and not up for being help hostage every so often as the Bush tax cuts are.

So all he has to do is take the message to the people:

We are going to let the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy expire. Then we are going to cut taxes for the middle and working class people, as long as the Republicans vote for it.

Done. End of story. The Republicans can't get out and argue against that.

with you. Dee Dee Myers and and Chris Matthews need to shutup. What the President needs to do is to talk to the people that voted for him. He needs backbone instead of listening to these two rich people. They do not speak for me. If the President backs down, then he damages the Democratic Party. Let the tax cuts expire period and then we will deal. People like Myers and Matthews need to take a hike if they don't have any backbone.

The problem is that it isn't just tax cuts for the wealthy that will expire, it will be tax cuts for everyone.

Just a point of clarification, as the Bush tax cuts aren't broken out by "wealthy" and "everyone else".

and working class. Let the pubs say no to that and take that to the Tea Party.

Even Bush himself had them expiring even before now! But they were extended to head off the last "fiscal cliff" that Republicans used to get what they wanted.

Backbone would have been to say: The Bush Tax Cuts WILL expire so lets start working right this minute on a new plan to focus those cuts around the middle class instead.

is the kind of President I want. He doesn't have to worry about me in the short term. I'm willing to fight the GOP on principle once and for all. There should be ways we can make them suffer. Especially the Red States. I live in one. I don't think the Blue County I live in within North Carolina should be held hostage by the rural areas in North Carolina. I guarantee you, we produce more revenues than the Repukes in the country. We can set up our own Government just like it happened during the American Civil War. All the South does not agree with the Repukes.

announce it's "a new deal" time and immediately form a department to start hiring folks to work for the government. They can work on infrastructure, new energy ideas, hell - they can be trained by the IRS to audit companies (like those who are deciding a day after the election to lay off democrats).

Time to play hard ball Mr. President.

Yeah, even my own.

Then let the Republicans grovel at the DEMOCRATS' feet. For once, I would like to see the Dems controlling, driving, and managing the agenda.

and do their damn job.

...making the Bush tax cuts permanent for all incomes below $250K. All that needs to happen is for the House to approve it, and the POTUS to sign it.

This is all on the teabaggers who control Boehner's House, which makes it ultimately all on Boehner. He could bring the bill up for a vote, and let Democrats and the few remaining sane GOP Reps vote for it.

But he won't.

The "fiscal cliff" is a ginned up crisis that will have NO effects until the last quarter of 2013.

Dems need to wait this one out. They have ALL the power, now. If they pass anything to extend the Bush "enrich the wealthy" policy, they lose that leverage.

PLEASE!!!

I and my wife are distinctly middle-class and we would GLADLY sacrifice our tax cuts to get the country to an equitable and SANE plan for balancing the budget. I want my president to know my vote on Tuesday was an authorization to do whatever is necessary to break the recalcitrant opposition's obstructionism.

Stand up to them.
Make them own the results of their nonsense exactly the way Clinton made Gingrich and his pukes own the government shutdowns of the 90's.

They have already placed the millstone around their OWN necks....all we have to do now is NOTHING. The president should be Michael Corelone in this "negotiation"...."Mr. Boehner, you can have my answer now. Here's what I am offering...Nothing."

Moostache, i bow before you

STAND UP TO THEM
Mr. President
WE Have Your Back

peace, kp

Do we really want all the Bush tax cuts expire??? If so, this will hurt a lot of middle-income/workers/poor people...

Not sure if this source is correct in calculating how this would affect us, but it sounds like this would be a major tax increase on us if this happens...

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/08/06/what-the-fiscal-cliff-will-mean-for-you/

we do. This is a clever move. If they do expire, it will all be on the GOP. Taxes will go up in 2013. 2014 is an election year. There is a bill now waiting for the Repukes to sign, letting the Bush taxcuts stay in place for the middle class and poor. That is why the President was waving that pen. Supposedly, the Repukes and the President agree not raising taxes on the middle class and Poor,

If the Repukes don't sign it now, The president will get it on record by campaigning in their Districts now. The Unions are involved in advertising also urging their representatives to pass the Bill. If they refuse, it is all on them in 2014. That is the corner he has the Repukes in, if they claim the president raised taxes on them. The counter message, is they held up extending taxcuts on the middleclass and poor, just to give the rich taxcuts. That is the issue they are holding hostage. So the President has out manuevered Boehner and McConnell. He will get what he wants in the end.

ends, earned interest and capital gains at the same rate. The wealthy get all of the perks in this country. It's time they paid for their infinite number of privileges. There are many millionaires in Congress. WE pay for their and their families lifelong cream-of-the-crop insurance coverages and retirement packages....even if convicted of a crime. After death, we continue paying for their families. Wake up Americans. These people could care less about your financial state. Or the country's for that matter.

