process vs. outcome oriented

I've missed your posts.

A quote from a friend and retired guidance counselor.

Also, great to see you again...

is to gainful employment.

As a writing sample, this would not have passed muster in my journalism classes back in the 1960s. The state of US education is truly deplorable.

this was not well written. Sheese.

What does one do with a journalism degree? Will these degrees become obsolete in the near future? Will schools begin to drop journalism as a major?

Even when I graduated, right after they buried King Tut, jobs in the field were few and far between. I read an article in a business publication several months ago that listed jobs that were becoming increasingly obsolete.... 'Journalist' was one such. Just look at the number of newspapers and magazines folding every year all across the country. If law schools are any indication, then no universities won't drop Journalism as a major until they absolutely must. In 2011 Florida law schools graduated 2,500 new lawyers to fill 500 positions.

you're criticizing the kid's writing?

"Then no, universities won't drop Journalism ..." Given the way many people write on Internet forums these days, relying on the spell-checker that leaves gibberish behind when it guesses wrong on a misspelled word, a dropped comma is the least of it.

dropped comma.

literate people don't need spell-check.

thus ironic the poster attacks the kid in the OP for his "poor writing skills" when his only grammatical error is no bigger than hers.

not once, but twice.

I do appreciate the correction. Not as much, however, as I appreciate your alerting another poster to the "ignore" feature here on DU. You are a stalker, I've seen you in action with other people. So I shall follow your lead and put you on ignore. Adios.

may be over. A journalist is like any other artist, there will always be stars in the reporting world.

used to be, there are still some opportunities to use the degree.

My kids are excellent writers who scored very well on these exams. Both got into highly rated colleges.

But the writing strategies they used were very mechanical.

The people who read these tests also use a very mechanical scoring system.

It's all about "productivity," and not critical thinking. It's about how many of these tests can be scored in an hour.

The private corporations that manage these schemes ought to be expelled from our schools and colleges. The private text book industry ought to be expelled too.

Education is a socialist enterprise and it ought to be managed as such.

Starting with sentences containing a noun and a verb.

But I agree that many graders of standardized tests do not take sufficient time to fully analyze and consider the content they are grading.

i did it back in the day & i doubt it's changed. more likely gotten worse, because it's conducted on an even larger and more impersonal, corporate scale.

gorgeous language, have scintillating ideas, creative thought processes, clever use of allusion & otherwise variously demonstrate high-level writing -- but if he doesn't have 4 points in the body and summarize them in the conclusion or whatever -- then the essay is a dog, per the rating system.

dunno about AP, but i imagine it's basically the same. it's just underpaid academic workers trying to get through as many of the things as they can in the allotted time frame, and mechanical is all there's time for.

what a silly boy he must be.

he should have a college degree before he aspires to go to college and learn something

and not on developing writing skills.

Would you agree that is a sure fire way to develop writing skills? He is trying to justify a poor grade when what he needs to do is learn how to write.

I've never understood things like "I don't test well." It's a nicer way of saying, "I don't know shit," because tests are about what you've learned.

It seems like this kid didn't look into what he was getting himself into, be it AP classes or college, and is now upset that things in his adult life aren't just fun like they were for him as a child. Shit's hard and boring? What a surprise.

have learned just fine.

I'm one of the best looking straight dudes on earth. Want proof? Sorry. I just don't attract women well.

I'm also a great cook. Want some food? Whoops. I don't cook well.

People can learn a lot of things just fine, but they haven't learned what's on a test if they do a terrible job at it. Maybe they learned something else, but not what they were supposed to.

do you even know what a standardized test is?

Ask a teacher if they've ever had students who can do the work but don't do well on tests.

Test anxiety is one reason. Some kids don't perform well under pressure. Various handicaps are another. Boredom and inability to tolerate multiple stupid meaningless tests is yet another.

I thought standardized tests were a fucking joke when I was in school, and I was right. It's not like they're great or anything. I chose not to even apply to grad schools that required a GRE, because I thought the thing was a fucking joke.

when he knew, from my class participation and homework, that I knew the subject well. I had a similar problem with algebra.

