General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJoe Biden will get no credit for the Gaza ceasefire. None.
And it's a damn shame, and he doesn't care. He took this job to make things better, and once again he's pulled a damn rabbit out of a hat.
He got a ceasefire. He's getting hostages out, along with a ladder to extend the ceasefire for the release of more hostages.
I say this as a committed Obama fan: Joe Biden is the greatest President of my lifetime.
Walleye
(31,141 posts)DFW
(54,487 posts)He doesn't kiss the media's ass (to his personal credit, but political detriment), and they, in turn, ignore his accomplishments, and transform everything positive into something insignificant. As a man who feels no need to toot his own horn, Biden, again, to his political detriment, doesn't seek acclaim and recognition of his accomplishments--something he might want to reconsider as a sitting president seeking re-election.
agingdem
(7,871 posts)Credit or no credit no one will remember .. and Joe doesnt care..
Silent3
(15,425 posts)We're at risk of losing our democracy if more people don't wake up and realize all Biden has done, and how VASTLY superior he his to the alternative.
SlimJimmy
(3,184 posts)And damn sure not for the release of only 50 hostages. Maybe 150 hostages for a four day pause would have been acceptable. This is not.
Celerity
(43,706 posts)pazzyanne
(6,560 posts)You have to start somewhere. Expecting to start at the top results in failure to achieve a goal IMHO!
LymphocyteLover
(5,662 posts)radicalleft
(482 posts)Any living Palestinian is a terrorist dontcha know
maxsolomon
(33,449 posts)Can you cite a post asserting that blanket condemnation?
SlimJimmy
(3,184 posts)Israel must be the only modern military to actually go to great lengths to avoid civilian casualties, yet when they are attacked are not permitted to respond. Do you want to see Hamas reconstituted in Gaza? Is that your goal?
Big Blue Marble
(5,155 posts)when every Gazan is considered a combatant.
Influential Israeli national security leader makes the case for genocide in Gaza
Lets Not be Intimidated by the World
Giora Eiland, Yedioth Ahronoth, November 19, 2023
"The way to win the war faster and at a lower cost for us requires a system collapse on the other side and not the mere killing of more Hamas fighters. The international community warns us of a humanitarian disaster in Gaza and of severe epidemics. We must not shy away from this, as difficult as that may be. After all, severe epidemics in the south of the Gaza Strip will bring victory closer and reduce casualties among IDF soldiers. And no, this is not about cruelty for crueltys sake since we dont support the suffering of the other side as an end but as a means."
https://mondoweiss.net/2023/11/influential-israeli-national-security-leader-makes-the-case-for-genocide-in-gaza/
enid602
(8,668 posts)Is this satire?
The way to win the war faster and at a lower cost for us requires a system collapse on the other side . . .
So efficient and cost conscious.
LymphocyteLover
(5,662 posts)that makes Israel look bad and like they are killing indiscriminately or out of retribution. It's time for a pause.
Lanius
(603 posts)It was pretty easy to see in the beginning.
SlimJimmy
(3,184 posts)sea? Sometimes, the most distasteful part of war is necessary to end it in a timely manner.
LymphocyteLover
(5,662 posts)I'm not sure how many civilians, especially children, he killed when he swept through the south.
TheFarseer
(9,328 posts)When we are talking about individuals in a war, they intentionally did NOT target civilians, only supplies and infrastructure. The idea was to destroy their ability to make war, not give them the resolve to fight on forever.
LymphocyteLover
(5,662 posts)TheFarseer
(9,328 posts)during Shermans March to the Sea.
SlimJimmy
(3,184 posts)How many deaths resulted? Who knows, but it damn sure wasn't zero.
Lanius
(603 posts)Im not saying the IDF is purposefully killing Palestinian civilians, but I am saying their priority is to kill Hamas first and any citizens in the way are acceptable collateral damage.
SlimJimmy
(3,184 posts)This is the same group that said over 500 people died in a hospital rocket attack, that actually hit the parking lot, and killed a few dozen at most. And was launched by the Islamic Jihad terrorist cell.
LymphocyteLover
(5,662 posts)SlimJimmy
(3,184 posts)Many thousands at minimum.
LymphocyteLover
(5,662 posts)that didn't have Hamas fighters there.
Like why was this guy killed?
https://www.npr.org/2023/11/21/1214529402/remembering-gazan-dr-hammam-alloh-killed-by-an-israeli-airstrike
SlimJimmy
(3,184 posts)And Israel must account for any action that is counter to the laws of war. The problem is that the UN and the MSN, in general, only want to hold Israel accountable. And, at best, the protests in support of Hamas are misguided, based on blatantly false information as put out by the Hamas run Ministry of health.
womanofthehills
(8,806 posts)SlimJimmy
(3,184 posts)You'll notice it doesn't say Palestine or Palestinia ... and never did.
EndlessWire
(6,574 posts)Basic LA
(2,047 posts)How many thousands of slaughtered innocents are enough for the occupiers' revenge?
