I haven't watched this yet, but I expect it to be great.

and build a campaign around and off that issue. So people are not shocked by the issue. So it is not a painful wound for democratic voters on election day. Knowing Jon Stwart like we do, he probably has a long term plan like that.

The only people being lazy, are the ones whining about Stewart.

No idea why some people's hair is on fire

...tired of comedians who think this is a joke.

Tired of these nolabels-type fucks who think they're better than the party.

You may be tired of the age crap but neither you nor anyone else can stomp your feet and make it go away.

He made age jokes but then went on to explain how much worse trump would be and called out project 2025 and warned that it would be project 2029 after that

...I read somewhere that a sizable number of young folks were getting their news from the Daily Show.

I hope that's not still true. It'll be just a matter of time before he's jonesing for another slam on Pres. Biden or Democrats to get attention.

It's all hands on deck, and he's busy clowning in the steering room.

...Daily Show is a bit of an oldster now.

Maher doesn’t have an ounce of Stewart’s courage or principles:

...instead of expressing my own.

Nope.

...you just don't like my response to your condescending remark that 'I'm smarter' than to have a different view of Stewart than you.

I am not happy with all the Biden jokes I've heard the past few years, but I'm not going to throw all our comedians out the window. So many have provided a valuable service at a time when we really need their voices. I just wish they'd stay away from the ageism jokes. Even Stephen Colbert does it on occasion and it makes me cringe. SNL has lost me completely however. They just went too far, too often.

1+

Last week's monologue: all that was missing in Hur's report was "I'm Donald Trump, and I approve this message."

...is that they're unwilling to make jokes about conservatives. Too many people here have joined the right wing in only wanting to hear things that target the other side.

...not one second.

Ask how many people want to to hear someone yucking it up about Democrats or Pres. Biden today.

Democrats are a large coalition of diverse and disparate interests and concerns from myriad parts of the nation.

None of that is a joke, or is furthered, advanced, or aided by a cynical clown stepping all over themselves to get a laugh out of it. It's just insulting and banal.

THAT'S why this shit is best left to lambasting the opposition. There's an absolute limit to ragging on family if you care enough about what concerns them. Gloves off for the MAGA opposition.

This isn't hard.

...that I somehow need this two-bit comedian to tell me what's what.

That's your argument? That I'm in a bubble because I won't tolerate someone joking about serious concerns like an idiot?

Let's understand something here. Jon Stewart may well be advocating something or other that you think is important, so you and anyone else who think he's some sort of revelation need to keep watching him.

Keep watching him until he gets around to something you think is important or vital.

What he represents to me is a cynical, fantastical view of our two-party system which assumes that standing outside and throwing stones, refusing to commit to a party is some kind of virtue.

You may well disagree, but I don't see any value in people like Stewart who insist their empty hands are superior to our party's working ones.

I don't have a wit of interest in his jokes, and I think many of them are antithetical to what he claims to want.

Your mileage may vary.

I got all of that, btw, by listening to everything. The overwhelming majority of my posts here come with receipts that I get from paying attention and retaining what I learn, from every source available except the absurd and malicious.

I'm not a politician, a media source, a public official, faux-political television personality or part of any other entity that deserves to be held to this nebulous standard of yours.

I have interests and concerns that, despite what you may think of me, I don't wear on my sleeve --rather, I advocate for a broader progress than my own vital interests.

But, I don't deserve to be lambasted for not following some gadfly tv clown like a sycophant who doesn't have his own life or identity.

I'm not here for Jon Stewart, I'm here for my family, myself, and myriad other people and interests that share those. That's not a bubble, it's a broad and expansive life, according to MY OWN principles and expectations.

That's what I share here. Not from a bubble, but from the broad view of my own experienced life. A piffle, perhaps to you, projecting whatever you can conjure about me from a little box of words.

But like most people here, I'm much more than what I express here, and I'd expect grown people to understand and respect that.

Perhaps the problem is thinking of a comedy show as a source of information of opinion.

...you talked around yourself instead of addressing your insulting remark.

Maybe give it a rest.

I'm not afraid to hear alternative viewpoints.

...and declared I'm in a bubble because of my viewpoint.

If you want people to accept what you say as sincere and informed, you should do the same.

Now, stop harassing me over your own insult.

...wife 67.

We're collectively about 65.

When "here" is DU, that makes sense. The Daily Show is not "here." It is not their portfolio to be a funny version of DU.

And to the extent that their audience may not be entirely Dems (imagine!), showing *some* understanding of or sympathy with the other side might actually make some non-Dems a bit more receptive to the presentation of his generally leftier perspective.