I can still hear Mr. Baldino's high pitched frustration with my test results.

elementary school. It was a standardized test that saved me...ironic, no? In sixth grade I did extremely well on the test and my teacher was sooooo excited for me. It changed everything.

do not show what one has learned. There is no writing involved.

I remember what AP means, even though I never took the classes. That would have been about 16 or 17 years ago for me, if I had.

If he thinks doing an AP class or freshman college class is hard, he's in for a rude awakening when it comes to making a documentary. Do you think he's bothered to learn all of the boring details about lighting, audio, etc. he needs to know to even make it semi-watchable from a technical level? I don't.

Dropping out of college and blaming high school for your failures is not what being an adult's about.

of students and academics, asking for participation in the film he wants to make. So actually, he wrote it in a suitable style for its intended audience and format: informal, conversational, peer-to-peer.

The WAPO picked it up for whatever reason.

What are his film credentials? Oh, he's a college dropout who wants to make a movie about how other people are responsible for his failures? Awesome. Why wouldn't I have confidence in that.

While we're at it, I'd like to put a bid in to take astronauts to the space station. My credentials are that I wanted to maybe be an astronaut as a kid, but I'm shitty at science and math. My fault? Hell no. I'm going to blame high school.

whether he's the second coming of godot or just a schmuck, why do you care?

I was a student for the bulk of my life, but I've also been a teacher, primarily of folks in the age groups he's addressing here. I care a lot about what inspires young people, makes them curious to learn, and - once curious - most able to learn.

I still got into a great school. I still got a degree. This kid wants to complain about poor choices? I'm happy to tell him to fuck off. Myself, and millions of others, have been busy actually producing culture instead of bitching about how what our parents wanted us to take in high school didn't jibe with being successful artists.

I managed to go through high school, undergrad, master's, and PhD without taking AP classes and always considering standardized tests a joke.

I didn't sign up for AP classes, bitch about how they were hard, do a shitty job in college, drop out, and blame high school for it.

Know what was shitty? Probably something in kindergarten, but I'm a fucking adult now, so I'm not going to whine about it.

(Sorry, but they aren't. Having to write essays, doesn't mean he is learning how to write an essay. By the description, the person is saying all they were required to do is write essays so they could pass the AP exam. Now, when I took AP classes in my youth, we actually learned AP level work--analyzing/critical thinking development and delving deeper into the material--which was synonymous with college level expectations back in my day. I took AP English--and we prepared to take the exam by learning the course material and critical thinking skills , which in turn would give us the skills necessary in order to pass the AP exam. There was a few weeks of prep for the test, but the majority of my AP classwork was in doing some critical thinking/analytic work. We did writing--but we were also taught HOW to do a critical writing piece--critiqued by the teacher and our peers--not just told to write for writing sake.

I am an educator myself, and I see this kind of "teach to the test" mentality. AP classes were NEVER designed to prepare you for the AP test. They were designed to give us a taste of what things were going to be like in college--thus the coursework was harder than an average high school class. The guy has a point--if all they are doing in the AP class is preparing for the AP test--that is a waste of time and energy, because they were never designed for that. The problem I see in students nowadays, thanks to NCLB--is that we have abandoned critical thinking skills in favor of spitting our correct answers on a test --all multiple choice and never requiring the student to explain how they know they are right. That is why universities around the country complain bitterly that students are NOT ready for the demands of college--where it isn't just about a test. It is about thinking. The institution of Common Core standards will help in this department. We can't have it both ways in this country--we compare ourselves to Asian countries, yet we hold originality and critical thinking in high esteem in our business and advanced schooling. Our school system ---our textbooks we are required to teach "with fidelity" do not address the higher thinking, nor ability to do critical analysis both orally and in writing. That is why we will fall farther and farther behind--because we are educating a generation who cannot think critically. I'm sure they won't be very happy we did that to them, either.

(I've lurked here for over a year and finally decided to respond to a post)

though out one. Originality of ideas, in the context of the assignment, was near as important as expertly utilizing structure to convey those ideas.

