Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

malaise

(269,087 posts)
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 08:19 AM Nov 2012

Nate Silver: 'It's numbers with their imperfections versus bullshit. MUST READ

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/17/nate-silver-interview-election-data-statistics
<snip>
For weeks and months, the election had been "too close to call". Pundit after pundit declared that the election could "go either way". That it was "neck and neck". Only it wasn't. In the end, it turned out not to be neck and neck at all. Or precisely what Nate Silver had been saying for months. On election day, he predicted Obama had a 90.9% chance of winning a majority in the electoral votes and by crunching polling data he successfully predicted the correct result in 50 out of 50 states.

"You know who won the election tonight?" asked the MSNBC TV news anchor, Rachel Maddow. "Nate Silver."

Twitter went into meltdown. The blogosphere went Nate Silvertastic. Sales of his first book, The Signal and the Noise: The Art and Science of Prediction leapt 800% overnight and went to number two in the bestseller charts. And whole portions of the media decided that this wasn't just a personal triumph for Nate Silver – it was the triumph of the nerds. One man and his mathematical model had bested an entire political class of journalists, spin doctors, hacks and commentators.

Silver doesn't look much like America's latest and hottest new television celebrity. Or "the new boyfriend of the chattering classes", as the Washington Post called him. The 34-year-old Silver is a pretty convincing Clark Kent pre the Superman makeover. He's so unassuming, he shuffles, head bowed, into the room, looking almost embarrassed about the idea of being interviewed.

-------------------------
DUer Statistical set me straight about Nate Silver back in 2010
36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Nate Silver: 'It's numbers with their imperfections versus bullshit. MUST READ (Original Post) malaise Nov 2012 OP
k&r n/t RainDog Nov 2012 #1
Rove wanted us to think it was close! coldbeer Nov 2012 #15
My motto: Read Nate, the rest is bullshit. CanonRay Nov 2012 #2
I remember We_Must_Organize Nov 2012 #3
I've been following Nate since 2008 NYtoBush-Drop Dead Nov 2012 #4
Clark Kent pre Superman! sheshe2 Nov 2012 #5
After the first debate, the ProSense Nov 2012 #6
For me, in California, a basically Democratic state at the moment, JDPriestly Nov 2012 #10
Ding ding we have a winner malaise Nov 2012 #11
Like the Who's of Whoville, WE ARE HERE! mountain grammy Nov 2012 #7
The corporate media are in it for two things malaise Nov 2012 #12
Advertising sulphurdunn Nov 2012 #8
Nate Silver must be Anonymous whistler162 Nov 2012 #9
Excellent article on Nate MsLeopard Nov 2012 #13
Man of the Year! shrdlu Nov 2012 #30
Great article! blaze Nov 2012 #14
It had to be called close oldbanjo Nov 2012 #16
K&R gademocrat7 Nov 2012 #17
If you haven't already, read the book wtmusic Nov 2012 #18
All praise to Natestradamus! n/t backscatter712 Nov 2012 #19
Just click through and read the whole thing. longship Nov 2012 #20
Nervier really had any trust in polls Tippy Nov 2012 #21
Totally nails the bullying, science-hating Republican mindset! fiorello Nov 2012 #22
Nothing against Nate Silver, but I've never understood why he gets all the attention. Jim Lane Nov 2012 #23
Probably because 538 was absorbed by the NYT after the 2008 election BumRushDaShow Nov 2012 #24
Well, yes, they've picked Nate as poster boy for the nerds . . . MrModerate Nov 2012 #33
I e-mailed friends to disregard that "neck and neck" comment; that it wasn't going to be CLOSE. WinkyDink Nov 2012 #25
THIS !!! WillyT Nov 2012 #26
Nate has destroyed their meme for the second time in Presidential elections malaise Nov 2012 #35
Spam deleted by gkhouston (MIR Team) Dubster Nov 2012 #27
You mean right wing propaganda inflating the possibility so election theft was more believable fascisthunter Nov 2012 #28
100% correct malaise Nov 2012 #36
Nate Silver is going to need some Secret Service protection. YayArea Nov 2012 #29
Recommended. William769 Nov 2012 #31
K&R. Great profile! Overseas Nov 2012 #32
Excellent article. The Guardian is usually pretty good. Thanks for posting. Dark n Stormy Knight Nov 2012 #34

We_Must_Organize

(48 posts)
3. I remember
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 09:08 AM
Nov 2012

when i started reading Silver in May or June of '08. I thought "this guy is fucking amazing." I was always was chomping at the bit for his new senate rankings and updates on the state of the race. After he picked 49 of 50 states correctly (in 2008, only getting Indiana wrong) and every senate race I knew he was going to be a phenom. Not long after that fivethirtyeight was picked up by the Times and the rest is history. I hope Nate predicts many Democratic Administrations for years to come!

