and remember why it is so important we all stick together

It's not about "taking the country back", whatever that means. It's about dividing the house.

they are the trouble with this Country, if it weren't for them there would be a lot more people working right now. They have caused the problems that Obama is having with the Congress.

yes INDEED

A New Turn in the South

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444860104577560843330485890.html

And have no doubt secession will be talked about sooner or later. When that happens I will do two things. One, remind them some of us did support Obama and regardless of their opinion he is our President. That in and of itself makes him worthy of respect. Then two, if you are so against welfare, handouts or whatever, how do they feel about our state receiving more federal money than we pay. Like it or not, we are a welfare state.

The answer, I remember. It was that the strings attached to the money made the federal dollars expensive to accept. He would gladly give up the dollars to sever the strings. And we see (R) politicians acting on this sentiment every now and then. The interesting thing is that many of them didn't get reelected, although I don't have stats at hand to back that assertion.

There will not be any secession.
That is a fulmination by a sore loser. He is the one with a belly ache. Forget about him; he is not worth the time or energy.

I think it's time you let this sink in. It's nothing personal against you or other southern DU'ers, we know you try. But you're surrounded by people of a sort who should not be trusted with the care of houseplants, much less carry such a large portion of how our nation decides policy.

Grits, the people around you... the folks who elect a dead man just to ensure the Republican party gets to call the shots without voter accountability? They're not going to listen to you. What you say... it's not going to change them. And the sad thing is... they're the ones who are in charge. And barring some wacky demographics change... that's just not likely to change.

Try as you might, Grits... but your neighbors, these toe-gnawing miscreants who reinstated a Supreme Justice who was removed from the bench for Ethics violations because they were certain it's what GAWD wanted... These people are a fucking millstone around our collective necks. Bless you for trying, but... Man, it's just not working. I wish I could give you a magic recipe to fix it, but damn. You and I both know these people have been living in a bubble and have been doing so since 1876 - Fox news don't have a damn thing on that record. Better men and women than yourself have tried harder for longer, and it's still the same.

So now, your idiot neighbors are gibbering about secession again because... well really, it's the only fucking thing that these idiots know about. They really think it's a threat, that the universe will fucking stop right then and bow and scrape and beg the south to stay on. However, we all know that your idiot neighbors aren't going to get anywhere with it. You know this too, right?

The way I see it, these idiots are trying to hold the rest of the nation hostage by holding themselves hostage. The rest of us are simply saying "go ahead; dare ya," knowing full damn well nothing will come of it. End result, the idiots back off, look like even bigger idiots, and you have a weak spot to capitalize on.

Assuming of course you could take a break from griping about how mean DU is to the south for all of two minutes. I know, it's hard, you're from the south and goddamn it you are entitled *princess stomp!*

Huh....

That's what I thought of the Bush administration.

And bigoted.

And most certainly intolerant.

with no qualifying explanations what so ever are often matters of deflection or inarticulateness in the face of challenge, which is yours?

Congratulations on having the ability to hork 'em out, though. Some of us have hidden posts from calling actual bigots "bigots."

Funny how that works out, I guess.

the idiots of texas are beyond help. they deserve all the scorn everyone can give them. those that aren't idiots, I will sit next to you. I for one am SICK AS SHIT of southern asshats calling out the north and every place else. I can call them whatever I want back. I am speaking to them. Grits, I feel your pain. Alaska used to be blue. Now when the southern oil companies came they bought out the legislature and turned stupid into public policy.

I say this as someone whose family comes from Virginia, Missouri and Carolina when it all was one state. Fuck the idiots of Texas who want to be free. let them. The drug cartels will have a new foothold and they will understand when the federal money goes what poverty feels like. If that is what it takes, I am not against it. For the duration, you and yours can live at my house.

The demographics are changing.
We are getting more congressional seats. So it would behoove some of you supercilious people to help those of us here who have been fighting for years.

