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Ford_Prefect

(7,924 posts)
Wed Mar 29, 2023, 07:38 PM Mar 2023

Declassified report suggests "Havana syndrome" could result from energy weapon

https://www.salon.com/2023/03/29/exclusive-declassified-report-suggests-havana-syndrome-could-result-from-energy-weapon/

A newly obtained declassified report prepared for the director of national intelligence by a panel of experts appears to show conclusively that "Havana syndrome" — a cluster of unexplained symptoms experienced by diplomats and government personnel abroad — is not a naturally occurring health problem. It does not reach any conclusions about who or what may be responsible, but suggests that an unknown device or weapon using "pulsed electromagnetic energy" remains a plausible explanation.

The document was declassified after the James Madison Project, a nonprofit dedicated to reducing government secrecy, sued to obtain further information on "Anomalous Health Incidents" or AHIs, the official term used to designate the syndrome.

"The U.S. government is covering up evidence as to what AHIs are," said James Madison Project attorney Mark Zaid, who also represents a number of Havana syndrome patients. "This report differs from the summary released earlier this month and previous statements from the intelligence community. It is becoming apparent that these events were perpetrated either by foreign actors, or it is an experiment gone horribly wrong."


Further: The report says that electronic devices are far more likely to cause the effects and are a plausible cause.
"Sources exist that could generate the required stimulus, are concealable, and have moderate power requirements."


Such electromagnetic signals, the report continues, "could be propagated with low loss through air for tens to hundreds of meters, and with some loss, through most building materials."


So the cause is something NO ONE, especially our own Intel Services, wants to admit exists and has these side effects. We don't need Orlon's magic chipset under our skin because the external listening tools already exist?
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Declassified report suggests "Havana syndrome" could result from energy weapon (Original Post) Ford_Prefect Mar 2023 OP
Well, this seems to negate what I heard 3 weeks ago. OAITW r.2.0 Mar 2023 #1
Yeah I posted that. Didn't make any sense. underpants Mar 2023 #2
Read the whole story on Salon. It makes clear that there has been an effort to obscure the causes. Ford_Prefect Mar 2023 #3
OK, but....will the USG validate? OAITW r.2.0 Mar 2023 #7
. Effete Snob Mar 2023 #4
That GIF Is Priceless! ProfessorGAC Mar 2023 #10
I try my best Effete Snob Mar 2023 #12
This is like all of the indictment and covid news.. and coffee and eggs, yes, no, yes, maybe chowder66 Mar 2023 #5
"They" intend us to be confused and frustrated about it. Ford_Prefect Mar 2023 #6
Or did some contractor peddle them an in-house system to block electronic spying, and this is an NBachers Mar 2023 #8
Oh, yeah. Kid Berwyn Mar 2023 #9
The fact that it happened to embassy personnel in a semi hostile country EX500rider Mar 2023 #11
actually has happened in multiple locations stopdiggin Mar 2023 #14
However the cases in Havana have not been solved EX500rider Mar 2023 #17
according to people on one side of the fence stopdiggin Mar 2023 #18
I recall residents KT2000 Mar 2023 #13
attorney quoted represents plaintiffs stopdiggin Mar 2023 #15
I wonder are we back to "He said, She said"? Ford_Prefect Mar 2023 #16

OAITW r.2.0

(24,656 posts)
1. Well, this seems to negate what I heard 3 weeks ago.
Wed Mar 29, 2023, 07:41 PM
Mar 2023

So, what the fuck should I think? Imaginary? A real weapon? Time for the USG to pony up and have the last word on this.

Ford_Prefect

(7,924 posts)
3. Read the whole story on Salon. It makes clear that there has been an effort to obscure the causes.
Wed Mar 29, 2023, 07:46 PM
Mar 2023

It also makes clear that the causes are real.

The declassified report even outlines one possible method of causing AHIs, using small devices that consist of "commercial off-the-shelf technology, use mature technology, are easily portable and concealable, and can be powered by standard electricity or batteries. Parametric acoustic arrays — also referred to as directional loudspeakers or acoustic lasers — are the most plausible technology, although other ultrasound technology may be at play."

No line of sight would be necessary, according to the report:

For radio frequency, no direct air pathway or line of sight is required. The strongest factors affecting the power received at a given location are the power transmitted, the antenna gain, the distance between the transmitter and the location, and what kinds of materials are in between. A number of different biological effects may occur, as a function of the frequencies and power densities on target. Any one specific transmitter type may have controllable power and variable pulsing.