And welcome to DU!

and thanks for your comments and observations.
As a twenty-plus year veteran of teaching, I concur with your assessment of the standardized testing movement, students learning styles and motivation, and where this will all leave us and our children.
"teach to the test" classrooms are boring for both students and teachers.

high school and intro college essays does nothing for writing skills beyond basic organization - which doesn't develop higher-level writing skills. it develops the ability to write boring 4 paragraph essays with a topic sentence & support in an assembly-line style.

you develop higher-level writing skills by reading a wide variety of higher-level work, and understanding it.

and fwiw, there's nothing wrong with the kid's writing sample here except for one sentence -- which could easily be the result of a typo, an editing oversight, or transition from his writing medium to "print". the message he's trying to convey comes through clearly and the writing is reasonably consise.

you had a similar error in one of your posts here. so heal thyself, physician. you got no room to criticize the kid.

Being creative can actually go against your score. I ended up getting high scores on mine but developed better writing skills in college.

for standardized tests at the university level, it really opened my eyes.

I agree that GE writing classes might not be that awesome either, but the college level English teachers I know all seemed to be trying their hardest to get students to improve.

funny that remark v. the comparison with the dreary 4-5 paragraph essay, topic + support + conclusion, that's drilled in HS & adored by standardized testers.

when i was teaching the thing (to foreign students), i noticed that i had a hard time finding good examples from real-life writing. it's a good thing to teach just because a lot of young writers seem to have a hard time organizing unless they're heavy readers, but it seemed to me it's most useful for the business world.

You, obviously, missed a number of grammatical errors in the letter.

The message that comes through clearly is that young Mr. Singh needs much more practice in communicating his thoughts. He would be better served if someone would edit his writing sample and tell him he needs to read more and whine less.

because, unlike you, he thought he did 'poor'. He did poorly because, like you, he didn't seem to notice any of the other numerous errors in his piece...only one of which could be attributed to thinking faster than he can type.

earlier).

maybe your eye is more keen. perhaps if you listed the numerous errors?

When being creative be true to your vision and hope it will be published someday. Also, when using acronyms it is standard in English grammar to spell out the abbreviation on first usage. The poster should have written advanced placement (AP) classes on the first use of the term and then thereafter freely used the AP short hand. I was able to ascertain his/her meaning but it's not good writing to make your readers guess.

And I read great literature, learned a great deal, but yes, we did do timed 50 minutes essays in class. Having to write a timed essay is great practice to organizing your thought and synthesizing your knowledge about what you've read. We still had great discussions in class about the books we were reading.

The AP literature and composition test is half written exam. They are trying to determine if you have college level writing skills. Good luck trying to write 3 essays in 2 hours if you haven't practiced doing it before.

essay (falling in the journalistic category of op-ed piece, I suppose).

Opening sentence:

Hello, my name is Ankur Singh and I’m 18 years old and just began my freshman year at the University of Missouri-Columbia majoring in journalism

Notice anything? How about the use of 'and' twice in one sentence? While the rules of style have changed over the years, that one is still in place.

How about Alexander Pope poems? Just exactly what are they, some new form of poetry? Alexander Pope's poems, or better still "the poetry of Alexander Pope"

Young Mr. Singh doesn't appear to care for adverbs. He didn't do 'poor' in his AP English Class, he did 'poorly' Those are just a few of the numerous "fails' contained in this essay.

For a college freshman, seeking a degree in journalism, his writing style is extremely immature and he will continue to struggle in those courses that tend to rely on essay exams or research papers for final grades.

I think the young man was not well served by his favorite teacher, who obviously graded on analysis while ignoring form. The ability to think critically is, indeed, priceless not only in academia but in all of life. The ability to express that thinking clearly is just as important. The purpose of his AP English course was to hone that ability to express himself clearly and intelligently....

was copied from his personal blog by the Education editor for the WaPo. None of us know whether Singh was given the opportunity to spruce up his piece prior to its publication in the WaPo. Perhaps the fault lies with the WaPo editor for failing to perform even rudimentary editing, speaking of failing to pass journalistic muster.

As I noted downthread, the original piece appears to have been published in a blog:

http://listenthefilm.wordpress.com/2012/11/06/who-am-i-and-why-should-you-care-about-this-silly-documentary/

The use of 'and' twice in a single sentence violates no known rule of grammar, provided that the 'and' links two independent clauses, as it does here in both instances. Granted, the syntax is a little stilted perhaps. (Might have read a bit more elegantly to say, "Hello, my name is Ankur Singh and I'm 18 years old and just beginning my freshman year . . .&quot But there's no rule of grammar or style violated that I'm aware of.

