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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI wish people would quit attacking "English" majors.
I put English in quotes because this thread does not apply to only English majors. Rather, it applies to any major that people attack as being worthless, rather it be English, history, philosophy, etc. I see so many people attacking these majors saying they are a waste of a degree and people who get them deserve to be poor if they can't find a job.
What people don't seem to realize is we need English majors, who else is going to teach our kids to read and write correctly? The same applies to history, if you don't know the mistakes of the past then you are going to repeat them. Philosophy is the one that gets attacked the most, but I think we need philosophers, hell I think our high schools should require philosophy courses, it would be good for students to learn to question and think critically.
What people don't seem to understand is our society owes a lot more to English majors and other educators than we do to CEOs. Educators are the real job creators, not CEOs.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)white_wolf
(6,238 posts)I see a poster on another forum(an admitted Mussolini style Fascist) attacking English majors as not contributing to society and it got me thinking. The bad thing is most normal conservatives and even some liberals seem to share the Fascist's view that English majors are worthless.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)Perhaps you could guide us there?
white_wolf
(6,238 posts)The guy's name is Viktyr Kormir. His profile says progressive, but he's admitted to being a Fascist and proud of it. The sad part is, I like him better than a certain libertarian poster there who calls the poor parasites. Anyway, here the link to his post: http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/117213-should-equal-opportunity-mean-free-college.html
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)CLEAR they are right wing. Apparently though, that happens all the time.
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)"progressive" has actually become a GOOD word. Unlike "liberal" which has been demonized into distruction over the last 30 years. Like "socialist" before it, although "socialist" is making a comeback.
I'll put on my Nostradamus hat and make a prediction. As the word "socialist" grows in popularity over the next few years, watch how many RWers take up the appelation "socialist". Just like the Nazis did in the 30s, which was the last time that "socialist" was a popular term.
They not only don't care that they're fooling people with their characterizations, at times I'm convinced that they don't even KNOW what these words mean in a political sense.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)centrists, and attempting to create issues. In fact, I read in 3 separate right wingnut blogs people post that THEY have IDs in here (though they didn't refer to them by name), and so far they're still here because they're busy as bees passing as centrists.
Which is interesting. I swear to you I don't think I could pass for a 'puke even for a million dollars. I'd fail miserably because I lack their qualities of deception, hypocrisy, and just plain old ability to bullshit people into believing things that are wrong.
So yes, maybe they do put on different hats and assume disguises.
They don't fool me though. Every time I run into one on here, I want to smack the living _____ out of him. (They're usually males).
I do love the fact that on D.U. they can't spew what they want for fear of being punted. It's indeed a lovely thing!!
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)was an add on to a sports site. They set it up so that the sports topics didn't get hijacked by political opinions and subjects. Because it was s SOUTHERN sports site during the Bush II years, it was VERY right wing. So I got a GREAT education about HOW those people argue and distract. I can SEE it in their posts and so I know that some posters on here are RWers either disguised or barely disguised. Of course, I can't "call them out", but trust me, they give themselves away by the way they argue.
But you're right. At least on here they can't spew their garbage with impunity.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)that kind of degree. I do like the idea of a rounded education and eliminating these things as important is a foolish thing for a society to do.
Sarah Ibarruri
(21,043 posts)You're right that it is a foolish thing to do to eliminate these.
xchrom
(108,903 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)I've never regretted it. It didn't land me a job directly but it did help having a degree.
On the bright side, I was able to spurn the pocket protectors, brief-cases, and bow ties favored by the business majors.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)majoring in history.
My degree was pivotal in helping me realize that there are out of the box opportunities, and that led to lots of fun and still leads to lots of fun.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)He was right, in that the bigshots always end up in power and make a profession of screwing the ordinary people.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)lapislzi
(5,762 posts)History is also told through cultural artefacts. Visual arts tell the human story. We need people to interpret the history through artefacts, otherwise they are no more than pretty (or unintelligible) objects.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Skidmore
(37,364 posts)who go into our schools and teach our children proper spelling, punctuation, and grammar along with good writing skills. There needs to be an expectation for performance.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)?
HubertHeaver
(2,522 posts)Each state has its own requirements as well as each institution within each state defining the specific program.
