One of Burt Lancaster's greatest roles IMO

navarth, you were not alone. Great book, too.

It just shows what discriminating taste in movies you have.

but I also thought of David Petraeus' antithesis, Smedley Butler.

y'know I once sent a letter to George Clooney asking him to make a movie of the Smedley Butler story. With Clooney's history of making important historical accounts like 'Good Night and Good Luck', and 'The Good German', he would be a natural to make a fine film/cautionary tale about Butler.

Alas, the letter came back undeliverable. Too bad.

The agent can forward mail to him(whether they will or not is the big question).

Sounds like a good idea for a movie.

Smedley Butler, if I recall, was approached by some millionaires to assist in overthrowing FDR...but he turned on them and reported their efforts....

the parallel which could be drawn here are staggering...and worse yet...it is the ancestors and heirs of the same people involved...

probably not true...


probably

maybe not true

maybe

It's going to be an interesting year.

And then who is derailing Petraeus as a result of the putative putsch's failure?

not saying you're wrong -- at all (having grown up with a lot of bogus "lone nut" stories foisted on me and the rest of the public). Just trying to figure out what's going on.

I think that the general was part of an inside plan to make Obama look like Carter. Remember Reagan ordered the hostages to be held until after the election? Carter lost. I think they were trying to 'carterize' Obama and he knows it and the stuff is just beginning to hit the proverbial fan.

-- going back to Nixon's interference in the Vietnamese peace talks, so why wouldn't they use it again?

And welcome to DU!

Glad you're here! Nothing's too clear now, but CONSIDER THE INDIVIDUALS INVOLVED!!! Just remember the kinds of things they're capable of. kkkarl rove learned his shit at the knee of lee atwater, the un-dear departed RNC chair who was a true dirty trickster - I think he learned it at the knee of charles colson and the rest of the Watergaters. They practiced and staunchly believed in the political Dark Arts. They stopped at NOTHING to make sure they'd win. Crime? HAH! Who cared? Winning was the ONLY thing that mattered. Besides, if our side gets in, all investigations are canceled and even if not, we all get pardons!

I don't know why, but it always seems as though the sneaky, illegal, immoral stuff mostly seems to happen to GOPers. Mostly. I realize there are Dems who are guilty of nogoodnik-ism and over-ambition. But even our worst compare to their worst like a grain of aquarium gravel compares to a brick. I wouldn't put it past some of these fiends to try anything and everything they thought they might be able to get away with.

I remember when little monica goodling testified before Congress how she'd "crossed the line" from legal to illegal during the bush/cheney years:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monica_Goodling

I think it was she who also recalled, during testimony, how when they were all brand new in their jobs, their main focus was "how do we get around the laws/rules/regs" to do what we want to do anyway? I remember hearing that and thinking - "and WHY can you not accept the rules that are ON THE BOOKS, and give up trying to violate them so much? WHY are you so unwilling to follow the letter of the law when it's not part of your evil little political sneaky-ass hit-job agenda?

These republi-CONS - they're ALWAYS up to something. If they're republi-CON, COUNT ON IT. Take it to the bank. They're prepared to do ANYTHING to win, legal or not. Sneaking, conniving, lying, distorting, dirty tricks, bribes, cheating, cutting corners, breaking the rules, violating the law. Is THAT what they mean by "freedom"? Is THAT the "freedom" they're always yowling about that our side is supposedly hell-bent on taking away from them? THAT kind of "freedom"? Thank God that sometimes they're stopped. For all their protestations about how Christian and moral they are and how important their "morals" are - they are the MOST UN-Christian and amoral individuals ever to suck air off our planet.

... and I won't, because I have to go live life for a while. Does PO or AGHolder have what it takes to get to the bottom of this? I bet you the Senate crack staff investigators are busy as little bees, probably since Romney came out on the night of the attack on Sep 11 with that smerk on his face and snide remarks. Yeah, they both knew something when they came to that first debate. Maybe that explains PO's demeanor that night? My mind is going wild with scenarios. Whew, is this the wingers "Waterloo"?

