it's what the mayans were talking about when they designed their calendar.

That President Obama would let them all expire.

Edit - I read the OP completely wrong... Ignore me and move along.

Everyone would get the tax cut on all their earned income up to $250,000, even billionaires. That's how it should be framed. I would like to see the Republicans try to explain their opposition to that.

It is a taxcut for everyone. Very good point. And that is probably the best way to frame it? IF the Repubs do nothing, they are stopping a taxcut for everyone. That is their decision. The only power that is in the President's hands is to let it expire. The President cannot pass tax cuts - only the Congress. If they try to pass the bill for billionaires, the President has promised to veto it. Of course, it would never make it to his desk because it would not get thru the Senate.

i think you meant to refer to the constitutional restriction that only the house can originate bills that RAISE revenue.

the senate can originate bills that REDUCE revenue, though traditionally it doesn't even do that because virtually all revenue bills include SOME increases.


in truth, though, this provision amounts to a formality rather than a meaningful restriction. the senate can originate a bill that raises revenue, it just can't become law *in that form*. but the house can of course then originate a bill in a remarkably similar form and then the senate can pass THAT bill. which is little different from any other complex bill that gets passed by both houses in different forms and then goes to a reconciliation committee after which a fresh compromise bill is passed by both houses.

They aren't talking about the real issue, and I predict they will not.

The top tax rate is a bogus issue because almost none of the 0.1-percenters pay any significant tax at that rate. The real issues are:

1) That the billionaires are able to shelter their income through offshore accounts and/or complex corporate structures; and

2) that they can use loopholes to launder their income at the special billionaire's rate of 15% (cap gains).

Is anybody talking about fixing either one of those abuses?

No and they will not. Because this is all just bullshit rhetoric to both sides. They will each milk the rhetoric for as much political benefit as they can get, then they'll sign some bullshit agreement that doesn't lay a finger on the rich.

Mark my words. I hope to be proven wrong. I don't think I will be.

Our side will have to do the same thing on entitlements. Nobody is going to like it, from either side. But the quicker they do it, the quicker it will be over. And it won't be the end of the world. Anything that comes out badly can be refought at a later date.

My guess is that the Republicans will accede to a tax hike for high earners. But Schumer's statement the other day makes me think that there will be a compromise on both sides: they'll go up to 35% rather than 39%, but also cap deductions on these high earners to make up for the rest. I could live with that, as long as the needed revenues are generated from it.

i don't see it having a huge impact on 2014 in and of itself.

but that's partly because i don't forsee any huge changes. if they completely rewrite the tax code, yeah, sure, that would have a big impact on 2014.

but i see rates increasing, mostly due to the shrub cuts expiring; a few deductions ending; a minimum tax fix that might be somewhat more enduring that the usual annual "patch"; and maybe a few new deductions/credits to make it all go down easier. more than the usual tinkering, but nothing landmark.

nothing so huge that congressional races won't still be about local and state matters like did their candidate come out in favor of rape, etc.

Our hope is a solid democrat vote with some reasonable republicans added to bring vote to 217; for tax cut for EVERYONE
including millionaires on the NET income of first $250,000 earned. Then anything above that would be taxed at a rate of 4.6% higher or 39.6% from the 35% now. All this for the sake of keeping a 4.6% tax hike from happening on rich, which would bring taxes back to Clinton era. Don't forget the millionaires get taxed at 35% on first $250,000, which they didn't have in Clinton era.

They won't be taxed at 35% on the first $250,000. They'll be taxed at 10%, 15%, 25%, 28% & 33%, just like everyone else.

because, unlike the rest of us, much of their income is in the form of capital gains and dividends which thanks to Republican politicians, are taxed at much lower rates. See, for example, Rmoney http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1167192

That has nothing whatsoever to do with capital gains.

So, as I said - on the first $250,000 they will pay the same rates as everyone else, not 35%.

It would seem to me if you are above $250,0000 net, the first $250,000 would be 35%.
CHECK TAX TABLES.

President Obama hasn't said anything about changing any of the marginal rates except the top one, from 35% to 39.6%. All the rest will remain the same, at 10%, 15%, 25%, 28% and 33%.

Please take a few minutes to learn about how our tax system works before yelling "CHECK TAX TABLES" at people that do know. We can't be effective proponents for the President and make the case to others if we have no clue ourselves about how the marginal rate system works.

Over the past century or so, the party in power on the federal level traditionally loses ground in the states during mid-terms. There has only been a couple exceptions.

It's going to be a very uphill battle to retake the House in 2014. History has proven time and time again the coattails of the president's election does not extend into mid-terms like you think they would.That's just simply the way our political cycles work in this country. The pendulum swings back and forth when you have a divided electorate.

I remember many Democrats after 2008 gloating about our majorities in Congress. And many said the "GOP is finished. They will never take over the Congress again." Well...what happened in 2010? History repeated itself and Democrats got caught in a hangover after 2008. Don't make the same mistake.

people are waking up.

I was gonna say "the rich would intiate secondary protocol" and then put a clip of that scene from Armegeddon where the soldiers march off the elevator and the scientists at NASA are going "wtf?"

But as for the electoral consequences? Well what were the consequences this time?

Besides that, there's a 99.9% chance that Obama will cave and let them off the hook again.

He will again claim that he must cave for the good of the country.

And besides that, Obama's plan gives most of the benefits to the top 20% anyway.

So even an Obama victory is gonna be a huge loss for the working people of America and a win for the rich.