More tax on the wealthy. And find their hidden monies so we can tax and fine it. They are the parasites.

Raise my taxes!

That's one Republican idea, the retroactive tax cut, I wouldn't mind the president stealing. As usual, the Republicans will hold the middle class hostage to protect the jillionaires

We let the Bush tax cuts expire, then we go back to the Clinton-era tax rates for the middle class and poor, and to Eisenhower-era tax rates for the wealthy.

Now, you might be thinking, what's to prevent the wealthy from simply moving their money overseas? Easy! We confiscate their businesses, their assets, and their homes if they do. Everything. We seize their companies and nationalize them.

I'm sick of pussyfooting around with the "1%". To hell with them. They wanna sit and bitch about "....oh, it's socialism! The Democrats are a bunch of commies!" well, I'll show them something guaranteed to leave skidmarks in their Brooks Brothers silk boxers.

Wanna call for secession? Fine. Treason/sedition. Off to Gitmo with you. 20 years to life.

There's my compromise, GOP. Take it or leave it. And if you leave it, you ain't gonna like the consequences.

I think he will gain even more political capital in doing so. This will be just like the payroll tax extension that passed the Senate and couldn't pass the teabagger House; Boehner will look limp and powerless, as usual, while the President crosses the country making them pay for being beholden to the very wealthiest in this country - which they are!

I really hope Obama manages to get a long-term deficit reduction deal that is about $1.5 in tax increases for $2 in spending cuts along with short-term stimulus to further help the economy. Then comes immigration reform... and Democratic Administrations for a generation.

From your sig line!

The notion that taxing those who SHOULD contribute to the society that allows their attainment and safe holding of wealth should be basic. But it's verboten in America.

Stuck on stupid sometimes.

What the fuck are you on about now, Cryer?

Okay, I gotcha.

Bonobo apparently thinks Obama should've had the 'spine' to throw the unemployed under the bus.

It was called the "Tax Relief, Unemployment Insurance Reauthorization, and Job Creation Act of 2010" for a reason.

Bonobo thinks the tax breaks for the rich are a disaster economically and fundamentally wrong.

They were temporary and would expire with no further effort. They should be allowed to and should not be used as bargaining chips.

Letting something expire does not require spine. "Spine" implies an action, not a lack of action. NO ACTION was needed for them to expire.

Let them expire. THEN start negotiating.

I am glad joshcryer is not in a position to negotiate for important things. Weakness is obvious to anyone with an eye for it.

Bonobo apparently trusts Republicans to do the right thing when their stated purpose was solely to oust Obama.

A joke.

I find talking with you an exercise in futility because of your posing.

You think yourself a pragmatist, I know, but there is no excuse for advocating for wars and tax cuts to the top 1%.

I am done with you. You bore me tremendously.

But you apparently advocate for letting the unemployed sink.

The Democrats fought hard for letting the top tax cuts expire.

A lot of Democrats even voted against the bill Obama proposed.

It didn't pass the Senate no matter how often they tried.

And once the new Congress got seated we saw how much they fucking cared about the poor and downtrodden.

You beat the drums for a long, long time.

As for the 1% tax increase, you do not advocate it, but you clearly apologize for it.

Your position, apparently, is that the only way to get the most basic social net for the poor is to give in to blackmail from the rich.

I would not have given in without more of a fight.

"The Democrats fought hard for letting the top tax cuts expire."

---but as I said, no fight was required. They were scheduled to expire and Obama promised to let them expire. You keep pretending like action was needed to have them expire. It wasn't. Action was needed to maintain them. Obama took that action and here we are discussing whether it should be taken again. Which side are you really on vis a vis the issue of the Bush tax cuts? Are they a bargaining chip to you to be used to "get" some crumbs? Apparently.

The rallying cry of the privileged who don't give a shit about the poor and downtrodden.

You don't grasp the timeline here, they had 2 weeks before the Democrats were kicked from Congress. Two weeks for the Child Tax Credit to be cut in half, two weeks for Earned Income Tax Credit to sunset, two weeks until the Alternative Minimum Tax was locked in excluding 21 million working class families. Two weeks Bonobo.

Yeah, that's a fight they would've never won.

It's a good thing you aren't in politics because your "fight" is a joke and would be damaging to over a hundred million working class and poor.

