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H2O Man

(73,621 posts)
Sun Jul 30, 2023, 11:03 PM Jul 2023

Sharks

“You remember Huston’s plan? Implement it,” Nixon said. “I want it implemented on a thievery basis. Goddamn it, get in and get those files. Blow the safe and get it.”
Richard Nixon in June 1971; from Newsweek/ Wasington Post transcript in 1997.


The above quote isn't about Watergate. It is about the Brookings Institution. Nixon, as folks of my generation recall, was worried that Brookings had documentation oh his illegal attempts to sabotage LBJ's efforts to engage in "peace talks" in Vietnam. Nixon wanted Brookings firebombed, allowing people dressed as firemen to enter and blast open the safe to steal the documents. Within months, of course, Nixon replaced firemen with plumbers to make a series of break-ins lnown collectively as Watergate.

There have been numerous comparisons between Nicon's tactics and those if the defendent in the last week. There are many obvious similarities in their behaviors. Both had connections with organized crime long before becoming president. It is interesting to note that documents that became public in more recent years suggest that Nixon believed that a file which Castro sent documenting Dick's connections with the CIA-organized crime attacks on Cuba to Teddy Kennedy. Hence, he thought they were housed at Democratic Headquarters in the Watergate building.

The "plumbers," of course, included fellows who had been involved in attempts to destabilize the Cuban government. The recent HBO series reportedly did not make some of the characters as serious as they actually were -- admittedly, I did not see it. But most were capable, dangerous individuals. The defendent has been charged with hiring what politely could be called a lower class of criminals ...... rather than firemen and plumbers, he had techno-janitors hoping to erase recordings of his crimes.

Other than the quality of criminals, though, the modes of operation are much the same. Now, unlike the defendent, I do not think Nixon was a sociopath. Dick had numerous features from the Cluster B personality disorders, including obviously anti-social ones. For this reason, the two resorted to similat behaviors under pressure. In the legal system, prosecutors do not need to prove "motive," only document "how" crimes were done. Yet a prosecutor who proves motive -- the "why" -- generally makes for a stronger case.

As noted, there is documentation available now that tends to show why Nixon was afvocating a series of crimes that fit the infamous "Huston Plan." If he could have accomplished the same goals legally, he would have. But by their nature, they required crimes. I do not believe the same holds true with the defendent, though I recognize others may disagree. Thus, I think it may be useful to do something akin to a forensic MRI of the decaying grayish-orange matter between the defendent's ears.

By his very nature, the defendent prefers to lie and commit crimes, much more than he likes telling the truth or doing things the legal way. He delights in thinking he has fooled people -- and we see that he has fooled millions of citizens. Add to this that he was schooled by a disgraced mob lawyer, resulting to the defendent behaving much in the manner of a mob boss. But we know this, don't we? My saying it adds nothing new.

What I think is important in understanding the "why" is what a person is afraid of. Nixon obviously feared an accurate history of his connections and activities keeping him from being re-elected. Then he feared getting caught. As odd of a human as Dick was, his fears can be understood, though not his actions.

Now, in ways, this fits the defendent, as well. He fears being caught now, far more than he did when facing legal cases before he was president. Obviously, he considers the White House to be his only "safe space." But in order to return to the safety of the past, as Carlos learned in "Journey to Ixtlan," one most face their greatest fears and insecurities.

I note that we know the defendent has a phobia when it comes to sharks. He gets uncomfortable seeing them on a television screen, although there is absolutely zero chance he will encounter one. What is it that the defendent finds so unsettling about sharls? I will speculate it is their eyes. Interestingly, I've had a few associates say that Jack Smith has that exact same look in his eyes when he is focused on a target.

Severe pressures caused Nixon to get sick during much of his career. That's normal. But Watergate caused him to isolate, to drink heavily, and have episodes of striking out at "enemies" from a safe distance. On the other hand, the defendent attempts to be in public around supporters. He lies with even more intensity than usual, striking out verbally against his "enemies." He will continue to have melt-downs in public -- the type defense lawyers dislike. His goal is to regain the White House, institute authoritarian rule, and create an updated version of "the Troubles" in this country.

Thus, we all must think seriously about both the "why" and the "how" of how we will behave between now and election day.

