That is all

on the spot as well! Very very bad in so many many ways.

Be fed

will be harmed is the same level of suspension of logic and analysis that led to the a Great Giant White Weather Balloon Panic! No transmitters? Oops.

The Pentagon is out of control.

Draws nary a peep...

those decisions without Biden's approval. It was Biden's decision. Why are you twisting this?

Also, factories are not "churning out" more cluster bombs. They already exist in our arsenal. They are being sent for use in one specific region for one stage of the war, to dislodge Russian troops from a current strategic stronghold. There is no plan for using them throughout the war in other regions.

I don't like the use of cluster bombs, either. I remember when Bush and his gang used them in Iraq. But, as bad as they are, it is what Ukraine needs at this point. I do support Ukraine's self defense. Defeat the Russians first and get them out of Ukraine. Then clear the ground of unexploded bombs before farmers start plowing.

What say you to NATO allies who have banned the use…not consulted?

decisions and not send any. AFAIK, they are not asked to send them. The cluster bombs are being sent by the US.

And what's with the BS about Ukraine not "using them properly?" They will use them against Russian troops who are entrenched in the Russian occupied region of Ukraine where they need to be driven out. Or did you think that Ukraine intends to bomb it's own people in other regions, like Kiev?

Bombs are horrible. War is horrible. Ukraine did not choose to be invaded. But shit happens and now they need to defend themselves.

I'm a big no on cluster bombs....

has to prepare the public battlefield first before any violation of international norms.

Like when a giant white balloon with no transmission capability and giant reflective solar panels was turned into a clusterfuck of propaganda…very useful for the Pentagon propagandists…a goldmine! Now the walk back…

They seem very eager to deny Ukraine the tools they need to repel the Russian invaders.

Hmmm.

the end of this war - then I'm for it.

Last edited Mon Jul 10, 2023, 01:20 PM - Edit history (1)

I know what weapons are and what they do.

In war, all standards of normal moral behavior fall away. The thing takes you through a looking glass. Everything done in war is meant to do immediate harm, whatever eventual good may be hoped will come of it.

In war, it can be useful to hold the moral high ground, but when this decision is made it is never made out of virtuous intent, but because some calculation has been made that appearing virtuous is of some use to the war effort.

Every use of any weapon rests on a calculus of whether or not its use will achieve an effect of greater value than the revulsion of others at the horror of its use. In this calculation nothing is absolute; everything is a question of utility. There is no weapon of war which is not cruel and lasting in its effects, there is no action in war which does not harm non-combatants, whether immediately or in days to come. Even a principled opposition to war serves only, in any particular case of war, to align with the side which has the most artillery. In the specific case where the war being opposed as a matter of principle involves the objector's homeland, the principled opposition aligns with and acts to strengthen the enemy.



"They say war is an art, but it's not. It mostly consists in outwitting people, inflicting suffering on the helpless, and robbing widows and orphans, and that's not art: that's business."

Going to awkward NATO meeting tomorrow with the many nations of NATO who also ratified that treaty into law., and those that didn’t.

I suppose it's possible you could learn....


"I should like to take you seriously, but doing so would affront your intelligence."

Bit disappointed.

Including Cluster Munitions.

Ukraine has used them too. This war is murder. Entire cities have been destroyed. If there's a 100K dead at this point, I wouldn't be surprised.

We've tried to draw a line for "this is how far we'll go, but no further" multiple times in supporting Ukraine's DEFENSIVE battle against Putin's barbaric, grinding, bulldozing invasion, but that line keeps slipping the longer the carnage continues.

In for a penny, in for a pound.

Clubbing makes money, selling weapons makes money, it's all good right?