The essay is a highly artificial, ad hoc form. Since the days of Montaigne, few real writers have said to themselves, "Gee, I think I shall sit down and compose an essay." Instead, real writers say to themselves, "I'm going to write about the problem with AP classes." Thus, demanding that writers conform to some abstract 'essay' aesthetic in order to pass journalistic muster strikes me as the height of pedantry and the antithesis of what real writing is all about.

The simple fact that, by his own admission, he did poorly (poor, to quote him) in AP English as taught in his high school, is indication that he is going to have trouble in college in those courses which require writing essays and research papers. He's a journalism major, not an engineering major for Pete's sake.

Look, I totally agree that 'teaching to the test', grades 1 - 11 is a major mistake. However, by 12th grade students who want to go on to college benefit from classes that teach them how to take the SAT/ACT tests. They will be competing with students whose parents can spend thousand of dollars for private tutoring. Furthermore, why is everyone assuming that because students were asked to write essays that answered a particular question about a particular reading assignment, there was no critical thinking involved? That's sheer nonsense. He did poorly, because he writes poorly. The idea really came about last year with a conversation I had with my French teacher, but the root of it starts a little bit earlier. Are you really going to tell me this is a well constructed sentence? Or this:
It was the only class I’ve ever taken where the lessons I learned will carry with me for the rest of my life and after completion I felt ten times smarter.

I've raised 3 children, put all 3 through college and I've heard every excuse imaginable. This smells of being another.

with?

There's only one error there, and that's the one i pointed out for you.

There's also a vocabulary error nearby, but you didn't catch that, i guess.

The way you and a couple of other posters were going on about how ungrammatical etc the writing was, i thought i must have missed something.

But no, just petty stylistic nitpicking from your own personal POV. The kind of petty critique that's guaranteed to make students uninterested in writing well because it's so arbitrary and specific to a specific teacher/writer/reader.

using two identical conjunctions in a row ain't an error; there's no such 'rule' as you claim. "Alexander Pope poems" ditto. There's nothing better about the two alternatives you list. I doubt you'd be able to give a rational stylistic reason for using your alternatives, either. Just your arbitrary preference.

or else it's just an unsupported conclusion.

Opening sentence:

Hello, my name is Ankur Singh and I’m 18 years old and just began my freshman year at the University of Missouri-Columbia majoring in journalism

Notice anything? How about the use of 'and' twice in one sentence? While the rules of style have changed over the years, that one is still in place.

How about Alexander Pope poems? Just exactly what are they, some new form of poetry? Alexander Pope's poems, or better still "the poetry of Alexander Pope"

Young Mr. Singh doesn't appear to care for adverbs. He didn't do 'poor' in his AP English Class, he did 'poorly' Those are just a few of the numerous "fails' contained in this essay.

For a college freshman, seeking a degree in journalism, his writing style is extremely immature and he will continue to struggle in those courses that tend to rely on essay exams or research papers for final grades.

I think the young man was not well served by his favorite teacher, who obviously graded on analysis while ignoring form. The ability to think critically is, indeed, priceless not only in academia but in all of life. The ability to express that thinking clearly is just as important. The purpose of his AP English course was to hone that ability to express himself clearly and intelligently....

the point a lot of us are making, the point the student is making, the point many teachers are making, the point the people in this thread are making is that kids are being educated to pass tests with capricious and arbitrary goals.

so single-minded is the focus on the tests that it is taking away and depriving children of AN EDUCATION --you know, where kids learn to write, learn to understand, learn analytical and higher levels of thinking. those things are being sacrificed, all of them.

but in your small world, you are marking with the red pen and missing the point everyone else is seeing.

and you're a reporter?

I simply pointed out that young Mr. Singh was not well served by his favorite teacher. I understand the arguments being made in his defense and had his writing style been less immature and more grammatically correct, I might have agreed with all of you who are up in arms about "teaching to the test". However, based on what I have been able to ascertain, AP English for high school seniors has 2 purposes: preparation for the SAT/ACT tests and preparation for the writing that will required at the college level.