16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Sharks (Original Post) H2O Man Jul 2023 OP
K&R spanone Jul 2023 #1
Thank you! H2O Man Jul 2023 #9
IMO, we should simply GOTV RainCaster Jul 2023 #2
Right. H2O Man Jul 2023 #10
The drumbeat theme from the movie "Jaws" Martin Eden Jul 2023 #3
I like that idea. Hermit-The-Prog Jul 2023 #4
Match the picture of Jack Smith with the Jaws theme. Delmette2.0 Jul 2023 #7
You have my permission Martin Eden Jul 2023 #8
I can't do it either. Delmette2.0 Jul 2023 #12
+1 H2O Man Jul 2023 #13
Perfect! H2O Man Jul 2023 #11
Been reading for years now Saoirse9 Jul 2023 #5
Interesting. H2O Man Jul 2023 #14
Santayana didn't know history could be covered-up completely. Kid Berwyn Jul 2023 #6
Thank you! H2O Man Jul 2023 #15
"A country without a memory is a country of madmen." -- George Santayana Kid Berwyn Jul 2023 #16

RainCaster

(10,916 posts)
2. IMO, we should simply GOTV
Mon Jul 31, 2023, 12:00 AM
Jul 2023

Although I will still try to educate the young & stupid who think that voting won't make a difference.

H2O Man

(73,621 posts)
10. Right.
Mon Jul 31, 2023, 12:42 PM
Jul 2023

I think that getting out the vote requires not allowing the Democratic Party to be divided, even to a small extent. Indeed, in this century, it has been when there have been divisions tat produce bitterness that we have lost contests we should have -- and could have -- won. I think the same goes for the growing number of independent voters ..... they make up a significant percentage of active voters these deays. Rather than reacting to differences of opinion harshly, we need to focus on what we have in common.

Admittedly, I know a relatively small number of young people. I have not, for example, spoke on college campuses in the past five years, due to physical issues. But those I know are active participants in the political process. The majority of them are independents. I don't see that as a problem, so long as in general elections they vote for Democrats.

Martin Eden

(12,875 posts)
3. The drumbeat theme from the movie "Jaws"
Mon Jul 31, 2023, 06:17 AM
Jul 2023

Should be blasted at the defendant at public appearances. That low base sound carries well and will get under his thin orange skin. FEAR is the mind killer. Given his increasingly desperate delusional rants, perhaps he can be pushed over the edge into a real meltdown.

Hermit-The-Prog

(33,430 posts)
4. I like that idea.
Mon Jul 31, 2023, 06:52 AM
Jul 2023

In case there are people with smartphones or other connected devices near a traitortrump appearance...

Delmette2.0

(4,170 posts)
7. Match the picture of Jack Smith with the Jaws theme.
Mon Jul 31, 2023, 10:25 AM
Jul 2023

Start posting it as a meme. It will eventually be seen by TFG. He won't be able to forget it.

Delmette2.0

(4,170 posts)
12. I can't do it either.
Mon Jul 31, 2023, 01:26 PM
Jul 2023

Some days I can hardly type. Even then I can confuse spell check.


Want ad:
Looking for a competent meme maker.
Just a little volunteer service needed.
Must be a Democrat.

Must copy to Martin Eden and myself so we are the first on DU top see it.

A grateful community and country will thank you.





H2O Man

(73,621 posts)
11. Perfect!
Mon Jul 31, 2023, 12:48 PM
Jul 2023

To use the lingo of young people on the internet, "OMG!"

Fear is an interesting thing. The great boxing trainer Cus D'Amato noted that al fighters feel fear. It's what one does with it. Cus said fear is a fire ..... one can make a controled use of it to heat their home, or if it is out of control, it burns the house down. I remember long, long ago, when I boxed, understanding ways to exploit my opponent's fears. Ah, the good old days!

Saoirse9

(3,684 posts)
5. Been reading for years now
Mon Jul 31, 2023, 06:52 AM
Jul 2023

about how the defendant is decompensating and a breakdown is coming. Breakdown never happens he just continues to lie and lie.

Has there ever been a creature that lives to commit crimes and seemingly never suffers when he gets caught?

I just don’t get how he gets caught criming so often and never suffers for it the way Nixon did. He just lies more.

Is it drugs?

What keeps that venal creature ticking when any “normal” person would have died of fright after being caught outright as he is?