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)It may "legally" qualify you to teach. But that doesn't mean you know how to teach. I am a wonderful example of that. Great at my job. Can't teach it worth shit.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)At least at the undergraduate level you are right.
As for graduate degrees in the humanities, well there are just no living wage jobs that require that anymore. Not more than a very few, anyway. Even professors of the humanities will say the same thing.
rfranklin
(13,200 posts)that has put the bad rap on "English majors."
I worked for many years in the publishing industry. Most publishers of newspapers and magazines consider the editorial portion of the magazine "that gray stuff that goes between the ads." So that's about the level of respect you get.
virgdem
(2,126 posts)I graduated in the mid-70's, when jobs for English Majors and other Humanities disciplines declined, due in part to a recession at the time. The demand for Humanities/Arts Majors never rebounded and those of us did what we could to find decent employment that paid more than minimum wage. I always wished that I could do Math, but I'm a Math dummy, so that was never possible.
aikoaiko
(34,170 posts)...its really hard for me to have sympathy and not be snarky. No one deserves, however, to be attacked simply for being an "English" major.
Almost every thinking person loves the humanities and those who seek advanced education in the humanities, but too many people are making really bad economic choices about college and then complaining about those choices.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)That is what seeing that kind of idiocy on a left-leaning board indicates to me, anyway.
It is ******* sad.
white_wolf
(6,238 posts)We took the 80's greed is good message to heart and it has caused us nothing, but problems. Thanks for totally fucking things up, Raygun.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)Debt is fucking modern day indentured servitude.
/English major
white_wolf
(6,238 posts)Personally, I think public University should be fully funded. If we have to tax the top 1% to do that, then so be it.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)There's a very, very strong correlation between academic performance of child and wealth of parents.
If - as does not seem sane to oppose - students continue to be selected on academic grounds, a large majority of those who get in will be the children of rich parents.
So blanket state funding of university education works out as spending the taxes of all, including the poor, predominantly on the children of the rich.
There are a couple of solutions, of which the one I think is probably the best is a graduate tax.
HubertHeaver
(2,522 posts)with that combination became very valuable working in a multi-national corporation's export compliance division. English majors would also do very well in either export or import positions.
white_wolf
(6,238 posts)Simply because philosophy teaches critical thinking skills and business schools teach a lot of jargon, but few actual skills. I could be mistaken, it's just something that's come up in conversation.
The Wizard
(12,545 posts)between education and training.
See Cardinal Newman's treatise "The Idea of A University,"1854.
Lance_Boyle
(5,559 posts)I think you may be on to something here.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)the lack of jobs in the field. A college major is an adult choice and choices have consequences. No one is owed a professional salary just because they have a BA or MA.
History, English, Philosophy, Sociology, etc are important areas of study.However we are producing many more of them than needed to fill available teaching slots. These are not hidden facts and are well known to those choosing to major in such areas.
If you decide to major in English/History/etc and also take the required teaching courses as well, my hat is off to you. If you take such a major with no plan on what to do afterwards...
REP
(21,691 posts)Sure, the degree(s) allow you to sub in most districts, but of all my friends with English or other Humanities degrees, only one is a teacher - and she went back to University (College of Ed) to get another couple degrees
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)jobs in the field or the salary they are making in an unrelated field.
REP
(21,691 posts)I have never had (or particularly wanted) a job in the fields I have degrees; I studied them because I thought they were interesting. I was very dumb in many ways at 17 (I entered as a Sophmore and had to declare) I don't overly regret being an idiot most days, though. I do wish I had enough money and patience for more degrees I won't use to learn more stuff I can't use.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I think there's a noticeable and relevant difference between 'whining' and simply being concerned. Of the latter, I've seen more than a handful. Of the first, not so much-- but I imagine we often interpret people's reaction in a way that better suits our own presumptions.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)This was also roundly discussed on DU2 in several threads
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8443611
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8440121&mesg_id=8440121
U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)stay classy
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)I value the liberal arts and strongly support it. Higher education needs to be more than a trade school. I often encourage those I advise to have a non-technical minor if they have another field that they enjoy.