SlimJimmy
(3,184 posts)then Israel wouldn't be forced to bomb "hospitals." which had then become military targets. And as a note, Israel hasn't been in Gaza since 2005. This destruction and death is all on Hamas.
Lanius
(603 posts)I dont think any civilian target is justified because there might be fighters there. If you have to take it out, then go boots on the ground instead of flinging bombs on refugee camps.
SlimJimmy
(3,184 posts)David__77
(23,603 posts)MyNameIsJonas
(744 posts)SlimJimmy
(3,184 posts)If I were involved, I wouldn't make such a horrible deal. Think about it. A four day pause for Hamas, 150 of their imprisoned people back, in exchange for 50 hostages out of 240.
MyNameIsJonas
(744 posts)If you can't answer it, that's fine. But you seem to not understand what exactly happened with this negotiation between Israel and Hamas but maybe that explains why you think if you were in charge, you'd get a better deal? Idk
DemocraticPatriot
(4,500 posts)because some were seized by other factions......
(not defending Hamas but that is the reality)
calimary
(81,566 posts)about our current President. Joe Biden is an absolute marvel. Seems like whatever he gets to work on - improves. Whatever problem he tackles - he solves. Whatever challenge he confronts - he conquers.
Every time I think he couldnt get over whatever hurdle hes faced with, he manages to leap over it without breaking a sweat. He is without peer.
Im 70 years old and I can remember Presidents back to JFK. And theres just no match for that guy from Delaware. Joe Biden is the greatest President of my lifetime, too.
samnsara
(17,658 posts)..of course not really..but i too was that committed to him. I have ALWAYS been a Biden fan from years ago but now I am a 100% committed fan of his.
TSExile
(2,525 posts)President Biden could cure cancer, solve world hunger, etc., and still never get credit.
Native
(5,943 posts)It doesn't matter what he does, they always find something negative to highlight.
sjr2323
(28 posts)As long as Palestinian lands are occupied and more settlements are being built, Hamas and Hamas by any other name will be "rebooting." Save the lives of the hostages anyway possible. Save the lives of the innocent Palestinian people anyway possible.
Bombing hospitals where some hostages may be held is not the answer either.
My heart aches for ALL the people caught up in this nightmare of history, even the ones here in the USA.
President Biden was handed the worst political hand in recent history on Jan 6 2021. We are not helping anyone if we don't support him during this horrid time.
Native
(5,943 posts)SlimJimmy
(3,184 posts)Did the Japanese reboot after the bombs dropped and they surrendered?
getagrip_already
(14,946 posts)But they seem to be about to present the login prompt.
SlimJimmy
(3,184 posts)I guess you didn't get the memo.
getagrip_already
(14,946 posts)Butterflylady
(3,555 posts)Because Israel has boots on the ground in Gaza and Israel is prepared.
Calista241
(5,586 posts)Yeah, Hamas can move some people around (as long as they're not in the tunnels), maybe some guns, but they can't build rockets or import anything substantial enough to change the balance of power.
I also have no doubt that Israel is going to continue their operation and clearing tunnels starting after the 4 days.
The most important part of a tunnel system like the one Hamas has built is air and air circulation. To accomplish this air circulation, Hamas needs power to run engines that provide this ventilation. Those engines generate exhaust that must also be ventilated. Exhaust tunnels are easily detected and blocked / destroyed. Solar panels (really the best option) that provide this power are even more easily detected and destroyed. Everyone in those tunnels will need to get out if they want to survive. Can they survive a week, two weeks? Nobody knows, but if Israel stays where they are for a month or two, everyone in those tunnels will need to escape.
In addition, Israel also has access to the tunnel system, and they can pump whatever they want into it, which will further compress the timeline for Hamas to do something. And given the Israel interdiction of cell phone signals and other communication, those Hamas terrorists will have to make whatever decision they make without influence from Hamas higher-ups.
EndlessWire
(6,574 posts)The length of time is inconsequential. I share concerns about the number of hostages they are keeping.
Because they can't resupply, I'd be looking at activity outside of Israel that they might instigate in an effort to conflagrate the issues. Sharp eyes are necessary.
Bettie
(16,144 posts)heck, they'll probably come up with a way to give the orange man credit for it...because that's what they do.
Voltaire2
(13,246 posts)for releasing terrorists. That take, that the prisoner exchange is bad, is already in circulation.
2naSalit
(86,900 posts)Almost always happens to Scorpios, they could save an entire country from ruin and still be spit on by those whom they saved. A Scorpio who succeeds has to know that recognition for major achievements that help everyone is never going to be their lot in life. And there will always be someone to take the credit instead.
RandomNumbers
(17,621 posts)And he probably does, but thinks that he personally shouldn't show it (i.e. opposite of Trump).
His campaign staff and DNC sure as hell had better care and be working on the communication strategy so that your headline will prove false in the long run.
If the outcome next year is Trump back in office - or DeSatan, or one of the other fascist wannabes - any good Biden has done will quickly be erased.