AND ME TELL YOU ONE THING!
You have no idea about my neighbors or anybody down here. You make broad brush statements about even the many people who did vote for Obama. You couldn't tell the backasses from those who are progressive because you see us all through those bigoted glasses you are wearing.

More minorities and others move in AND the hidebound, hardheaded mooks are getting older. There are younger ones just like them, but not as many. Thy can't stop time and progress only stops if we do.

As far as mean goes, DU doesn't hold a candle to what I've faced in my lifetime. I expect it from certain people. What is disheartening is coming here and finding no rest. It's like being attacked by
those who are supposed allies. If you are from the South, some people will gladly dump on you even as you are trying to work down here.

And I'll gripe or whatever you call it until the end of time if I want to. I'm not entitled to anything. Newsflash: I am allowed to express myself here unless they made you Content Queen. In addition, I don't stomp my feet because I don't want anybody to hear me coming and the only Princess I know is my neighbor's cat.

You better get down off that high horse before you fall off and break your neck, bless your heart!

And every single family member of mine except one maternal uncle being scattered between Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia. Surely I have no idea what I'm talking about despite long experience, continued correspondence, and continued reading of several newspapers in addition to whatever else pops up in the news and on DU.

As you would have noticed, if you weren't so fucking busy being a martyr, I do acknowledge there are decent progressive people in the south. It's simply that the dangerous cretins are the ones in charge because they outnumber you guys, set policy, and some of them are making the rest of you look incredibly stupid with their new secession gibberish.

Your state has a fun new discriminatory "voter ID" law on the books that comes into effect next year. I suggest you not try to call other people bigots for thinking that's a sign your region isn't a shining land of progressive sentiment.

Whether they are backed by those in charge or anywhere near a majority of voters is open to question.
I never said that this region was a shining land of progressive sentiment. I said there were people here working for progressive causes and that there were more than you think. In addition, just because there are idiots down here doesn't mean you aren't a bigot. Their stupidity doesn't trump yours.

You also call me a martyr because I defend the good people who ork down here and try to bring change? That's a warped definition.

As far as control goes, getting the power back in a lot of states has to be started at local levels. That is where peope are elected to statehouses and they are who draw district voting lines. They take great pains to divide areas into districts that have them with a majority of voters. Getting that control back is not easy.

If you think that getting rid of the South will create a northern country devoid of racial problems, poverty, and bigotry you are dead wrong. It's easy to dump all the woes on us. Good luck with Shangri-La.

that the difference between Democratic votes in red states and blue states is 10-15% for most of them.

So no matter where you live, most of your neighbors are just as ignorant and bigoted as hers no matter where she lives.

again, what do they think is going to happen when some state or local schmucks roll up on Ft Hood and demand they turn over all the cavalry equipment or something? even the right wing soldiers would be pretty pissed off.

Most of us realize what you've stated here. From the blue state of Michigan - thank you for your difficult work.

...is them setting up their own reservation and them self-deporting to it. And they lost, so they are the ones who have to move.


Using the correct terminology kinda kills whatever romance they have with the idea.

The Federal government can and will act to protect the Union, by any means necessary. It has done it before. Talk of secession and of allowing our nation to dissolve is just talk.
It might be instructive for those who think that this is a real option to read the actual history of the Civil War. Large parts of the south, such as W. Va., Eastern Tennessee, non slaveholder parts of Georgia and even South Carolina opposed the war and resisted their new "government" from the start.
In the north there were many who supported the south, Maryland was one where Lincoln used the military to prevent the state legislature from meeting to secede. Ohio, where the Democratic candidate for governor was sent south.
Like it or not, we are one nation and as a people have the duty and obligation to protect the citizens of the blue states and the red states.

It just won't. The United States would not allow it to happen. Furthermore, any talk of secession is just that, talk. You will never see any state or group of states formally announce their desire to secede.