CNN's compilation of the events that they know to date (Wed, 11/14, am) with lots of videos and a timeline as they know it.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/14/us/petraeus-allen-investigation/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Something smells absolutely rotten . . .

so there was a coup (military?) planned that was dependant on a stolen election?



Please spell out what you are saying. Thanks.

Do I look like Eric Cantor?

I thought you had more to offer than "creative speculation" ... You usually do.

but USUALLY, I don't read about generals ivolved with women involved with FBI agents involved with House Majority Leader's employees involved with...

You get my point...

I don't. That is the point of my posts.

If you suspect there was an attempted coup, say so. Expand on it!

You said it was not 'creative speculation', and now you say you've no idea what happened, ie you're speculating. Are you just saying you're not creative?

What 'famous press conference' are you talking about, anyway?

in reference to R$'s little not-so-surprising late-night surprise press conference that blew up in his face because he was out there with bedroom hair spouting off about something that hadn't actually happened yet but had more than enough blustering BS to spew about something he knew little to nothing about. Although he was on script about events that ended up playing out differently than the script which made him a laughing-stock instead. That press conference.

or Benghazi. I think you are close to the "mark". I remember thinking when Rmoney pulled that "all too soon press conference" before an actual official statement by the State Department or the President was made, something was up. I thought he had to be either the most stupid presidential candidate of all time, or he knows something. My gut instinct tells me it was the latter.

Instead of military goons storming the White House, it's more politic to make some pretense of legitimacy through vote suppression, hacking voting machines, stuffing the ballot box, and giving a push by trying to Carterize Obama by making Benghazi into Obama's Iran Hostage Crisis.

Thankfully, that plot backfired on the GOP, so just pick up a bowl of popcorn and enjoy the show as Obama starts taking scalps...

Seven Days in May. It hit me that way, too. Scary.

We are so fortunate to have President Obama in the White House.

I reserve the rights for use of speculation, speculative, and the as yet invoked wild-assed guess, which I'll hold in reserve...

what was the goal again? To embarrass a bunch of Republican connected generals with their peccadillos and email affairs? Or are you saying those generals were trying a military coup but got taken down by Andrea Mitchell?

I don't get it. Who gets hurt, who gets the benefit?

That is why it fell apart and was exposed after President Obama won. If Romney won the republicans were going to bring charges against Obama and members of his staff over Benghazi. Guess who would have been the star witness for the republicans at the hearings and spinning whatever story they told him to spin?

Yes it is speculation but for those connecting the dots it is not too farfetched.

If you think having a woman in a high position to help republicans even at the expense of the country is farfetched then just remember one name - Judith Miller. It also involved the CIA, her outing an agent, and jeopardizing the lives of innocent people.

supposed to blow before the election and GET him elected, don't you think?

I believe one of the reasons even republicans were upset with his conference was because he was getting ahead of things. They had a timeline planned and they didn't want him blowing it.

The plan depended on Romney being elected first and republicans winning more seats. They really believed that was going to happen. Just another reason Rove had a breakdown and remember there are photos of Broadwell with Rove. Just saying the way i see it.

I find that hard to swallow. If Obama had lost then there would be no need to discredit him or his cabinet. He'd be out in January.

No one still believes this was just about an affair.

by emerging information.

No it would not be moot because they are consumed with hate. They wanted to bring charges against President Obama to destroy his legacy. Even now they are still bringing up the nonsense of impeachment. Even now Romney and Ryan are spewing racist garbage. They are sick people filled with so much hate they allied themselves with loathsome people and it backfired.

Crap, I hit enter too soon.