PatSeg
(47,728 posts)He has made so many consequential accomplishments in a relatively short period of time, but gets so little credit for them. Hopefully, history will treat him better.
sarisataka
(18,883 posts)As genocide Joe? If so I would count that as a win.
wiggs
(7,820 posts)that has been the primary goal since October 7, with non-stop communication with several countries (including Israel) to make sure this doesn't cost many many more lives than already lost.
There are multiple goals that have to be pursued all at once and certainly hostages are near the top, but the world should be grateful that there's a powerful country with leverage and leadership willing to broker a soft landing (hopefully....And which doesn't have a potus who uses that leverage and leadership only to glorify/enrich himself and make deals for future seaside resorts in Israel occupied Gaza)
Deep State Witch
(10,472 posts)The right will vilify him because he "gave into terrorists," "didn't send in the US Special Forces to rescue the Americans," and/or "sold out Israel."
The left will vilify him because he "didn't go far enough," "didn't call for a ceasefire earlier," or "sold out the Palestinians."
Diplomacy is the art of compromise. Neither side gets 100% what they want, but if both walk away with a mutual agreement, it's enough to build on.
miffelplix
(54 posts)It's a 'humanitarian pause.' Israeli assault will continue after four days.
David__77
(23,603 posts)I understand that the chattering political class may have different ideas about it. In the real world, an agreed upon cessation of military activities is a ceasefire.
I hope that that is ceasefire can be maintained.
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,821 posts)Link to tweet
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/11/21/statement-from-president-joe-biden-on-the-hostage-release-in-gaza/
HOME
BRIEFING ROOM
STATEMENTS AND RELEASES
I welcome the deal to secure the release of hostages taken by the terrorist group Hamas during its brutal assault against Israel on October 7th.
Jill and I have been keeping all those held hostage and their loved ones close to our hearts these many weeks, and I am extraordinarily gratified that some of these brave souls, who have endured weeks of captivity and an unspeakable ordeal, will be reunited with their families once this deal is fully implemented.
I thank Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al-Thani of Qatar and President Abdel-Fattah El-Sisi of Egypt for their critical leadership and partnership in reaching this deal. And I appreciate the commitment that Prime Minister Netanyahu and his government have made in supporting an extended pause to ensure this deal can be fully carried out and to ensure the provision of additional humanitarian assistance to alleviate the suffering of innocent Palestinian families in Gaza. I look forward to speaking with each of these leaders and staying in close contact as we work to ensure this deal is carried through in its entirety. It is important that all aspects of this deal be fully implemented.
As President, I have no higher priority than ensuring the safety of Americans held hostage around the world. Thats whyfrom the earliest moments of Hamass brutal assaultmy national security team and I have worked closely with regional partners to do everything possible to secure the release of our fellow citizens. We saw the first results of that effort in late October, when two Americans were reunited with their loved ones. Todays deal should bring home additional American hostages, and I will not stop until they are all released.
Todays deal is a testament to the tireless diplomacy and determination of many dedicated individuals across the United States Government to bring Americans home.
###
Lanius
(603 posts)wyldwolf
(43,870 posts)Enemies - and allies - do so at their own peril.
NNadir
(33,582 posts)President Biden fulfills the American tradition of following a disastrous Presidency with a great one.
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,821 posts)hay rick
(7,656 posts)He will be blamed for the expense of humanitarian aid. He will blamed for the hostages that remain. Joe Biden is a much better person than most of the people he serves.
wryter2000
(46,130 posts)Biden responsible for release of hostages. How this will hurt him with voters of color, polls show.
TheFarseer
(9,328 posts)The cease fire costs twice as much.
gulliver
(13,200 posts)Amazing guy. We're incredibly lucky to have him.
340ing
(17 posts)Sadly.
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,821 posts)Link to tweet
https://www.axios.com/2023/11/23/biden-israel-hamas-hostage-deal
Why it matters: Interviews with the officials reveal how Biden's team shaped the agreement during six weeks of often-tense negotiations, how he was driven by "gut-wrenching" meetings with hostages' family members, and his aggressive push to seal the deal......
Biden insisted he speak directly with Qatar's prime minister, Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdul Rahman al-Thani.
By phone, Sheikh Mohammed briefed Biden on Qatar's hostage talks with Hamas..
The White House decided not to make that call public to avoid affecting the talks at a time when an agreement seemed close
......When the Hamas leader re-engaged with negotiators last Friday, Biden called the Qatari emir again. A U.S. official said Biden told him this was the last chance to get a deal that would temporarily stop the fighting.
A day later when they met in Doha, the Qatari prime minister told McGurk that Hamas had just come back with an answer. Burns and Barnea were updated, but after a few hours of talks there were still several unresolved issues.
Over the next few days, the talks continued. On Tuesday morning, Hamas informed Qatar that it approved of the latest text.
Israel's Cabinet convened several hours later. Netanyahu told the ministers about his request for Biden's help in sweetening the deal.
That led to an agreement on a four-day pause in fighting less time than Hamas initially wanted and an understanding that another round of hostage releases would be possible.
The deal "was improved," Netanyahu said: "President Biden helped and I thank him for that."
Shortly afterward, Israel's Cabinet approved the deal.