The Bush tax cuts were a bargaining chip because the Teabaggers were 2 weeks away from taking over the House, and as history showed, they fucking didn't do shit for 2 years, with their sole goal being the ouster of Obama. Sure you would've got the revenue increase, but the country would've sunk hard. The rich won out by 3 to 1 on that deal, but the reality is that 1 is more important. When it comes to helping the citizens, you do what you can, you don't squabble over idealistic nonsense that achieves nothing for them.

The difference is now, simply, that the economy has recovered from the state it was in, and the tax cuts sunsetting will have little negative effect on the economy.

If you're going to argue that had they sunsetted in 2010 along with all of the progressive tax credits, unemployment benefits, and pro-small business legislation the economy would've been OK, I have a bridge to sell you. It's simply not the reality. The teabaggers would've brought on a Great Depression.

the Purists, Josh. But I admire you for trying. They know they're wrong, but they don't care because it's no skin off their backs.

The Obama bashing has begun full force . . .

I thought it was rich when they found Obama's marijuana policy "unforgivable" when they live in a country where penalties for marijuana possession are 100x worse than even the worst state here.

I went on to help Colorado legalize marijuana (not decriminalize, legalize, actually make it legal, 100%, across the board; I canvased for months and took people to the polls, I know I contributed significantly, as did many other activists like myself; and I don't even smoke).

Honestly, though, I'm tiring of defending Obama. He's going to have to do some seriously gutsy shit in the next few months for me to keep at it. I'm not a super duper Obama supporter, I was against him mostly during the primaries, but I defend him because at least he's fucking consistent, and he does what he says he'll do if he has the power to do so. So here's hoping he fights because I honestly will just STFU and stop defending him (I might even write an OP or two if he really fucks this up). It's been a tiring ass two years defending Obama against the authoritarian leftists and I can't take it anymore. Fuck it, I say. Let them shit on him if he doesn't stick to his word (particularly letting the Bush tax cuts expire).

before seeing this post, talking about the media/politicians hyping up the fiscal cliff and saying...if it comes down to all or nothing - let them expire. For everyone. No caving again.

Really, if you don't understand the issue well enough to post about it, maybe you shouldn't. We learned nothing from your post.

The petition was created today and only needs 150 signatures before it becomes visible on the the petitions page. Once it does it will get much more attn. Before u sign u need to create a user account with Obama's "We the People Page". It's ez & fast. http://wh.gov/9UmE [link:http://wh.gov/9UmE|

Yup.

Call the Republicans out on this. Tax the rich or explain to the middle class why they are voting to raise their taxes. Wasn't that one of the big messages of this election?

They need to end, period. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

And hands OFF Social Security and Medicare benefits.

To use those horrible tax breaks that were set to automatically expire as a bargaining tool to fight for crumbs for the poor from the PARTY THAT LOST is not strong negotiating. Sorry, but it isn't.

It's only a little more and we're paying less than we have in 30 years right now.

Write Congress now, everyone should start putting the pressure on them now, call, email, snail mail, whatever, just let them know we are watching them and 2014-2016 are just around the corner!

Let's face the fact that no one wants to pay higher taxes. However it is just like gas getting higher. No one wants to pay but we still buy it because we need the benefits. Taxes is the same. We all want good schools,roads,internet and all the good things life in America has become. So if the republicans do not want to let the tax rate go back to Clinton era rates for the rich, then we should all pay a little more. The republicans will never give up and allow the rates to return to 39.6%, so the President should not give in to the pressure to keep the currant rates. If however the President caves and gives into the republicans, I think this will destroy any gains the Democrats have made. So what I am saying look for a compromise, but if it's not there, just do nothing and let all the Bush tax cuts expire. We will survive.

Bombard the airways with the message that the Repukes are screwing the 99% to save the riches of the rich. Maybe the wing nuts will finally get it.

He should then have it made clear that he supports another "tax cut for the middle class" and the 98% of Americans that make below $250k have assistance.

But make it very, very clear that social security , medicare and food stamps are off limits and that revenue from taxes on every bit of income over $250k will be taxed at higher rate. Period. End of story.

Any Republican (or Democrat) that stands in way should then be publicly called out as supporting the rich and wanting tax increases on 98% of Americans.

... and then restore the REAGAN tax rates.

How could Republicans ever vote against their messiah?

Watching them wrestle with that tricky dilemma would be priceless entertainment.

He told me this last July in an off-the-record meeting (which is why I didn't post it then), and he's sticking to it. Good.

He said that if the Republicans stonewalled him on this, that he'd let ALL the Bush tax cuts expire, and then introduce legislation to re-instate the cuts for people earning under $250,000. Let the Republicans try to block THAT one and explain it to the 98% of the voters who earn under $250,000.