What I have found today. One is a relationship map with a friend of the fmr genrl's only friend in his relationship map... someone was asking if gen DP was involved with PNAC... he had some close connections to it, like two steps away

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=304897


Then there was the question about Hillary and her stance. In the article, though long, a number of dots are connected as well as support for some of our speculations...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=304840

You would be familiar with the language of the Foundation trilogy and thus my motto

It pays to be obvious but only if you have the reputation for subtlety.

Generally I'm a little more subtle.

But it's November.

I'll go so far as to wonder who it was who funded the movie that was believed to be the cause of the riots...who did the translated youtube version?

I'm cynical enough to believe they could have tried to deliberately trigger unrest and it spun out of control when it led to the murder of Ambassador Stevens. I have considered that a possibility all along.

The intent, as discussed elsewhere here, to "Carterize" the President. I think they wanted to do more than make him a one-termer. I think they wanted to destroy any and all legacy...to make sure we all got the loud and clear message about who controls this country and who is appropriate to live in the white house.

Assassination these days would be too obvious. But character assassination, prison if possible, to teach those uppity nigras a lesson.

I am not ready to speculate as far as you have but this whole thing stinks. Top Brass, CIA, FBI, Cantor, etc. Whether it's providing secret info to republican media stalwarts, election influence, coup, I don't know, but it is not about sex.

Usually when these guys resign over a sexual matter, they say they are resigning for "personal reasons" and then the girlfriend/boyfriend information comes out later, if at all.

Petraeus, oddly, came right out with it. It seems like it was done to neutralize any hold someone might have had over him. His secret is out and now it can't be held over his head.

Bigger plots have fallen apart over less. You can count on money, patriotism, greed, power, and other motivators to manipulate a scenario forward. The one thing you can't count on are a humans pride and what seemingly minor issue that can trigger it causing the collapse of all the planning.

he would have been allowed to just resign and claim "personal reasons" if there were no more to the story than that. Instead he comes out in the press conference with "I'm resigning because I had an affair."

I think the shit hit the fan when the mistress went loony on the other woman, but that could have been kept quiet. Petraeus himself is the one who revealed it. I don't know if it's significant, but I find it very unusual.

It's a sideshow that the media will happily run with.

The real reason being closer maybe to treason ?

all that is subsequently coming out just reinforces my skepticism.

acolyte girls. I wouldn't put money on that 37 years of faithfulness.

stated an opinion, and I have absolutely no obligation to "prove" a damned thing to you. You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

It is you who need to substantiate this opinion with some facts if you expect anyone to be other than "skeptical."

that's your privilege.

I am skeptical as to what I hear from the dissemblers in the Rethug Party and those responsible for ensuring the safety of our Nation, including, but not limited to, those who told us of WMD's presence in Iraq "without question". So I have to be shown that it is only about sex. That is my prvilege as a thinking human being who has endured a lifetime of GOP lying.

Can't wait for this to unravel.

what you have "heard" or think that you have heard, and you may be correct in your assumption that this is some gigantic conspiracy theory gone wrong.

I tend to believe that the FBI sat on this until after the election (for reasons known only to them), and that the relationship between the General and the "other woman" may or may not have been purely sexual. I just honestly do not have enough evidence or information to make an informed guess at what the real story may be, and I doubt very much that either the MSM or Congress does either.

I also tend to believe that Occam's Razor applies to most occurrences, barring contradictory evidence.

Peace...

and Geraldo was BEGGING fux to stop talking about "Been-Gauzy".

We do still remember Kennedy don't we? Bay of Pigs?

And to think that with many of the same cast of characters in the shadows that the same wouldn't happen again is naivety.

Reply #20
In the discussion thread: Attempted Military Coup D'etat [View all]
10:59 AM
Mme. Defarge
20. My (current) theory ...


Benghazi was the October Surprise. It went terribly wrong.

The bad information fed to State was deliberate.

Romney was all over it the moment the story broke. And, it was true, it would not have happened had he been POTUS.