H2O Man

(73,621 posts)
14. Interesting.
Mon Jul 31, 2023, 02:10 PM
Jul 2023

I don't think he has ever really been caught before. He has lost civil cases, but they just involve a sequence of digits in an account. But it is distinct from being held to account, in the sense of changing his opulent life style. Even the recent civil case for a sexual offense hasn'y had any serious consequence. Had it been a criminal trial, it would be different.

Sociopaths are prone, when under stress, to experiencing brief episodes of psychosis -- which means a mental separation from reality. In my opinion, we have witnessed several of these. They do have almost complete overlap with his lying, though. I look for how pressured the defendent's speech is while lying -- in other words, is he his "normal" relaxed lying self, or is there something forcing him to insist upon telling bold-faced lies that can only hurt him in a criminal case.

The important thing -- again, just my opinion -- will be the frequency of these episodes. He doesn't have to worry about his cult taking notice, and Democrats really can't have any lower opinion of him than they have had since, at most recent, January 6. It will be independents and the undecided that will have their opinions either changed or reinforced.

We are still a ways away from the scheduled May 2024 document case. We may see J6 related charges as early as this week. This is the pressure that builds the stress that will come out over coming months. As I noted in the OP, he will attempt to channel that into sparking outbursts of violence, similar to those in the north of my island (though I'm not on my island). Our duty is to channel rational thought, peace, and justice. Our opposition is a mad man leading an unhinged flock.

Kid Berwyn

(14,964 posts)
6. Santayana didn't know history could be covered-up completely.
Mon Jul 31, 2023, 07:21 AM
Jul 2023

Spot-on analysis, H2O Man! Saw a protest sign in a Yahoo news story that asked:

How can we prevent history repeating if we don’t know what it is?”

Nixon’s original backers, like the Defendant’s, are largely anonymous and very wealthy. Their identifying markers also include hatred of communism and an affinity for warmongering.



How Nixon Actually Got Into Power

by Mae Brussell
(from The Realist, August 1972)

EXCERPT…

He applied to serve in the FBI following graduation from law school. No answer followed. When World War 2 was declared, Nixon requested sea duty and was assigned to the South Pacific Combat Air Transport Command.(18) Nixon's 15 months in the South Pacific ended when he was transferred to Fleet Air Wing 8 at Alameda, Califomia, and from there he was assigned on special orders to the Navy Bureau of Aeronautics. The Navy assigned him to "winding up" active contracts with such aircraft firms as Bell and Glenn Martin.(19)

As a Lieutenant Commander in the Navy, Richard Nixon's next task was that of "negotiating settlements" of terminated war contracts in the Bureau of Aeronautics Office at 50 Church Street, New York City.(20)

That year was 1945, when importation proceedings began for the 642 Nazi rocket and aerospace experts and scientists from Germany to the U.S. Through the "generosity of the Guggenheim Foundation they obtained a suitable site -- a huge medieval castle, built by financier Jay Gould on a 160-acre estate at Sands Point, Long Island. Here the Germans began work on a secret project for the Navy's Office of Research and Inventions.(21)

April, May, June and July, 1945 -- worldwide attention fell upon German atrocities. From Belsen, Nordhusen, Buchenwald, and Dachau came stories of slaughter and grotesque medical research conducted in the name of science. Public opinion polls gave no evidence of generous feelings toward any group in the German population. But opinions do not automatically create Policy . (22)

By 1945 the armed services accepted the Nazis' skills and mentality as indispensable to our military power. Young advisors could not fully appreciate the concern about clandestine maneuvers after World War I, and were not alarmed by the devastation and destruction of the Third Reich. They looked upon the German scientists with excitement and anticipation.(23) The Department of Navy was the first to act upon the importation process.(27)

States to benefit economically from the influx of munition makers, rocket and space industries, warfare hardware were based in the South and Southwest. Segregated, racist states were natural habitats for imported Germans. Cold war propaganda, perpetuated by hatred of the Soviet Union and much of Asia, was financed and fostered for the most part in Florida, Louisiana, Georgia, Ohio, Texas, Alabama, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico and California.

The same mentality that allowed genocidal, inhuman slaughters on the continent of Europe built machinery to extend pain and warfare in Southeast Asia.

CONTINUES…

http://www.whale.to/b/brussell13.html



Thank you for arming our side for the Good Fight with the most powerful weapon there is: truth.

