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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDavid Gergen-- "great men have affairs" ---Fuck you David!
Yeah Dave---fuck the wife and kids in the background who have to endure the public embarrassment because the errrrrr Great Men can't keep their dicks in their pants. Mr. Gergen---you win the Douchebag of the Week award!<snip>
David Gergen a friend of Gen. David Petraeus as well as the woman he reportedly had an extra-marital affair with said on Face The Nation this morning that great men have affairs and that those relationships can be very important to them in difficult times.
http://www.salon.com/2012/11/11/david_gergen_great_men_have_affairs/
On edit: This is what he said about the Clinton affair:
"We have our own set of village rules," says David Gergen, editor at large at U.S. News & World Report, who worked for both the Reagan and Clinton White House. "Sex did not violate those rules. The deep and searing violation took place when he not only lied to the country, but co-opted his friends and lied to them. That is one on which people choke.
"We all live together, we have a sense of community, there's a small-town quality here. We all understand we do certain things, we make certain compromises. But when you have gone over the line, you won't bring others into it. That is a cardinal rule of the village. You don't foul the nest."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/stories/quinn110298.htm
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)That'll go over well.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)too cowardly to admit they think this way.
Considering that this quote is taken out of context, I will take it on what it says: Significant, or powerful men have lovers outside of marriage. I think that is probably true: power is a terrific aphrodisiac for many women and men who stand far out ahead of the pack often have more than one woman at some point.
I will go so far as to say that humans are not, by nature, monogamous. If a couple can each go with having only one sex partner during the course of a lifetime--say, fifty years of marriage--more power to them. I would hazard that the vast majority of people do not do so and we had best not impose unnatural moral values on them.
I do not care that Clinton messed around, nor do I care that the general did so; my issue is that they did so (apparently) in a deceitful manner towards their spouse. Who knows, there is the possibility that their wives tacitly accepted that their men would mess around and only did not want it to become common knowledge and thereby become an embarrassment.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)and lust for power is what drives these high-profile affairs more than sex. You're mixing this up with the argument that humans are not by nature monogamous. That's a whole other debate IMO.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)David has something to hide.
psychopomp
(4,668 posts)but I respect him for speaking his mind. I am quite sure that, being none of your business, his sexual history is nothing that needs to be hidden. It is, by nature, something so private that nobody has a right to know its minutae. As is mine, yours and that of everyone else.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)he works for CNN. enough said.
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)In a nutshell.
And btw, Gergen, you fucker - did you say the same thing about President Clinton?
Kaleva
(36,312 posts)demmis19566ie
(29 posts)And this guy is a disgusting pig.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Clinton's big mistake was not his sexual flings. It was, as is so often the case, the coverup. Bringing other people into the lies, lying under oath, lying to the general public on TV. And, of course, having a fling with a barely legal subordinate. That's a no-no.
As far as great men having affairs (on the supposition that it relieves stress, I guess?), you don't have to be "great" to have an affair. Don't stats show that MOST men have affairs? That means that most of the men on TV talking about this are having affairs of their own.
Of course, women have affairs, too.
But when you're in a delicate, high level, nat'l security position, the rules are different for you. You can't just go out and tie one on, for example, pole dancin' and such, just 'cause you feel like it.
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)republican....These people are truly amazing.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)In fact it's the mainstay of their values.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)great and small.
Kaleva
(36,312 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Both parties in the Petraeus matter are married to other people.
Kaleva
(36,312 posts)loli phabay
(5,580 posts)Its probuably a lot more common than you would think.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)has nothing to do with great or not, man or woman.
and it is not as many people as the cheaters like others to believe.
On the Road
(20,783 posts)Kinsey estimated that about half of married men cheat. Unlike some of his other findings, this one has held up and been confirmed by more recent studies:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17951664/ns/health-sexual_health/t/many-cheat-thrill-more-stay-true-love/
http://www.catalogs.com/info/relationships/percentage-of-married-couples-who-cheat-on-each-ot.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-cheating/2012/02/08/gIQANGdaBR_story.html
If you believe that everyone who has an affair "lacks character," then you have to apply that to Martin Luther King, Franklin Roosevelt, John Kennedy, and whole host of other liberal icons and people who are otherwise great human beings. You might be in the minority on this.