OAITW r.2.0

(24,656 posts)
7. OK, but....will the USG validate?
Wed Mar 29, 2023, 07:59 PM
Mar 2023

Not sure I want to believe the reporting from any source other than the USG to validate. OTOH, if the Trump WH/State had made this assertion, would I believe that? Jesus, it's getting really hard to know who to believe....

chowder66

(9,086 posts)
5. This is like all of the indictment and covid news.. and coffee and eggs, yes, no, yes, maybe
Wed Mar 29, 2023, 07:48 PM
Mar 2023

no, yes, no.

But thank you for posting anyway. It's just frustrating.

Ford_Prefect

(7,924 posts)
6. "They" intend us to be confused and frustrated about it.
Wed Mar 29, 2023, 07:55 PM
Mar 2023

The report says the hardware that could cause this is off the shelf tech, not some star wars mystery.

NBachers

(17,149 posts)
8. Or did some contractor peddle them an in-house system to block electronic spying, and this is an
Wed Mar 29, 2023, 08:10 PM
Mar 2023

unintended consequence that's being kept under wraps?

EX500rider

(10,877 posts)
11. The fact that it happened to embassy personnel in a semi hostile country
Wed Mar 29, 2023, 08:15 PM
Mar 2023

Points to some kind of spy beam for sure.
Not necessarily the Cubans of course, I suspect the Russians who probably have free access in Havana for spying

stopdiggin

(11,385 posts)
14. actually has happened in multiple locations
Wed Mar 29, 2023, 11:33 PM
Mar 2023

Some 1,500 cases among U.S. government staffers have now been reported worldwide. The vast majority of those cases have been resolved and were linked to causes such as existing medical conditions.

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/01/1160457170/u-s-intelligence-foreign-rivals-didnt-cause-havana-syndrome

EX500rider

(10,877 posts)
17. However the cases in Havana have not been solved
Thu Mar 30, 2023, 10:44 AM
Mar 2023

And the evidence points towards high energy electromagnetic radiation of some type

stopdiggin

(11,385 posts)
18. according to people on one side of the fence
Thu Mar 30, 2023, 02:17 PM
Mar 2023

the other camp says, "we just simply don't know - haven't been able identify anything definitively - " And rather than speculate ...

KT2000

(20,590 posts)
13. I recall residents
Wed Mar 29, 2023, 08:45 PM
Mar 2023

in some towns in Oregon experienced the same thing years ago. Of course they said it was all in their heads. The US has done its share of weapons testing on the US population.

stopdiggin

(11,385 posts)
15. attorney quoted represents plaintiffs
Wed Mar 29, 2023, 11:42 PM
Mar 2023

and has a vested financial interest. Moreover, directly contradicts statements from the 'intelligence' community issued just weeks ago.

I suppose you can conclude just about anything you wish to ... Be be aware that that is what you are doing.

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/01/1160457170/u-s-intelligence-foreign-rivals-didnt-cause-havana-syndrome

Two intelligence officials familiar with the new report briefed a small number of journalists on Wednesday. The intelligence community cannot say exactly what happened in these episodes — but now believes it's pretty sure of what didn't happen in Havana and elsewhere.

Seven different U.S. intelligence agencies were involved in the investigation, and five found it was "highly unlikely" a foreign country was to blame. One said it was "unlikely," and one didn't take a position.

The officials also said there was "no credible evidence" that a foreign adversary has a weapon capable of inflicting the kind of harm suffered by the U.S. officials.

The assessment goes against what many people suspected, including many of the intelligence officers and diplomats who suffered these ailments.


Ford_Prefect

(7,924 posts)
16. I wonder are we back to "He said, She said"?
Thu Mar 30, 2023, 12:13 AM
Mar 2023

I've seen the USG cover up many things since agent orange and also just plain get them wrong out of no ill intent. I can't speak for all of the cases but the descriptions of the initial ones didn't seem to flag with organic causes of one kind or another. I have seen what radio waves can do when applied with the appropriate focus.

I doubt this was an intentional effect. I also see the possibility that someone has something to hide. The conflicting reports make it difficult to be sure. The government has been vague and doubtful that there was actual damage initially which begs the question of whether they were telling us the whole truth 3 weeks ago.

Seven different U.S. intelligence agencies were involved in the investigation, and five found it was "highly unlikely" a foreign country was to blame. One said it was "unlikely," and one didn't take a position.

The officials also said there was "no credible evidence" that a foreign adversary has a weapon capable of inflicting the kind of harm suffered by the U.S. officials


That is not the same thing as a device effect which originates in something which is NOT a weapon, like a listening device using microwaves as the medium.

It will be interesting to see how this turns out, if indeed we'll ever get a finite answer.
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