I teach firearms as self defense on the side and support an individual's right to effective self defense. I am not sure what it has to do with this topic other than an attempted ad hominem.
taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)so few people know how to write in business any more.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)I work in property restoration (for now, at least; I'm a few months away from being one of those mythical people with a humanities degree who lands something in their discipline) and oh sweet holy mother of Jesus is it depressing being roughly the only literate person in the industry around here sometimes. I'm not even counting the carpenters and such - the managers and insurance adjusters' prose is nearly opaque sometimes in both spelling and writing style.
I'm probably, and I really wish I was exaggerating, one of the only people in the province working in that field who could write a single complete page of text without having to spend three days revising it. I get that the people in the field aren't exactly coming from a terribly academic crowd, but the disconnect there astonishes me, especially when I'm seeing it from the people whose jobs consist chiefly of communicating with people in writing.
handmade34
(22,756 posts)a son who will graduate from UVM with a Philosophy major (well... double major w/history) I agree...
REP
(21,691 posts)I don't think anyone in my husband's department has anything other than a Humanities degree.
white_wolf
(6,238 posts)I always thought software engineering would have been more of a thing for math majors, since writing code seems to involve a ton of math.
REP
(21,691 posts)...and none of these people are really Mr Average Anything (height, maybe ).
I learned to code first in high school and then as a typesetter (which was first in college, but on the student newspaper and not a class). Tons of other people learned to code in similar ways.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Comp Sci/Comp Engineering are not necessarily the best programers.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)and now she is teaching English and reading comprehension to middle schoolers. So what is wrong with a person majoring in English?
white_wolf
(6,238 posts)iemitsu
(3,888 posts)are under attack because they are the "top of the food chain" subjects.
to do well in these subjects requires that one understand a little about a lot. these are the folk who can make sense dis-separate bits of information and are therefore dangerous to those who wish to dismantle our society.
juajen
(8,515 posts)iemitsu
(3,888 posts)Neoma
(10,039 posts)Some people like that since a lot of computer geeks can't communicate properly and he can.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I believe it was my degree in history that allowed me the opportunities at my job (which is decidedly, non-history oriented) to go from proof-reading (lowest on the food chain) to Team Manager (manager of three departments, and only four steps from CEO) in less than five years, and quadruple my pay rate in that same time scale.
There are lessons quite particular to the Humanities that may be referenced in almost every aspect of our lives, and for that reason, I'm quite happy that I never reduced my options to business or (ack!) engineering, of which I was lectured quite often about to do so that I would better realize my "full economic potential"
Although I had no idea what the history degree would allow me in life at the time, I'm certainly happy that I looked at it as a passion of mine rather than a cost/benefit analysis of my future.
That being said; how do you get a history major off your front stoop? Pay for the pizza and tip well. Ba-dum-CHING.
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)the commercial sector, if they aren't outsourced, are offered to H1B visa holders who'll work for less. Cutbacks in aerospace have meant layoffs for thousands of engineers working for companies and on projects where citizenship and a security clearance are required. The prospects have never been bleaker.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)At it's core philosophy is the study of reality and how we perceive it. Reality is what we thnk it is. What we think of things is a physical problem, biology essentially. And biology is just chemistry.
Neuroscience has killed philosophy.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Even the English majors look down on me, lol. Good thread, ww. In this economy I have a hard time encouraging my students to pursue liberal arts majors but I would love to.
msongs
(67,413 posts)until we get some federal leadership on the side of teachers, that's the likely outcome
The Wizard
(12,545 posts)History - Historian
Psychology - Psychologist
Chemistry - Chemist
Biology - Biologist
Meteorology - Meteorologist
English - Professor
Glad to hold a degree in English literature.
I chose English as a major because the English professors always had the most coherent and interesting lectures.
mrs_p
(3,014 posts)And, who cares what someone wants to study?
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)Now the companies are too stingy to train college graduates. They want them already trained and thoroughly indoctrinated in right-wing economics.
catrose
(5,068 posts)is that people (at least at the initialed large company where I am a contractor) is that they hire "technical geniuses" and make them do stuff they have no training for--like training and writing courseware. But you see, they're such geniuses that they can do anything! Except write clearly in their native language, develop a course, or operate desktop publishing software. But they can hire contractors to do all that worthless stuff. And it would take less time if I just wrote the stuff from scratch.