It is true that some people have no moral bounds, but a lot of people overstep their bounds when they are confident, sanguine, and full of life. It is not inevitable, nor is it excusable, but it is human nature.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)On the Road
(20,783 posts)I had no idea the estimates were so divergent. I have seen several studies reported in the 50% range, but the study you cited is very respectable.
There is obviously nothing wrong with condemning infidelity. My point was when you characterize half the population as having no character, you have to reexamine the question. You can say it's a flaw or a sin, but if it's that widespread it looks more like a matter of human nature.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)we do, or we dont.
it is a process. once you step over the line of can i.... it is a matter of convincing yourself you can. then comes excuses and validations in committing the behavior that will hurt another. it is a process. but, process it is.
it really bother me when people say, we are all capable. ya, we can all do it. doesn't mean we all would ever do it for any reason.
no different from when someone hits another. and they say, he/she lost it. not really. ever. their is a point when one decides.
i think it is about character.
i looked for a study that i had read recently where they exactly said, not about gender, about character. they had other indicators for strong character and lack of character. i couldnt find it.
but, just recently there was a study saying the majority of people that cheat, also had a parent that cheated. that is validation for behavior thru example.
it is like saying that 75-92% (depending on study) of women that get into prostitution were sexually abused as children.
not all that are sexually abused get into prostitution. but the vast majority in prostitution were abused.
the same with this. not all who had parents cheat. but, the majority that cheat had at least one parent that did.
i do not look at it as a moral issue. or religious right or wrong.
pragmatically.
leftstreet
(36,109 posts)regnaD kciN
(26,044 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)I just might hire a private detective.
Enrique
(27,461 posts)David might as well scream his confession from the rooftops.
Lefta Dissenter
(6,622 posts)struggle4progress
(118,295 posts)frazzled
(18,402 posts)Oh, wrong. That's not what he said. He talked about "fouling the nest."
"We all live together, we have a sense of community, there's a small-town quality here. We all understand we do certain things, we make certain compromises. But when you have gone over the line, you won't bring others into it. That is a cardinal rule of the village. You don't foul the nest."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/stories/quinn110298.htm
I just posted the same thing above in my OP a minute after you did.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)Now it is all so different...
Gergen needs to GO AWAY!
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)Obama and W are probably exceptions. You know Obama hasn't. That would be running 24/7 on Fox.
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,869 posts)Something tells me he wouldn't.
NoPasaran
(17,291 posts)I always thought he was a bit of a prig.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)NoPasaran
(17,291 posts)The man who brought nutball religion to the national political stage. We have yet to recover.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)NoPasaran
(17,291 posts)He opened the floodgates and the Republicans out-Jesused us.
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,869 posts)And I would rather have a "love thy neighbor" "my brothers keeper" Christian than the Jesus was a homophobic free market capitalist Christians that run rampant in politics today.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)He "lusted in his heart," if you'll recall. So no, he didn't, at least not while in the White House.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)JFK. Ike. Clinton. FDR. Jefferson. Tiger Woods.
Hahahaha! Just thought I'd throw that one in.
Archae
(46,337 posts)He conceived a kid in a White House closet!
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)"Gone to the White House, haw haw haw!"
Grover Cleveland.
kskiska
(27,045 posts)He married for the first time during his second term.
a kennedy
(29,673 posts)Ugh....I'm so sick and tired of "leaders" whomever they may be being lead around by their lust of women.....UGH..... I just can NOT deal with it. Am I the only one that feels this way???
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)it!
It's a total disgrace. Gergen should go away...
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)Is anyone else thinking bestseller here?
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)are not words that go together in my mind.
vankuria
(904 posts)butterfly77
(17,609 posts)LeftInTX
(25,380 posts)geardaddy
(24,931 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)to match his mini brains.
that's what they say, you know.
moondust
(19,993 posts)Petraeus certainly knew an affair, if discovered, would cost his top secret clearance and career yet he didn't have the discipline to resist. And somebody that public will have trouble hiding everything.