Obama knew exactly what was going on by the time of the second debate, and was daring Romney to "go there" when he said "Please proceed, Governor." Obama was not taunting Mitt because he knew he was leading him into a semantic trap. Romney pounced on what he believed was a (forced) blunder by the president. Obama's "gotcha" moment over wording was just the way it played out in the debate.

Hillary, and also Bill, understood what had gone down. This might have fueled Bill's passion in campaigning for Obama.

The exposure and humiliation of the general is the beginning of the great retribution.

IMO

I think they were behind the movie too. It was intended to trigger unrest, both as cover for attack and as distraction/lies to be fed to the administration as cause.

I think everything spun out of control with Ambassador Stevens killed. That, as pcintern wrote above, Romney was "on script" with his smirky press announcement, but events themselves had gone off script. Hence the backfire; that Romney came off looking like the creepy thug he is, dancing on the Ambassador's grave, and it blew up in his face.

So they did the ol' management trick of letting it go for a couple weeks, and then coming up with a new reason to try to blame Obama for Benghazi. And that failed to take hold, and then came Sandy to obliterate their plans.

I dread to think what would have happened had the succeeded. I think we all dodged a bullet, and that includes the President.

are you actually postulating that the CIA planned the attack on the US consulate? Really? US spooks plotting the murder of a US ambassador? Outright treason seems like a stretch, unless you have a few more dots connected that you're not sharing with us.

Lews Tambs, right-wing ambassador to Colombia under Reagan, pissed the Medellin Cartel off by actually opposing drug production and smuggling. He was transferred to Costa Rica, and the Cartel had a reward out for his assassination.

CBS News reporter Leslie Cockburn (from '60 Minutes' and 'West 57th St." reported in her '87 book 'Out of Control' that our right-wing off-the-shelf rogue intel operation (that was exposed in the Iran-Contra scandal) had a false-flag operation planned to assassinate Tambs and pin it on the Sandinista government next door to Costa Rica. Thereby collecting the Cartel's reward, keeping the drug and gun smuggling operations safe, and creating an international incident pretext to go to war in Nicaragua.

The plan may have been simply to ignite civil unrest in the ME, which spun out of control.

Or it may have included an attack on the consulate, with the demonstrations and riots as a smoke screen.

There is an awful lot of smoke being blown right now.

We do know that 1%er Mitt Romney said something to the effect of needing a terrorist event to boost his election chances, IIRC back on his 47% tape.

We do know that some known and some unknown people made a disgusting, insulting movie and pushed it in the ME, knowing full well the result would be demonstrations, riots and possible attacks and killings.

We do know there is a photo linking Rove and Broadwell from an event this past summer.

We do know Broadwell had large numbers of classified documents stored in her home, as well as links to various CIA operatives.

We do know that the CIA, the MIC and numerous RWers have been involved in treasonous activities in the past.

The MSM never picked up on the rove pic, also the story moved to kelley after the pic surfaced.

even tho new info is coming out almost hourly, I don't think we'll ever know the whole part of it.

but yeh, Romney's presser about Benghazi was so out of place, every alarm bell rang for that one - and yours is as good a reason as any.

let's remember these are the scum of the earth people we are dealing with - mass murderers and grand thieves. Anything is possible.

....and then the quick pivot to Menendez.

Something went down.

some people are no fun at all.

large sticks up their large stick holders.

which is of course, against DU GD rules.

threat to break up the CIA

Smedley Butler proved that conspiracies are real.

Anyone that trusts these bloated budget busting departments are either a fool
or an idiot.No one wants to lose power.


Iran Contra proved that the CIA and military
were involved in some treasonous actions.

Got that right, ICC...

and he's smiling. It was taken after he turned away from the press pool. Creepy. And very suspicious considering the content of his remarks.

I started paying closer attention after that.