I've been at this company for 6 years, and they love my work, but they will never hire me because I don't have a technical degree, although I do have a BA and an MBA.
Go figure.
Sadly,
a la izquierda
(11,795 posts)who will likely take 20 years to pay off her loans.
My uncle, who recently retired from an insurance giant, said how frustrated he was with his newly graduated hires during his tenure. The hand-holding and editing they required was astonished, considering the Ivy League business schools these kids came from.
politicasista
(14,128 posts)I studied various English Literatures (i.e. Harlem Rennaissance) while in college.
HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)Disclaimer: I have degrees in both philosophy and mathematics.
If the job description doesn't match the degree, many people (including in my own family) consider it worthless. I'm disgusted by what a large percentage of our population can't even construct a syntactically correct sentence. I'm not talking about immigrants. The GOP strategy is to eliminate education on all levels to increase their base. Yes, their real base consists of the 1%, but in the voting process (if you still have any faith in the electronic machines) consists mostly of "guns, anti-abortion, and Jesus" people with substandard education. I also call those "FOX viewers".
By vilifying educators, how are we serving the goal of preserving our society and country? Those that attempt to do so are simply interested in preserving their flow of money. "Pissed, we are. Hmmm."
And as for philosophy and mathematics, I frequently walked out of "Founders Hall" having discussed those of the discipline known as "philosophy" and entered a room in Pierce only to find that my mathematics professor was discussing the exact same individual. I'm sure it was coincidental, but it happened frequently. I'll excuse Socrates, Plato, and Sartre from this cross-over.
Education isn't just about learning the three "R's", but more about learning how to think about whatever subject or task you are challenged to undertake. It is a sad fact, but English as a well-defined language is disappearing. Here in PA, it is common to hear people (including my wife, a native to the state) neglecting to include the infinitive - "The clothes need washed." That one is a thorn in my side. I've traveled quite a bit on business and curiously found that Canadians are more likely to have a solid foundation in English grammar and syntax than those in the US. That's rather sad.
Disclaimer: My wife is an early childhood and elementary teacher with a B.S. in both and an M.S. in elementary ed. It is somewhat relegated to the level of garbage collector in the eyes of many. That isn't meant as a slur toward garbage collectors. That's a trashy job (pun intended) and most do an excellent job of it and are not appreciated. Besides, I grew up in MD and still say "worshe" the clothes, but that's because all of my elders did.
Nikia
(11,411 posts)I don't think that it is because Americans are using worse grammar than they did generations before. They grow up hearing the grammar rule being broken multiple times by many people so it sounds right.
HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)The teaching of other languages is also under attack. It won't be long before the US is as bi-lingual as Montreal. Some places already are. I think Oklahoma is safe for at least two generations. I do pretty well with Russian and German, but I'm not particularly well-versed in Spanish (but all three of my daughters are - the youngest is taking her fifth year of it in the school year to come). I know some Korean, a wee bit of French, some Arabic, and a shitload of computer CPU machine code languages. I can't figure out Japanese to save me.
But without a foundation to communicate in, how do we keep a society together? That's not to imply that other languages are inferior. If anything, English is such a conglomerate that it by its own existence is inferior. It is still the language of the US and well understood in most parts of the world. I've often found that people from other countries have a greater grasp of the language than the people I encounter in my own country.
Without ASCII, I couldn't even type this and have someone in Europe or Asia, or anywhere else for that matter, even be able to interpret it. ASCII-16bit encompasses pretty much the entire world as a character set, and yet it still devolves into 8-bit English ASCII. I doubt we'll ever have a world-wide universal language, but why bother? Diversity is a beneficial aspect of being human, not a problem. I would so like to say I'm not a bigot, but I do have one group I am bigoted against - those who are bigoted against people of other races, cultures, languages, food preferences, or religions.
There are two ways to handle such people. You can educate the ignorant, but you can't fix stupid. Among the ignorant, a non-confrontational discussion allows them to see the potential that their long-held views are outdated or mistaken from the onset (not necessarily the latter). For example - "Blacks are dirty". Yeah, well, when you keep them in barns and don't let them wash between shifts in the crop fields, yeah, they'll get dirty. Slaves throughout human history suffered the same way. Is that true of blacks today? Fuck no. Anyone can be clean and anyone can be dirty. It has nothing to do with race. Are Mexicans lazy? If you have ever worked with one, you would know otherwise. Old stereotypes outlive their foundation, yet many stick to them. Yes, I'm a bigot - I can't stand bigots who judge people on the grounds that they are different from themselves. I'll admit that.