Civil servants and military don't get the same treatment as elected officials in such cases but I don't know the details. Look at all the congressmen and senators and at least one President who remained in office after extramarital activities became known.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...where "great men" are allowed their peccadilloes, or their harems... The reason it did not apply to Clinton, of course, is that in Gergen's world Clinton was not a "great man". But the neocon general Petraeus, of course he's a "great man" and we lesser beings should not be allowed to sit in judgment. And too bad about wifey, but you know, women exist primarily to serve their mast... er, their menfolk. And the deal you make as a wife is, he supports you financially and you support him in everything else without question.
Well guess what Mr. Gergen: Petraeus used piss-poor judgment at the very least, as evidenced by the classified materials that were found on his lady-love's computer. So while I don't give a damn about his personal life, I do give a damn about how he conducts himself when he's the general in charge of our entire operation in Afghanistan, and then when he becomes the head of the freakin' CIA!
bongbong
(5,436 posts)IOKIYAR
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)That adultery is subject to the UCMJ and both parties wore, one still does as a reservist, wear the uniform of the US Army?
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)1. Great "Men" have affairs.
No, a large percentage of ALL people, male or female, rich or poor, famous or not, have affairs. Do I think most of them should lose their job for it? No. Nor does it make someone 'great' to have an affair.
2. Gergen did not say the same thing about Clinton when the same thing was going on.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)Name one
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Initech
(100,081 posts)Fuck off if you're an adulterer apologist like that.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)And I think it is sofa king funny that he thinks his opinion means anything anymore.
Honestly, I don't pay any attention to him when he is talking about ANY subject.
jillan
(39,451 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)jsmirman
(4,507 posts)A) a feminist
B) a great person and
C) a great writer.
I can't even imagine her listening to him say that.
Shilo
(101 posts)if this is the criteria David you are setting the bar very low, stupid man!!! Didn't know I was supposed to be having affairs during difficult times in my life. Boy I've been missing out
Jack Sprat
(2,500 posts)Gergen doesn't have to worry about having an affair. It just ain't happening for him. Only his Mom could go for that wildass comb-over.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)Um, David - who is Number Two?
union_maid
(3,502 posts)Gergen is a bit of a tool, but he's far from alone in that.
liberal N proud
(60,336 posts)Weak men let their little heads do the thinking and therefore have affairs.
Cicada
(4,533 posts)If we didn't care blackmail would be less effective. I figure about 75% of our leaders have affairs and I don't think it relates to job performance.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)'Great' men and women and your average men and women. I'm not willing to place more blame on one gender or the other.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)David Petraeus is the same age as me. 60 is an odd time in life. We are close to the end of our virility and we know it. After 40 years of marriage let's face it there is not the same sexual attraction as there was. Probably for David and Holly they were having relationships maybe 2-3 times a year. Tops 6 times a year. It just happens. Life has moved on for them. He meets a women who makes him feel wanted and special. He is getting attention like he hasn't had in years and even though he knows it is wrong he breaks down mentally. Sex like hate, greed and love and is very hard to control.
Many men and women in their fifties just want to be considered attractive and when a young women comes around and pays attention to you it is very difficult not to feel it. The same goes for women and if a man makes them feel attractive that is why that have affairs. It just a difficult time in life.
union_maid
(3,502 posts)He could have been nailing everything he could from the his first deployment on.
trumad
(41,692 posts)Act like a fucking Man and keep your dick in your pants.
You want to play, then you pay.
If he was errrrr so lacking attention---then ask for a divorce and have at it.
He's a world class hypocrite who most likely signed off on many being discharged for the same behavior that he just got busted on.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)I don't think you are 60 but if you are and it's easy for you great. However for a lot of sixty something's I think it is a tough time.
union_maid
(3,502 posts)I'll be 63 in a month and so will my husband. I think if you reach the age of 50, never mind 60, and still feel like being attractive to the opposite sex is the be all and end all to the point where you'd take monumentally stupid risks then there's a problem. Male or female. We're supposed to grow up at some point.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)if what I say doesn't have some truth to it. I bet he says I am accurate. We all don't grow up the same. Men love their virility and we don't have menopause that signals an end. 60 is complicated for men. As much as we hate "trophy wives" it is the feeling of being viral that plays a great part in the action of divorcing and going with someone half their age.
union_maid
(3,502 posts)People can still think. Women go through plenty of that at the age where they become "invisible" to men their own age, which is usually much younger. But if you let it go, it's kind of liberating. Hell, even among the single people I know who are my age, the ones in pursuit of validation from the opposite sex do not seem nearly as happy as the ones who don't worry about it much.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)can easily be tied together. Let's see did you ever have unprotected sex or sex in a car? How many people our age got pregnant in high school. Dumb but when sex is involved people are dumb.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)and that ego does not control their life. others need that ego stroked to feel their worth.
it is about character.
to the world petreaous looks like a foolish old man. not a way to end his public life.
trumad
(41,692 posts)It's an easy choice for me... Lie to my wife, kids and friends and pretty much humiliate them----orrrrrrrrrrr---- listen to my dick and not give a shit.