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
6. After the first debate, the
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 09:47 AM
Nov 2012

plethora of RW polls giving Mitt a significant lead in the battleground states and the media hype made it clear what was going on. They were trying to in up Republican excitement for a bullshit candidate. Up to that point, Mitt was consistently behind, and I suspect they knew he was losing.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
10. For me, in California, a basically Democratic state at the moment,
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 10:08 AM
Nov 2012

the outcome was obvious although it depended on the ground game being operated by well organized, intelligent people.

I would go to a random park in a low-income, presumably low-information area and talk to adults, young and old. Most everyone not only said they would vote for Obama but could tell you precisely why. "Obama got handed a bad deal. Things were already in bad shape when Obama took over, and Republicans are trying to shift the blame." People who said that were making a moral judgment about the honesty and irresponsibility of the entire Republican establishment -- and in my opinion, they were right.

Another one, which I heard from young people in particular, was that Obama had ended the war in Iraq and promised to end the war in Afghanistan. These young people could tell me about friends of theirs in the armed forces. Obama's re-election was life or death to them. They voted for Obama.

Those who did not support Obama were upset by the economy. Joblessness was the problem. But then if you pointed out that the Republicans had ruined the economy by failing to regulate wrongdoing, they became silent, pensive.

Then there are those (and they are growing in number) who supported neither Romney nor Obama because they want fundamental changes such as an end to wars of greed and the Federal Reserve system and hegemony of the banks. (I repeat that they are growing in number.) I suspect, however, that, once in the polling booth, many of them voted for Obama. Because hope reigns eternal . . . And we all still hope that Obama will strive toward the fundamental changes that we need. He is the only candidate, the only politician who has the name recognition, who cares and who can achieve real change.

In my experience, voters were, for the most part, much better informed or at least much more willing to state the bases for their choices than in 2004 or 2008. Maybe it was just the way I approached the voters, maybe I was different this time, but I found people to be more articulate about their reasons for supporting Obama this year than they were about him or other candidates in the past.

malaise

(269,087 posts)
11. Ding ding we have a winner
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 10:08 AM
Nov 2012

I kept asking hubby how the hell one debate of lies could change the fact that WilLIARd was the sleaziest of the scumbag ReTHUG candidates in living memory. All of M$Greedia including more than a few liberals bought form rather than LYING content in fifteen minutes.

mountain grammy

(26,630 posts)
7. Like the Who's of Whoville, WE ARE HERE!
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 09:47 AM
Nov 2012

And we vote! and Nate Silver counts us! The corporate news and pundits are just here to scare us and sell us shit! Well, we're not afraid and we're not buying! But we ARE voting! The next two years will be a turnaround in America, topped off by people power in the 2014 elections electing good Dems to a super majority. We will not go down the dark road of facism. At least I hope not! I'm getting up there and want to leave my country better than it was.

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
8. Advertising
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 09:51 AM
Nov 2012

makes it happen. I think the PR flacks and their sugar daddies were justifiable in believing that enough money spent on mass marketing will convince people to buy any old shit, and they were confident that enough money could sell Mitt Shit to suckers even though the numbers said otherwise.

 

whistler162

(11,155 posts)
9. Nate Silver must be Anonymous
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 09:52 AM
Nov 2012

after all he perdicted the Electoral College count! <doffs tin foil cap to Nate "the Anomynous" Silver>

wtmusic

(39,166 posts)
18. If you haven't already, read the book
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 11:07 AM
Nov 2012

I didn't believe someone could make a book about statistics interesting.

I was wrong.

longship

(40,416 posts)
20. Just click through and read the whole thing.
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 11:30 AM
Nov 2012

This is a very good article. Nate Silver is now internationally famous... For what? for being a nerdy smart person.

That's cool. That's awesome. I wish more nerdy guys and gals would achieve this.