I surrender...Mr. Singh's letter is absolutely brilliant. He needs no further instruction on how to express himself more clearly and will earn an A+ on every exam using the essay format and all of his research papers because college professors are never influenced by style over substance.

Happy now?

i kind of think you took the easy way out.

instead of commenting on the larger point, which we are all doing and which is the point --what often gets sacrificed when one teaches to tests, you chose to dismiss the whole thing because an 18-year old freshman's writing "sample" wouldn't get through your filter.

i just thought it was kind of cheap, and really easy, but not very insightful.

would have been to ignore the entire thread. Making the less popular argument is never easy.

The knee-jerk reaction to "teaching to the test" that most, not all, are putting forth as new or well thought out opinion is neither informative nor productive and certainly not insightful. Teaching to the test is an absurdity grades 1 - 11. But Mr. Singh's complaint was with 12th grade AP English and he didn't like the fact that his sloppy grammar and immature style didn't earn him the high grade he expected. Sorry, that is his own failure. Aided and abetted by a previous teacher who had no focus on grammar.

I didn't chose to ignore anything, I chose, instead, to give a reasonable explanation as to why the young man received a disappointing grade in his AP English class.

math and science academy. At the beginning of their senior years, they were both chomping at the bit to enroll in as many AP classes as possible. This school actually limited the number of AP classes their students were allowed to take. One of the teachers told me that they were trying to avoid becoming an AP mill.

I commend them for that.

Cause you're missing the point entirely.

The study of English language and literature is (believe it or not!) a real and actual discipline. The level of inquiry the young man was speaking of--"analyzing themes or characters"--is entirely appropriate for the grade level he was enrolled in--it just isn't "Advanced Placement".

Complaining that the teacher was preparing the class for the "Advanced Placement Exam" tends to underscore both the inexperience and a certain lack of knowledge of the very purpose (and requirements for succesful completion of!) the "Advanced Placement" class. There was nothing stopping the young man from taking a class more commensurate with his abilities--but he seems to have wanted "Advanced Placement" credit with standard grade-level effort.

I didn't take any AP classes when I was in high school. I didn't see the point. My senior year of high school was fun and easy, just how I wanted it. College was hard, but I still did well at it, eventually. When I got poor grades I certainly didn't just whine about how the classes weren't challenging me in the right ways.

done in college-level english classes, & i've taken a boatload of them.

AP classes aren't/weren't originally designed as test prep classes, and an AP English class that consists entirely of writing essays that will past muster on the narrow value scale of a standardized AP exam is a bad joke.

credit. If you read the kid's essay in the WaPo it is clear that he isn't an exceptional writer. He would've been better served in the grade-appropriate class.

in the nation by various standardized tests. i know very well what goes on in college english courses.

he may not be an exceptional writer, but neither are most people who take college english classes. he's perfectly capable of writing at the college level.

anyway, won't be responding to your posts anymore, too tiresome.

I've never insulted you. Nor have I invited your responses.

Why respond to me, then peter out with a lame insult? You realize it says way more about you than me? That's not even mentioning the ever-so-cute "I'm in the top 1%!" (in broken grammar, no less.)

one who claims college english course don't talk about character, etc.

bye rommie!

in.

perhaps writing a succession of the kind of stupid topic-sentence-body with support-summary-paragraph essays that work for standardized test bored the living crap out of him.

class only.

there's a difference.

My junior year of high school I was enrolled in an English class taught by the best teacher I ever had....He really pushed us when analyzing poems and books and allowed us to form our own ideas and argue them well...

I enrolled in AP English due to my great experience with English the previous year hoping it would be more rigorous and I would grow even more as a writer and as a person. I was wrong. The entire purpose of AP English was not to improve our critical thinking or our writing, but to prepare for the AP Exam in May and to get ready for college. We read great pieces of literature... But, instead of analyzing themes or characters our teacher would give us questions which we would have to write essays about in a 50 minute class period similar to what we would find on the AP Exam and in college classes...


In other words, they were assigned a reading and then asked to write an essay, then graded on it as though it were an AP exam. No discussion or analysis.