...I'm older than I am young, and I'm not ambivalent about what I want out of life right now.

Your mileage may vary.

It's clearly NOT a time for "bothsiderism".

Exactly this.

That Bidens age ISN’T an issue? In the real world, I’m hearing grumbling, frustration and yes- lots of jokes, from other democrats about his age and the issues that come with it but here we are expected to just stick our heads in the sand and pretend all is hunky dory.

Wanna do something other than whistle in the wind platitudes about ageism? Weaponize this ish!! Trump is also OLD AF. So whenever anyone mentions Biden’s age the response is “oh well, that’s who we have and your alternative is the doddering old man in Florida who wants to be dictator before he dies. So are you going to pick the old man who gives a damn about regular American citizens or the sleazy old man who runs a criminal empire?”

There is no balance between trump and Biden on any other issue EXCEPT AGE.

Pushing Biden into the same basket on “dementia “ is not a joke to a lot of us.

Spending “equal time” joking about this issue only hurts Biden at this point.

This is an opinion.

I mean, the fact is that Biden is an old man. That's not a disqualifying condition. Trump is also an old man. Jon Stewart acknowledged that and told jokes about it. That's not both sides crap.

Unlike Trump, Biden is competent, has accomplished a lot as president, and has managed to avoid a whole host of negative things like sexually assaulting people, inciting insurrection, or advocating abandoning our allies. Stewart made all that clear as well. Again, not both sides crap.

But pretending that Biden's age isn't real or that his age doesn't occasionally show isn't going to win anyone to his side. Reacting angrily to anybody who mentions it, and insisting that Biden is not an old man, is not going to inspire any sort of confidence. Clearly we want people to vote for Biden. Acknowledging (or even making jokes about) his age isn't going to prevent voters from doing that. Voters can see that for himself. Insisting that we all pretend otherwise, and making that pretense a requirement for "true" support, seems patently absurd.

@jonstewart: "The stakes of this election don't make Donald Trump's opponent less subject to scrutiny. It actually makes him more subject to scrutiny. If the barbarians are at the gate, you want Conan standing on the ramparts, not the Chocolate Chip Cookie guy."

Who's Stewart's candidate in this election?

This is Democratic Underground, btw, and we're here to support Democrats. The only one runnning against the president right now is Dean Phillips at 3% nationally.

What exactly is Stewart advocating for here?

...neither of them have a viable alternative, but they'll keep banging on about sometthing that no one can fix, outside of re electing this successful president whose age didn't prevent him from achieving anything.

If it's not ignorant, useless apathy from Stewart, then it's subversive ratfucking.

And he knows that Biden is the only alternative to Trump. The fact that these two are our choices was an organizing principle of last night's rant. This election depends on getting democratic voters to the polls and getting swing voters to vote for Biden. Insisting either that it isn't true that he's an old man or that we shouldn't ever mention that truth is not, in my opinion, an effective strategy to make that happen.

Given that these two are our choices, and that the opposition is going to attack Biden for his age, Stewart's viable alternative was that we will hopefully see a more effective response to the issue.

...and ultimately apathy.

His handwringing over something he knows well Joe Biden can't do much about (certainly not stop aging) isn't helping.

It's self-serving to his sense of humor, but people will tell you with seriousness that he's a sincere advocate. If that's the case then advocate sincerely, not this cynical game where he feigns concern over something he knows is intractable, for giggles.

Who asked him to? Who told him that whinging about age is more important to the reelection campaign of Pres. Biden than the myriad other issues and accomplishments that characterize his presidency?

And that is much more likely to lead to apathy than is the simple acknowledgement of that fact.

Biden is old. Biden is the clear choice over Donald Trump.

Both of those things can be true. In fact, both of those things are pretty obvious, in my book, and I'm going to have a hard time trusting the judgment of anybody who insists that either is untrue.

And call me crazy, but I think that's where most of the electorate is at as well.

Let us consider a different pair of statements: "Biden is not old. Biden is the clear choice over Donald Trump."

I think the number of people who are going to find it easy or imaginable to agree with both of those statements is probably smaller. Because as a fact we know that Biden is 81 years old, and most people are going to agree that that is old. And occasionally Biden says or does something that people might "read" as a sign of age.

So if the strategy to get people motivated to go to the polls and convinced to vote for Biden when they're there is to somehow get them to agree with the second set of statements ... well, I think that's a pretty bad strategy, because I think most people are going to find that difficult.