Tippy

(4,610 posts)
21. Nervier really had any trust in polls
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 11:34 AM
Nov 2012

and I didn't jump on the Nate bandwagon in the beginning ....butI should have

fiorello

(182 posts)
22. Totally nails the bullying, science-hating Republican mindset!
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 02:53 PM
Nov 2012

Check out this paragraph:

----
There was more than a touch of homophobia to the criticism (Silver is gay), not to mention an aversion to scientific rationalism that has come to characterise certain segments of the conservative right. (Gawker compared the attack to "something like a jock slapping a math book out of a kid's hands and saying, 'NICE NUMBERS, FAG.'"
------

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
23. Nothing against Nate Silver, but I've never understood why he gets all the attention.
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 08:34 PM
Nov 2012

There were multiple sites that did what he did -- go beyond the latest poll of the national popular vote and instead make Electoral College predictions based on state-by-state analysis of the state polls. I myself was following electoral-vote.com, chiefly because I happened to have gotten into that habit and couldn't take the time to follow Silver and all the other sites as well. AFAIK, every single one of those poll aggregation sites predicted an Obama victory.

This wasn't Nate Silver versus the world. The real division was into these two camps:

1) People with an agenda, such as MSM calling the race close so as to hype viewer/reader interest, and Dick Morris predicting a Romney landslide so as to inspire the troops.

2) Objective, number-driven analysts who wanted to get it right.

I read an interview with Sam Wang of the Princeton Election Consortium, which also did poll aggregation and which also got it right. He expressed respect for Silver but stated a disagreement with him on some minor statistical issue that went over my head. I strongly doubt that the people focusing on Silver -- whether to praise or disparage him -- could give any coherent reason for believing that Silver's statistical approach was better or worse than Wang's.

It seems that "Nate Silver" is partly the name of a real person and partly a shorthand way of referring to all the number-crunchers.

BumRushDaShow

(129,165 posts)
24. Probably because 538 was absorbed by the NYT after the 2008 election
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 08:52 PM
Nov 2012

where Sam and PEC are still associated with the school....

So M$M focuses on M$M....

 

MrModerate

(9,753 posts)
33. Well, yes, they've picked Nate as poster boy for the nerds . . .
Mon Nov 19, 2012, 01:18 AM
Nov 2012

And not given the Princeton guys (and others, as you point out) the same celebrity treatment.

However, Nate had a heckuva platform to speak from in fivethirtyeight, is fluent in Nongeek, creates cool, accessible charts, and has a very engaging prose style. On one level, he's a columnist as much as a numbers guy.

And hence more easy to present (market?) as a star.

 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
25. I e-mailed friends to disregard that "neck and neck" comment; that it wasn't going to be CLOSE.
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 08:54 PM
Nov 2012


I also said to bet on Obama's getting 300+ EV's.

I believed in Nate Silver.
 

WillyT

(72,631 posts)
26. THIS !!!
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 08:54 PM
Nov 2012
Silver doesn't work the Georgetown party scene. He doesn't meet the lobbyists, spin doctors, campaign managers and press officers. He doesn't, in short, play the system, because political reporting, both in the US and the UK, is a system, a system that can at times resemble a cartel. In Britain, the you-scratch-my-back-and-I'll-scratch-yours atmosphere of the lobby came under scrutiny during the expenses scandal, a scandal it took a journalist outside politics to bust apart. In the US, Silver describes it as "transactional".

"Once in a while, you'll get the occasional scoop, if you're well-behaved and play the game. But it's all just a game with a lot of vested interests at work. I try not to talk to the campaigns because it's mostly noise."

What's interesting is that the campaigns, most especially Obama's, understand the importance of data. They hired a "chief scientist" and according to the campaign manager, Jim Messina, set out to "measure everything". Numbers told them who to target and how to target them.

In this context, Silver's skills seem not just relevant but vital. The liberal media don't care, perhaps, when it's their side winning; they may next time around. Because this is military-grade spin, targeted like a drone strike at the level of the individual. The political class has responded by waving the equivalent of a crucifix at it.


Same as OP.


malaise

(269,087 posts)
35. Nate has destroyed their meme for the second time in Presidential elections
Mon Nov 19, 2012, 09:15 AM
Nov 2012

Let's see how they spin their shit next time. I expect no changes. Indeed they will try to destroy him. The sad truth is that Princeton and others also got it right using real numbers and not the opinions and talking points of hacks.

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
28. You mean right wing propaganda inflating the possibility so election theft was more believable
Sun Nov 18, 2012, 09:02 PM
Nov 2012

yes, that is what was going on.

Hello US, you may be making a pay check from corporate america, but you are also giving away your democracy by giving them so much power and freedom.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Nate Silver: 'It's number...