That's not what college-level English is like.

The author (or someone who WaPo is allowing to represent himself as the author) has responded angrily to some of the comments on the WaPo piece suggesting that the piece has some flaws:

singh_ank11/9/2012 9:13 AM EST
Seriously, who does this kid think he is?! How dare he even write something that doesn't have perfect grammar? I'm frankly appalled and disgusted by his laziness and utter lack of care. He should never write anything or show is face in public every again. Ugh.

for the use of "poor" rather than "poorly". not a big deal.

the people ranting about his poor english skills in the WAPO are either stupid or paid trolls, imo.

your other criticisms don't even make sense.

not about your desire to refute whatever I've posted (irrespective of its content.)

You are obsessive in your need to be nasty to me, and it's just silly. You aren't even responding to anything I've posted in any meaningful way.

I am paying for her to take classes from a local university and an online community college. She will have 3+ semesters completed in engineering when she graduates from High School. After she takes the courses that are equivalent to the AP classes at the High School, the 2nd sem Freshman and Sophomore classes will be paid for by the school. The AP is a rip off - you study for a year of intense college material and have to get a 4 or a 5 on the test to get college credit. We decided to bypass that rat race. At the end of this semester my daughter will have 21 1/2 hrs. of college credit between this past summer and the fall (4 1/2 paid for by the school). She will add another 12 1/2 hrs this spring (all paid for).

One thing I disagree with him on is that you do have to grow up. Children used to have to grow up at 16. Now we are extending that age to 22 or even later. I am amazed that 18 and 19 year olds go off to college spending big bucks without some sort of plan for their lives. As I was telling my daughter, if you are not certain then get a job and take one or two community college classes until you have better definition. I know many areas are depressed for entry level work, but their are opportunities in this country. If 3 or 4 young adults get together in a small apartment, they can swing working at entry level jobs.

I do like to the idea of doing a documentary. My daughter does documentary film making as well. She hopes to combine it with the engineering degree.

Education has multiple purposes. Of course it is to make you a well rounded individual (that is why a broad liberal arts education should be emphasized). In addition it should serve to train you to make a useful contribution to society.

Some of those local university courses will not count at the higher end colleges. Our children received credit for all their AP course but the two in top universities did not receive credit for any of their local college classes. Those courses were from Syracuse University.

My youngest who is going to a State University did receive credit for all her courses.

Sounds like your daughter has a wonderful future ahead of her.

Every course transfers. I have met and discussed with Iowa prior to signing her up. Thanks for the heads up though.

It is an irony that Iowa does not do a very good job accepting AP credit (for example you need a 5 on the Chemistry AP for a semester credit in engineering). You cannot get out of the freshman requirement in Rhetoric no matter if you pass both AP English tests (you can get Literature credit towards satisfying a Humanities requirement). AP Calculus AB requires a 4 for credit for one semester of Calculus (you still get one semester credit with a 3 on Calculus BC). Several other AP classes are not used at all (such as Biology).

You are right that the AP courses are expected for entry into the more prestigious private colleges and they do not recognize community college, regional universities, and even flagship state universities in some cases. As far as I am concerned the privates are a rigged game, and I am not going to have my daughters waste their effort on them at the undergraduate level (graduate school is another thing). The perspective may be different on the coasts though. Our only top tier privates are about five hours from here (University of Chicago), and it does not offer engineering. I am not sure my daughter could get a high enough score on the ACT/SAT for serious consideration either. Her classroom performance has always outstripped the standardized testing.

I can't imagine any college not accepting credit from Syracuse which is an excellent university. Hope your kids are enjoying college.

Take dual credit classes -- make sure they transfer to state universities.

Forget about AP -- as many as 40-60% of the students that take AP tests won't get credit.

Take REAL courses at REAL colleges while in high school (as long as they transfer).

The professors at REAL Colleges probably have better credentials anyway that a teacher teaching AP high school classes.

We honestly did not know anything four years ago. We live in a very rural area and maybe one or two young adults make it to the top schools in about a 70 mile radius around us each year. It is the standardized testing which even allowed our children the chance of making it to where they did. Well that and their hard work.