H2O Man

(73,621 posts)
15. Thank you!
Mon Jul 31, 2023, 02:30 PM
Jul 2023

Forgive me for telling you about something that happened this morning, before I got on DU. I had a message from a long retired police sergeant from my home town. I really haven't seen him since I was a teenaged semi-hoodlum ..... and even back then, I would only see him briefly, because I could run much faster than him, and I was more familiar with every alley leading to every woodland path to escapae. (grin) He wrote to thank me for my recently coming out of a self-imposed isolation, and doing presentations on area history. He said that he thinks much of the social decay in our region is associated with people not knowing -- thus appreciating -- local history.

Then my Boston daughter called. We discussed things ranging from boxing to political activism. She said that she sometimes misses even competitive sparring. I noted that even at my asvanced age, there are times when I wish I could still get in a few rounds. She said that I can still teach how to box, and I said I'd urge everyone to find another activity that doesn't pose risks to their well-being.

Then we shifted to political activism. I noted there are times when I miss being a young activist, but that I recognize the abilities and duties of an old man are distinct from when he was young. I've done three public presentations recently, and have another coming up. After the last one, a young journalist approached me. She asked if, dispite presenting on history, I was actually talking about issues of conflict in today's society? I was encouraged that she understood what I was saying.

As always, thank you, my Good Friend.

Kid Berwyn

(14,964 posts)
16. "A country without a memory is a country of madmen." -- George Santayana
Mon Jul 31, 2023, 03:15 PM
Jul 2023

How many DUers -- people I believe to be far more aware than the national average about politics, world events and history -- know that in order to stave off a French colonialist defeat at Dien Bien Phu, then-Vice President Nixon and CIA Director Dulles offered the French the Bomb?



“We might give them a few.”

Did the US offer to drop atom bombs at Dien Bien Phu?


By Fredrik Logevall | February 21, 2016

.webp

Editor's note: It was 1954, and the surrounded French garrison was facing defeat in what would become known as the First Indochina War. What happened next has been a source of controversy for decades. The author of a 2013 Pulitzer Prize-winning book on Vietnam gives his view, drawing on the array of materials that have slowly emerged.

EXCERPT...

Ike and Operation Vulture. The conversation between the two senior diplomats occurred in Paris on April 22, 1954. It was a somber affair. For more than seven years, the French Empire had fought its losing military effort to retain control of its colonies in Indochina against revolutionary forces under Ho Chi Minh; despite major American support the effort was faltering, and as the year turned the military situation was acute. With public opinion in France wavering under the strain of high casualty lists and military setbacks, Paris tried to secure direct American air intervention to relieve the Dien Bien Phu siege, under a plan codenamed Operation Vulture.

More so than many historians have suggested, President Dwight D. Eisenhower gave serious consideration to such an intervention. He viewed the outcome in Indochina as crucial to US strategic interests—it mattered more than Korea, he believed. But his mind was not yet made up as Dulles’s plane touched down in the French capital. In recent days more grim news had come from Dien Bien Phu, and French commander Henri Navarre pressed for immediate and massive US air support, despite deep private doubts that any such intervention would come in time to save the garrison.

SNIP...

According to Nixon’s memoirs, Eisenhower in this April 30 meeting asked him what he thought about telling allied governments that if the United States went into Indochina she might use the atomic bomb. Nixon replied that whatever was decided with respect to the bomb, he did not think it necessary to mention it to US allies before they agreed to United Action. Eisenhower turned to Cutler and said, “First, I certainly do not think that the atom bomb can be used by the United States unilaterally [by which he meant, presumably, outside United Action], and second, I agree with Dick that we do not have to mention it to anybody before we get some agreement on united action.”

SNIP...

What the evidence suggests. The truth about what Dulles did or did not offer his French counterpart in that gloomy Paris meeting, and about how Eisenhower really felt about using atomic bombs in the Indochina crisis, will probably never be known with precision. The president and his secretary of state said different things to different people. But the extensive discussions in the Pentagon and the NSC during the crisis about potentially using the Bomb, coupled with Eisenhower’s documented assertion on April 30 that “we might give [the French] a few,” suggests it’s entirely possible Bidault heard what he claimed to have heard.