If it's a referendum on Biden's accomplishments as president versus Trump's accomplishments, then we win easily.

If it's a referendum on Biden's suitability for office vs Trump's suitability, then we win easily.

If it's a referendum on policies, then we win easily.

If it's a referendum on age, then it's a wash, because they're both old.

If it's a referendum on whether or not Biden is an old man ... well, that's a bit more vulnerable, because "Joe Biden is not an old man" is not likely to convince a lot of people.

...not the Biden campaign.

It's really something if he believes he's some sort of political pied piper. No one elected Stewart, or even hired him to serve in that role.

I don't think the Biden campaign is going to be as ambivalent as the people who think this election is an unfathomable question.

Put those folks at the back of the campaign.

...you have people arguing that he's 'just a comedian,' and others arguing that he's some important advocate for party and president.

That's what I'm judging him on, so take your pick. Either you're helping this campaign, or you're just riffing off of it.

If he doesn't think helping this president get reelected is more important, then he's really not helping anything but his tv act.

Don't act as if that's hard to understand.

He's an advocate for the public, and in so doing he's helping the campaign because in this campaign being an advocate for honest discussion can only help one candidate. Donald Trump's only hope is a world full of lies.

Don't act as if that's hard to understand.

...an example:

washingtonpost 2015
Jon Stewart perfectly diagnosed the problem with Hillary Clinton’s candidacy
by Chris Cillizza

Link to tweet

...it's this kind of undermining of Hillary which got us Trump.


You do the math any way you want, that was the result of people like Stewart who though they were kingmakers in the election.

He said many times that both partiies are the same, for anyone who bothers to listen.

...there's nothing 'laughable ' about my opinion, and if you think so you need to find something else to humor yourself with.

Always surprised at people who try to get me to read their opinion after ridiculing my own.

We're done.

I also find it a little bit surprising that you bristle at what you perceive as my ridicule, as though your behavior throughout the thread has been free of ridicule and condescension.

But, at any rate, it appears we're past the point where the discussion can proceed productively. I hope that Stewart continues doing what he's doing, because I think he's bringing a net good to our electoral possibilities. Likewise, I hope that your enthusiasm for the Biden campaign continues unabated. Have a great Tuesday, bigtree.

...to people who present themselves that way to me.

I think some folks here think because they're able to respond to a thread that the poster is supposed to be agreeable to their pov.

Some get frustrated and lash out. I'm very adept at responding to those posts, as well, and I'm no stranger to being bullied on a thread as if I have some obligation to respond.

Those who are projecting some kind of authoriative demand for attention may get even less for that effort from me.

Most of my posts are a share, not an obligation, and most DUers respond as if they understand there's an ordinary person on the other end, as you did at the beginning of our discussion, which I always appreciate.

I'm always eager to share ideas, and I'm more sure of what I believe than anything else I post, so I get a bit sore at folks who want to denigrate those.

This tiff is more about my fatigue with responding than from your own back and forth.

I appreciate the kind word, though.

Her entire career has been dedicated to making the lives of women and children better, has been consistent and authentic. Believing an absurd caricature... dumb.

to Save Democracy.. as long as JS gets his GD laughs.

In fact, I think that by doing the sort of thing he did yesterday, he will (a) get his GD laughs, (b) ultimately be a net benefit to Biden's electoral chances, and maybe even, as it happens (c) help save democracy.

that Stewart was trying to say that Biden's team should stop making Tik-Tok videos about chocolate chip cookie making moms and talk about more serious substantive subjects?

That's where I saw that particular criticism aimed anyway, but I could be wrong.

...if that's true, he's full of shit and needs to take more time looking at what this campaign team is doing and lift a finger to promote that, not his dumbded-down cynicism, pretending or sadly projecting that he doesn't have access to more than this tired MAGAcrite trope about age.

He's saying that President Biden should be portrayed better and stronger, in more "Conan the Barbarian" style than rooting for chocolate chip cookies.

He's saying "SHOW Biden BEING the strong, capable, multi-tasking, take-no-shit manager of all that's important that you all say he is 'behind the scenes.' The public needs to SEE it, not just hear about it." And that the cookie thing just makes him look old and ineffectual. It feeds into the "Biden is old" narrative, to his and our detriment.

Yes, Biden's track record as president so far is enormous, and in a perfect world would speak for itself. But it's not speaking loudly enough to be heard by those who need to hear it. I agree with Stewart that the campaign needs to highlight his strengths more (though I disagree that filming and releasing closed-door meetings is the way to do it).