The only state that I could possibly foresee seceding might be Hawaii - and even then it would have to be a mutual agreement between Hawaii and the US, not a unilateral action.

but it would be an interesting situation however terrible. It would be nice to silence this shit once and for all. Secession is a zero sum game for the south. The brits won't help them and they wouldn't be able to fend off the north. Sad all around that these apes still exist.

is just red meat being thrown out there for the demented Repub's constituents. All bloviating noise - meaningless blather and bluster. It is no more going to happen than NASA is going to start harvesting green cheese from the moon.

Strutting, chest beating and teeth gnashing from silly know nothings. Just a bunch of Repub governors last efforts to hang on to their base.

The petulant 3 year can't get their way and threatens to run away and join the circus and you think the problem is the parent saying "go ahead"?

Let them go and don't let Oklahoma hit you in the ass on the way out.

somewhere and we give it to the conservatives and laze faire capitalists as a gift? Then they can conduct all the political, economic and social experimentation they want without all of us fearing the consequences.

In the real word, if we even got that far, would expose these pro secession groups as a minority. I would be shocked if they reached 20% of the vote.

Realize these referendums require 80% or more of registered voters to participate and strong majorities to pass.

I give Texas, due to Perry, slightly better odds than flying pigs to even go there. The rest of the governors, flying pigs is about right.

What worries me is that it is minorities who start civil wars.

have emigrated from Texas to California or New York (or any other state), that Texas should revert to Mexico's sovereignty. If we're turning the clock back to 1860, let's just go ahead and keep on turning back to 1847.

And then I said, "But I doubt Mexico would have you." To which another DUer responded, "Mexico already has too many criminals."



After one of these pro-secesh Texas yokels wished an early death upon me by starvation on Facebook, I responded by advocating that Sherman v 2.0 be sent to Texas for some additional housekeeping. No response from said yokel as of yet.

Methinks someone needs a booster shot to his or her sense of humor.

Texas became independent in 1836, and a state in 1845. However, 1847 was the year that Brigham Young led his Mormons into Utah and declared "This is the place".

defeated Mexico in the Mexican-American War).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican%E2%80%93American_War

Maybe I had a brain fart?

It's the sort of non-issue slacktivist tantrum that people pull after things don't go their ways and will be forgotten in a few weeks. I'm not worried about it as much as I'm amused at the sheer silliness of some of them; you can find two or three hundred people in any state who will agree to anything.

It's not gonna happen, and if by some freak miracle it did, it would be made to un-happen exceedingly quickly.

I may joke about the South, but having a minority opinion makes you work that much harder. We in California get spoiled and we have OUR bubble too.

"What? You mean Marijuana still isn't legal???"

"Why would you go to church in the morning?"

"What???? Your boss voted for Bush???? But he seemed so normal..."

We are an immigrant nation. It is BECAUSE of this that we are strong, not in spite of it.

Does anyone else find that surprising? I know they have a large black population, but in 2008 Obama only got 11% of the white vote there (and Kerry only got 14% in 2004). On the other hand, Obama won 98% of the black vote in 2008 in Mississippi. Not sure what it was this year because no exit poll.

I know Mississippi hasn't been in play in a presidential race for a while, but with the large minority population, maybe that won't always be the case, especially if minorities continue to grow faster than whites. On the other hand, even Clinton couldn't win there, so maybe it is a lost cause. Does anyone remember if he competed in the deep south at all?

And am beyond disgusted by 'funny' people here who think it's a joke to slam those of us in red states. Threads like those (and this one to a much lesser extent) have made my Ignore list very robust since the election. I consider people who 'joke' like that (and then mock those who don't laugh) worse than wingnuts. Wingnuts, unlike the 'jokers,' don't know any better.

That said, if that's what they want, I support it. If they feel that it's simply so horrible here that they can no longer tolerate it, then I wish them the best of luck in establishing their own sanctum. Sometimes people just need to learn lessons for themselves, the vast majority of residents will likely tire quite quickly of living in a kleptocracy and vote to reincorporate.

Just because they leave does not preclude their peaceful return.