Again---if it's ohhhh so miserable and you just can't take it anymore,,,,, be a Man, ask for a divorce, and then have at it.
That's being a MAN!
Ganja Ninja
(15,953 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)Bosso 63
(992 posts)But, as a culture, I think it would be better if we moved toward the "French" side of the continuum and away from the "Puritan" end.
Lying to your spouse and family...?
Bosso 63
(992 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)screwing around, cause their society says so.
it is wonderful for the men. like affairs were accepted much more readily from men in the past in the u.s.
not so fair to the women.
ask those sophisticated french men how they feel about their women having affairs. not so much.
yes, a man is always pointing to the french, or the italians.
bet in todays world, women in france are not nearly so accepting just like women in american.
Bosso 63
(992 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Bosso 63
(992 posts)their life. I think Bill Clinton did a crappy thing, but he also did positive things. If that is agreeing with the "repug position", then I'm guilty as charged.
Just to be clear, I think its WRONG to have an affair. My point is that human beings make mistakes, and if you see that then I don't know what to tell you.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)conclusion. that is the fail.
like, questioning going to war in iraq. the repug will say. so you want all the muslims to come over here and kill us all.
and it absolutely is about character.
Bosso 63
(992 posts)RandiFan1290
(6,237 posts)Nooo! Can't be true!
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)her part insignificant, jsut a use for that great man.
and am i getting this right? the problem is the friends being lied to? fuck the mates being lied to. but the problems is the friends?
wow
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)his or her behavior. They ruined their spouses lives with their selfishness. There's nothing 'great' about either of them at this point.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)We just hear about them when those men are "great."
David Gergen
get the red out
(13,466 posts)The Today Show interviewed him yesterday about the Petraeus deal. OMG! Insane.
hlthe2b
(102,292 posts)which might give any male DUers thinking similarly some pause....Is this really an attitude you'd like to share with RETHUGs? (hopefully they are infinitesimally few and far in between)
no_hypocrisy
(46,122 posts)rsweets
(307 posts)have affairs ...
Anthony McCarthy
(507 posts)And they mostly have them with women who are having an affair too.
The affair is a private matter, the world of military adulation that this exposes and possible impact on public policy are dangerous.
Sivart
(325 posts)I think Gergen looks like Roger...
[link:|
Horse with no Name
(33,956 posts)You cannot have secrets and be the top Spy at the CIA.
It compromises you.
End of story.
I don't care where ANYONE puts their dick--as long as it is in a consenting adult.
But this shit is not what is important.
He fucked around. His girlfriend got into his computer....and there was a massive breach of security.
The fucking is incidental.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)The people out after power are by and large weirdos for whom every relationship is transactional. They tend not to have friends, more like people who can get them things. Their married life is like that too. They tend to marry young to a daughter of a rich guy/daughter of a powerful guy. Think Blago. Actually Petreius also I guess. Later in life they feel entitled to cheat since their marriage is strictly transactional and the wife spends all the money - really, they think like this. Again, they are weirdos. This is why I think politicians should be despised.
The people who are suddenly wealthy can still be normal. They have a better car and nicer vacations but the family is still important. Or they start screwing the secretary.
Short versions: People with more options cheat more.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)it works for them, in gaining things which validate their life from their perspective.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Fuck you, David!
global1
(25,253 posts)Oh the strange webs we weave.
Check out this post and read about Gergen, Bain and Broadwell and check out the pic of Broadwell with Rove.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021798317
Anytime something strange is going on in government circles - think the Valerie Plame outing - Rove just happens to be involved like Forest Gump.
Is my tinfoil hat on too tight?...... Hmmmmm........