At first I was taken aback by Stewart's harping on President Biden's age, but as the segment went on I came to see it as showing us what the rest of the general public outside DU are seeing, and his urging the campaign to get much better at portraying him as the warrior that he is.

It's that difference in perception of Trump and him as to which is SEEN and PERCEIVED as strong and capable that is important. Biden isn't being seen that way by too many, and that's what needs to change.

...all the while, at the same time, stepping all over what's actually important for voters to hear with their own myopic concern.

The disconnect is stunning.

But I do think he has a point.

By all means, YES his campaign should keep publicizing and emphasizing his accomplishments so far, and all that's at stake going forward.

But do so with an eye toward promoting Biden as the strong and capable fighter that he is.

Perception is important when it comes to people who just aren't as informed as they should be, and there are a lot of them out there whose votes we need.

I don't see a disconnect there.

Biden should be getting the most scrutiny. Makes no sense to me at all.

and one of the hosts actually asked him a question implying he attacks both sides. He said (paraphrasing) he doesn't want to demonstrate "left or right" - he wants to show good from bad or integrity from corruption and the voter chooses. Or something to that effect, implying he is a "both-sider" and we have to decide for ourselves which one is worse.

His views are clear.

He plays to the middle.

Don't like? Don't watch.

I don’t

Was "bothsideism"
It matters because, despite some opinions otherwise, Stewart's opinion carries significant weight, especially with younger voters.

Watch his opening segment, he mentions Biden's age twice as much as he does any criticism of Trump.

I don't know what kind of voodoo mind games y'all think he must be playing to say that but somehow secretly convince them not to do that but whatever.

it was not.

"Jon Stewart kicks off his Daily Show Monday night residency by coming to grips with the reality of America's two chronologically challenged presidential candidates: Joe Biden and Donald Trump...."

That's from the YouTube version of last night's show and it's YouTube short synopsis.

It's *literally* pulling the "both sides" bullshit.

I'd also take umbrage with the continued false narrative that no one wants to see Biden -- or Trump, for that matter -- run for president again. They are both going to dominate their respective primaries. Maybe if people don't want to see them run again, they should vote in the primaries for someone else rather than just constantly bitch about it on the internet? As it stands, the only people that matter here -- the voters themselves -- look to want both Biden and (sadly) Trump to run again.

They weren't nearly as good as him at the job.

I couldn't watch the other hosts.

There were episodes that didn't make me laugh once.

... they tossed him in as a place holder for someone who didn't show up. I think Noah is a lot stronger as a performer now and will do very well when he gets his late night show.

Within three minutes, it was like watching the old show. Trevor Noah could never. (And I was one of the few people who liked him)

I thought the segment was great - and hilarious - but I was definitely thinking while watching, "Yeah, DU's gonna hate this."

when he said "I was hoping I wouldn't have to do this." The man is tired. Look at those red-rimmed eyes. He said point blank that Biden's first term was "phenomenal." The world is chaotic right now, maybe in a better timeline we'd have younger candidates better able to handle the physical demands of the job. Clinton slept what, maybe 2-3 hours a night as president? Is anyone seriously thrilled to realize that an 81 year old may have to get by on 2-3 hours a night for the next four years? It's not a question of whether he can, he's obviously already fulfilled the duties of the job.

When did old become a dirty word? Pretending 81 is the new 24 seems pointless.

There was that totally bizarre period where people were doing things like showing her work out and saying, "I could never keep up with her!"

And I was standing there like, "What the fuck is happening . . ." She was an older - frail - woman who had visibly slowed down in her twilight years. But people didn't want to hear that, so they went full Soviet on the situation and just created an entirely new reality surrounding her that looked insane to anyone who was standing outside the shared delusion circle.

And Biden isn't RBG. He is as healthy an 81 year old as there is by all accounts.

But it's still 81, and that's going to elicit a lot of commentary. Voters are side-eyeing the whole situation. It's going to be the campaign's job to assuage doubts. That's the hand that's been dealt. Running around with, "He's doing differential calculus while I can barely balance my checkbook Ha Ha!" isn't a good look. Voters are weird and fickle and difficult, but they do not like it when they're blatantly lied to their face.

Ok, non-Trump voters don't. With Trump voters, I think being lied to is part of the appeal and the fantasy with them.

We can't emperor's new clothes the situation. In the age of social media, plugged in 24/7, it's a losing strategy. Stewart is pointing that out.

(While looking up something to see if I was remember correctly, I found this flashback of an article from 2018. See if you notice any similarities and shudder at how gobsmackingly prescient it was, right down to the replacement: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/11/what-cult-ruth-bader-ginsburg-rbg-got-wrong-obama-trump/)

Appreciated this:

'nuff said.