This:

[link:|

And yet, he's smiling as he walks away.
That's not right on sooo many levels.

a self-satisfied look on his face as if feeling confident that he just left a big pile of poo on PBO's desk. He had no real compassion for any of those people, psychopath that he is, and even went so far as to start talking about one of the former seals as though they were good friends. His story was quickly debunked and rebuked by family and real friends of the man. The seal's mom demanded that R$ stop using her son as a political prop and he kept doing it for a week or so. What a pile of poo HE is!

At Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:10 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

This is Seven Days In May, not "creative speculation"...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021807810

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Poster is claiming Petraeus scandal is not a regular scandal but an attempted coup which was thwarted. Not only the title of the message but the last two paragraphs explicitly describe this as a failed coup against the President. That is simply preposterous. This is literally "crazy talk".

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:30 PM, and the Jury voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Many of us who lived through the 60s and 70s know that the government is capable of great deception and great stupidity. Leave the post.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I think this is one that should have been alerted to hosts instead of to a jury. It's a SoP issue, not a ToS issue.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: I wasn't really sure where we should draw the line on these speculative theories, but this here looks like a pretty good place to do just that.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

That's how Watergate and Iran-Contra were initially defended/deflected.

Why are people so alert-happy? You don't like what someone's saying? Argue it out! Convince with words.

I think that's how it works.

if ToS isn't checked, then no one knows who the alerter is.

correct me if I am wrong but this is how I believe it works.

those are listed and I see who alerted as a SoP.

I guess there was a ToS as well...

anyway, good that the thread will stand.

our collective brain is Huge.

or is he a co-conspirator?

But I sure hope we do... decisively and not an explanation with too many dangling participles to leave us wondering for the next 70 to 90 years.

I do believe that President Obama getting reelected helped to put an end to it. What scares me is that if Romney had won they would have gone through with this plot.

It is a little frightening to see how far they had gone. Cantor needs to do some explaining.

Last night I was watching a PBS documentary called 'Park Avenue' by Alex Gibney. It featured the infamous 740 Park Avenue and the people who live there. I would not be surprised to find this traceable back to them.

'Seven Days In May" and "Paths Of Glory" are two of the best movies about the connection between politics and war. Paths Of Glory is my favorite but Seven Days in May is also a great movie.

Seriously, remember how Reagan/Bush had the Iranian hostages held and released after the election? Did they pay a political price for that bit of treason? Or the gaming of Ohio in 2004? Republicans are a private service Party...but they are only effective when they are in charge. The word ethics is utterly lost on the current body politic of Teapublicans.

That said, I do want to see an investigation into Cantor's role and what he did and/or didn't do. I want to know if this weasel committed a seriously grave violation of his oath of office.

that's a coup when they undermine people's ability to vote, to have their votes counted, or to stage a PR nightmare in order to devalue the leadership of the President of the United States.

other examples include 2000 and 2004 elections.

and other misadventures these chose.

they don't deal in reality but think they make their own realities.

Republicans.

Iraq was a war
they conspired to happen.



DON'T ANYONE FORGET THAT.

... Obama's 9-11 as it were: "Look, he didn't keep us safe from Terra! The brown folks the towels on their heads are killing blond white Americans overseas! We need soldiers on the ground and more more more money to the military machine! Oh and Vote for Mitt!"

Scared people generally tend to stop thinking & just do as they're told ... I think that's what the GOPMilitary was betting on & something FUBAR'd.

of Cantor being investigated by the ethics committee and a special prosecutor and then, hopefully, ousted is almost too good to be true. I hope it does go down that way though.

Running or connected to the military. And not trusting any of them at all, I've entertained a few "General Scott" theories myself.

Was Eric Cantor trying to re-light the extinguished fire? I just can't believe that Benghazi is not at the center of this. There's the Broadwell interview in Denver about captives in the consulate, which was denied. There's a Watergate worth of questions at this point.

Maybe it's time to stock up on tinfoil. Maybe not. The links certainly are intriguing. Problem is, though, that I don't think anyone here will believe the results of any investigation, and that's if there is any serious investigation.