Both my daughters seem to enjoy their respective schools and my son has graduated. One of our daughters will be doing her spring semester in Bologna Italy. Though I am not sure how we will afford it yet.

I certainly have found the whole thing quite intriguing. What counts and what doesn't and how much work the younger generation has to put into school now. It is quite a serious effort to make sure everything is on the right path when they enter high school. I wish we had put as much effort into understanding it all as you have.

I was never impressed by the AP classes my oldest son took, as they were not that great and mostly aimed at taking the test. The worst was a French AP class where the teacher was not even able to speak French well, but she knew what was expected of an AP exam. We then limited the AP classes as we thought the Honors classes were better,

However, my heart breaks when these standardized tests are given to kids that are less academically savvy than my oldest son or the kid who wrote this article. They have to take a test which often only reflects how well they are prepared for the test, and not how well they can read in real world situations. Same goes for math. We are probably the only country in the world to test kids this way, and for which results?

Complaining about standardized testing may be a bit off base here, unless the kid didn't want his college creds.

Reality has to be a factor at some point. AP class has a specific purpose of providing a High School student with the opportunity to earn college credit.

As a part of this, they include an exit exam to ensure the child has earned those credits. It has always been thus.

at elite colleges; you could do college work in HS and avoid 100-level course in college.

Yes, you took a test to show you understood the work -- BUT THE CLASSES WEREN'T TEST PREP, THEY WERE CLASSES WHERE YOU ACTUALLY DID THE SAME WORK AS YOU WOULD HAVE IN COLLEGE.

program.

by AP classes. That's not a surprise.

There were no AP classes when I was in high school (I don't know if that is a function of the time or the place), so I don't know what the questions are like. But the piece in the OP says, "instead of analyzing themes or characters our teacher would give us questions which we would have to write essays about in a 50 minute class period similar to what we would find on the AP Exam and in college classes."

The essays I wrote in college literature classes were about analyzing themes and characters. If the AP exam is similar than I am pleasantly surprised. When I opened the OP, I expected it to be about the multiple choice questions.

I took English AP. I have no idea what this guy is talking about except it sounds like he wasn't up to the level required to do well in the course.

since you took ap english, not sure why you didn't get that. it's perfectly clear in the article.

and the article is a perfectly clear piece of writing, with only one questionable sentence.

Having taken the class, taken the practice tests in class, and did quite well on the actual exam.

The whole point of AP English Literature is analyzing themes and characters.

There's an AP English Composition class/exam, but that one wasn't offered at my HS, so I can't attest to what that covers specifically, but I know it's more rhetorical writing focused. Perhaps he took that one.

Also, given that article, his writing isn't up to the level needed in an AP English class. I know some high schools let anybody who wants to take AP classes take them, regardless of they actually belong in the class.

class -- if it was run that way.

BUT THAT'S APPARENTLY HIS BITCH. He says all they did was read something and write essays on assigned questions about the reading and (I infer, a reading skill) get graded on them as though they were AP exam essays, supposedly to prepare them for taking the AP exam.

And that's a TEST-PREP CLASS. Like any other test-prep class where all you do is practice doing problems like the ones that will be on the test, check your answers, and figure out what you did wrong (at least in the eyes of the test designers).

And getting a TEST-PREP CLASS instead of an actual AP english class doing college-style work is what he's complaining about.

it's also a really sucky way to learn to 'write'. actually, it's not a way to learn to write at ll, or even write better.

so i'm inclined to take him at his word.

Last edited Mon Nov 19, 2012, 06:05 AM - Edit history (1)

Nixon is to Republicans as ___________ is to _____________
a. Albatross/neck
b. Boil/neck
c. Noose/neck
d. Turd/swimming pool

Upon being harnessed to the cart, the _________ was ___________ to trot
a. Thoroughbred/eager
b. Nun/hot
c. Collaborator/persuaded
d. Messiah/too spaced out

Rote memorization ("cram school&quot is the basis of their learning, as opposed to critical thinking.

Asking your teacher/professor questions is considered rude and pushy.

I have no idea how kids in Japan learn anything. And the problem has made it to our shores now.

I'm over in Lawrence. Let me know if I can help. www.lightlyre.com