CONTINUES...

https://thebulletin.org/2016/02/we-might-give-them-a-few-did-the-us-offer-to-drop-atom-bombs-at-dien-bien-phu/



Jim Hougan reports Nixon and his warmongering ilk seemed to have other plans after losing to JFK in 1960:



“Nixon In the Jungle”

"Did Richard Nixon---then Citizen Nixon---jump-start the Vietnam War on a secret mission to Saigon in 1964? The following piece suggests that he may have. The story originally appeared in Nixon: An Oliver Stone Film, edited by Eric Hamburg (Hyperion, New York, 1995)."


by Jim Hougan

It is one of the most mysterious incidents in the Vietnam War, and I can't get it out of my mind.

It was the spring of 1964, and the former Vice President of the United States, who was also the next President of the United States, Richard M. Nixon, was standing in a jungle clearing northwest of Saigon, negotiating with a man who, to all appearances, was a Vietcong lieutenant. Wearing battle fatigues "with no identification," Nixon was flanked by military bodyguards whose mission was so secret that, when they returned to Saigon, their clothing was burned. [1]

SNIP...

It's fair to say, then, that Richard M. Nixon knew what he was doing when it came to covert operations - but what was he doing in the jungle in 1964?

The story surfaced, briefly, some 20 years later, when the New York Times reported that Nixon, "while on a private trip to Vietnam in 1964, met secretly with the Vietcong and ransomed five American prisoners of war for bars of gold. : . ." [5] In reporting this, the Times relied upon a report published in the catalog of a Massachusetts autograph dealer. The dealer was selling a handwritten note that Nixon had given to one of his bodyguards. The note read, “To Hollis Kimmons with appreciation for his protection for my helicopter ride in Vietnam, from Richard Nixon."

The value of the note was increased by the circumstances that generated it, circumstances that Sergeant Kimmons described in the catalog:

When Nixon arrived at Ton Son Nhut Airport in Saigon, Sergeant Kimmons was assigned to security detail and was accompanying Nixon on all excursions away from the 145th Aviation Battalion where Nixon was staying. On the second day, Nixon dressed in Army fatigues with no identification and climbed aboard a helicopter with Sergeant Kimmons and a crew of four. [6]

They proceeded to Phuoc Binh, a village northwest of Saigon, where they met with Father Wa, a go-between that arranged the exchange of the gold for U. S. prisoners. The following day, Nixon and his party departed for An Loc, a village south of Phuoc Binh, where in a clearing somewhere in this area Nixon met with a Vietcong lieutenant who established a price for the return of five U.S. prisoners.
A location for the exchange was arranged and the crew departed for Saigon. Later the same day, the crew, this time without Nixon because of the extreme danger, departed for Phumi Kriek, a village across the border in Cambodia. A box loaded with gold bars so heavy it took three men to lift it on the helicopter accompanied the crew.

At the exchange point, five U.S. servicemen were rustled out of the jungle accompanied by several armed soldiers. The box of gold was unloaded and checked by the Vietcong lieutenant and the exchange was made without incident. The crew and rescued prisoners immediately departed for Saigon, and they were sent to the hospital upon their arrival.

Sergeant Kimmons's mission was secret, and there were no written orders for his duty during this period. His clothes were destroyed as well as the film in his camera, and he signed an agreement not to reveal this incident for 20 years. Nixon's note to him was hurriedly written at the conclusion of his assignment to guard Nixon on the following day. [7]

That Nixon traveled to Vietnam in 1964 is a matter of fact. He departed the United States in late March on a round-the-world trip that took him, first, to Beirut, and then to Karachi, Calcutta, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, and Saigon. There, he dined with the American Ambassador, Henry Cabot Lodge, who had been his running mate in the 1960 Presidential race. In the days that followed, Nixon helicoptered into the countryside, [8] and then continued on to Hong Kong, Manila, Taiwan, and Tokyo before returning home. [9] Nixon later wrote that the purpose of the trip was to meet with Mudge, Rose clients and foreign leaders. Contemporary reports make it obvious, however, that the real purpose of the trip was to drum up international support for what was about to become America's massive intervention in Vietnam. [10]

CONTINUES...

http://www.jimhougan.com/NixonInTheJungle.html



Thank you for sharing, H2O Man! Story telling is how knowledge, myth and wisdom get passed forward. If not us, who?
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