It was almost like he never left.

Laundry list of some of the evil trump has done.

But I still feel he is encouraging third party voting.

Also made me really upset to see President Biden claim there is a border between Palestine and MEXICO. Damn ! 😢

...and he's thinking he can exploit issues for attention which really don't need him generating cynicism for clicks and ratings.

These middle of the roaders really think they're doing something special because everyone else with a brain knows not to go there and they see the vacuum.

It's just the worst kind of politics, and his spiel is just going to get worse. Sure, he''ll take down the low-hanging fruit that's trump, but he won't settle for just anti-Trump viewers, he'll crave the anti-Biden applause, especially the anti-Democratic applause like he's some sort of political hero for mouthing off.

It's his thing.

...

@jonstewart: "The stakes of this election don't make Donald Trump's opponent less subject to scrutiny. It actually makes him more subject to scrutiny. If the barbarians are at the gate, you want Conan standing on the ramparts, not the Chocolate Chip Cookie guy."

Link to tweet

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Last edited Tue Feb 13, 2024, 12:56 PM - Edit history (1)

Seeing that the "bothsiderism" there was on the topic of age, I think it may be worth noting: Most of the media is focussed on Biden's age, but not Trump's. In that context, maybe "bothsiderism" is helpful. We can't do anything to make Biden not old. The way to level that particular aspect of this playing field might be to strongly point out that, in fact, Trump has no real advantage here. This could be a case where denying your own candidate's shortcoming could work against you, it's not an unreasonable concern. Instead it might be better to get people to understand that, while it may be a shortcoming, it is a shortcoming equally shared by both candidates. Which means that, the end, it is not something that should be an important factor in your evaluation of the candidates.

...or these things:










thread:

Link to tweet

One, that stuff is important, but that doesn't mean that people aren't thinking about age. We can't put our heads in the sand. These other things can be discussed as well, while not simply ignoring the elephant in the room (even if it's largely the media that has put the elephant there in the first place). But that also brings me to...

Two, that stuff is not as easy to make a humorous, entertaining sketch about. That is, after all, the point of the show.

I think what you're looking for is more of a John Oliver approach. But we also have John Oliver for that. That's not what Stewart does. But sure, not every show is for every viewer, and even not every left-leaning show is for every left-leaning viewer.

People here similarly sometimes get bugged when Colbert takes jabs at Biden. Colbert, likewise, is not for everyone. But mass entertainment is not exclusively targeted toward "us." And again, the show is much tougher on TFG, and there is again that argument to be made that the show makes its TFG points more strongly (at least to the "general public" ) because it does not see our candidate as flawless.

...none of this historically successful presidency.

The only thing thiat it does is distract from the rest of the campaign's intentions to promote the man's agenda and his many other attributes.

Not grouse around dishonestly like his age has been some kind of handicap.

and, I fear, honest examination.

There is no good thing about jumping Stewart's spiel as bothsiderism. Why isn't the corporate media reminding the world that Trump is a horrible nightmare? They are, in fact, burning their best energies diffusing his neurotic cruelty expose which serves him for personality, occupation and character. The fact that Trump is old is lost in this media "cover-up-by-ignoring and deflecting" dance of mania. The fact that the media will not let up on Biden's age means they have no legitimate complaint about him. They're too scared for their long-term corporate survival to repeat verbatim and with conviction, Trump's blather as fact. People could easily figure out their game, eh?

It is good to remind everyone that, on the metric of age, they are a tie, equally guilty of living long. It informs the national conversation enjoyed every four years. It clears the air and the playing field, so the rest of the candidate's personalities and characters bear scrutiny. That, friends, is an invaluable boost for Joe. And in the "tough crowd" of American electoral politics, we and he need all we can get.

Last edited Tue Feb 13, 2024, 06:04 PM - Edit history (1)

Link to tweet

.

the irony is palpable here lol.

(Thanks Rhiannon12866!, I don't do cable. https://democraticunderground.com/132212290 )

I did not get any bad impression from it. Stewart confronted the age question head on and treated honestly. The "bothsiderism" was strictly about the fact that both Biden and trump are not young (and neither is Stewart).

Yes Stewart could have pointed out the vast differences that DO exist between the two candidates, but remember, this is a comedy show. That's all it is.

If we're going to rely on comedians to save democracy, maybe we should elect Zelenskyy, but my money is on Biden.

...I think that's how this works.