I feel it was staged to make the Pres look bad, like the Iranian hostage deal, Romney came out so fast. Fox grabbed it and was running with it. All these investigations to figure out what happened. I think the Pres realized it was a set up and had he's own investigation. They knew after Rmoney won they could sweep it all under the rug. It served its purpose.
I also think the whole affair scandal is just an excuse. He had to give a reason for resigning so abruptly, it seemed to be the best one.

an event of synchronicity

Last edited Wed Nov 14, 2012, 04:12 AM - Edit history (5)

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So, let General Petraeus testify at the Benghazi Congressional Hearings. Televise it on C-Span. Show us that our government has got nothing to hide....most of us at least...except maybe the CIA (aka the "Committee to Intervene Anywhere&quot .
------------------
The CIA is denying an assertion made by David Petraeus' biographer and girlfriend that the agency held militants in Libya before the Sept. 11, 2012 attack. During a talk last month at the University of Denver, author Paula Broadwell said the CIA had detained people at a secret facility in Benghazi, and that the attack on the U.S. Consulate there was an effort to free those prisoners. President Barack Obama issued an executive order in January 2009 stripping the CIA of its authority to take prisoners. The move means the CIA can no longer operate secret jails across the globe as it had done under the administration of President George W. Bush.

"The CIA has not had detention authority since January 2009... Any suggestion that the Agency is still in the detention business is uninformed and baseless," CIA spokesman Preston Golson told CBS News.
(my words: Mr. Preston, would you be willing to say that while hooked up to a Polygraph or two?)

Reference Link:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57548494/cia-denies-it-detained-militants-in-benghazi

Is Petraeus ever going to be able to tell his side of the story (under oath), or will he go tits up like CIA Director Casey did? It's deja vu all over again.

Or, just maybe, they were trying to win an election??

The Profumo Affair comes to mind.

The coup failed, so Petraeus is paying the price.

With all the hubbub over the sex scandal, I've missed a lot of the detail/timing of how/when this was uncovered. Has anyone found a timeline of events? I'm particularly interested in Cantor's role. I understand that he was notified about of all this and kept quiet. And he was particularly quiet leading up to the election. What did he know and when did he know it?

Watergate, at least, involved a real crime.

A GI and his mistress frolicking in the office isn't.

making squooshy noises in Paula.

that is the boring part of the story, if you ask me.

Something about the Amero or UN Forces or something?

PCIntern, I've tuned out because the talking heads play this as just another sex scandal. All I've done so far is (a) feel sorry that the country just lost one of its most brilliant generals and (b) thank God the story didn't break until AFTER the election. Sex scandals are less than interesting to me, and the salacious gossip of the talking heads is tiresome. What you are proposing, though....

Now, I will stay tuned here for you and some of the few other astute writers as this shakes out. I certainly do remember Watergate, as well as the string of political assassinations that scarred my youth. And in my considered opinion, Bush vs Gore resulted in a bloodless coup d'etat.

So, thanks, and carry on.

By the way -- Barack Obama is still alive, and that means a lot.

Hekate

Some of us have never heard how brillian that he is. Maybe if we had more information, we might be able to agree.

Some of them are people I respect as sober and knowledgeable. They all seem to agree on his intellectual prowess and accomplishments.

And are baffled that he fell so far and so fast for this reason.

Reportedly, many people used to think that Robert S. McNamara was brilliant.

In fact, McNamara was quite stupid.

McNamara's "brilliance," such as it was, was in promoting himself as being brilliant.

In the absence of facts showing how Petraeus was brilliant, there's no reason to believe that he was brilliant in any way other than the way that McNamara was brilliant.

FBI carried out boxes of possible evidence of something from Broadwell's home yesterday in an "open investigation."

that none of this *really* had anything to do with who was humping who....But sex scandals are very "human", they are easy for the public to digest and relate to, and the news media will gnaw on that bone for a solid month...

I'd also said I don't think we'll ever know the real reason...

as is FUX Noise.