People are people. How much simpler a way can you express that? Too many people are so caught up in their own sense of superiority that they just can't grasp the concept. I do what I can to change minds, but a locked mind isn't going anywhere. Yes, I'm white by genetics, but I do have two Native Americans in my heritage (17th century) and I, my mother, and my youngest daughter show signs of the ancestors' traits. That kind of freaks me out because I know how genetics work and am inclined to think that they would be rather diluted by now. My older two daughters show no traits I would claim to be Native American, well, other than their attitudes about nature, but that is most likely a result of how we raised them.
tomp
(9,512 posts)an extensive and broad knowledge base and higher level thought process is for commies and faggots.
this is a large part of the fascist program.
tomp
(9,512 posts)Puregonzo1188
(1,948 posts)DU.
tawadi
(2,110 posts)Could you please provide an example?
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)They more or less all devolve into mudslinging and people convinced that higher education is merely vocational training.
tawadi
(2,110 posts)Sorry to hear that.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)in a number of different styles. That has served me very well in a number of businesses I have started and owned, and has provided my living since 1974. The only writing style I have never used since college is the academic style, but I was very good with that style, too, when I needed it.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)Has nothing to do with the job or what the person is qualified in...
I usually ignore majors/degrees unless the person is right out of school
4_TN_TITANS
(2,977 posts)but I discovered that my mastery of communication was valuable to businesses who want to maintain superior relationships with their customers. I'm now an international sales support representative and have kept a nice customer service job for a manufacturer who made it through the recession in pretty good shape.
I honestly had no clue what I would do with an English degree upon graduating college, I sure didn't want to be a teacher, but it worked out good for me and good for business communications. Anybody is welcome to make fun of my degree and the well-paying office jobs I've had since 1996 - nonstop.
cemaphonic
(4,138 posts)Most of the hard science jobs that are available for BS degrees are pretty poor wages, and don't offer a lot in the way of advancement. A Masters or PHD obviously improves the situation, but the same is true in the humanities.
Apparently, everyone should just major in business and engineering.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)colleges turning out job-ready corporate cogs who do what they're told.
BrendaBrick
(1,296 posts)In part: "MBA Oath is a voluntary student-led pledge that asks graduating MBAs to commit towards the creation of value "responsibly and ethically." As of January 2010, the initiative is driven by a coalition of MBA students, graduates and advisors, including nearly 2,000 student and alumni signers from over 500 MBA programs around the world.[1] By formalizing a written oath and creating forums for individuals to personally commit to an ethical standard, the initiative hopes to accomplish three goals:
to make a difference in the lives of the individual students who take the oath,
to challenge other classmates to work towards a higher professional standard, whether they sign the oath or not, and
to create a public conversation in the press about professionalizing and improving management.[2]"
<snip>
MBA Oath (short version)
As a manager, my purpose is to serve the greater good by bringing people and resources together to create value that no single individual can create alone. Therefore I will seek a course that enhances the value my enterprise can create for society over the long term. I recognize my decisions can have far-reaching consequences that affect the well-being of individuals inside and outside my enterprise, today and in the future. As I reconcile the interests of different constituencies, I will face choices that are not easy for me and others.
Therefore I promise:
I will act with utmost integrity and pursue my work in an ethical manner.
I will safeguard the interests of my shareholders, co-workers, customers and the society in which we operate.
I will manage my enterprise in good faith, guarding against decisions and behavior that advance my own narrow ambitions but harm the enterprise and the societies it serves.
I will understand and uphold, both in letter and in spirit, the laws and contracts governing my own conduct and that of my enterprise.
I will take responsibility for my actions, and I will represent the performance and risks of my enterprise accurately and honestly.
I will develop both myself and other managers under my supervision so that the profession continues to grow and contribute to the well-being of society.
I will strive to create sustainable economic, social, and environmental prosperity worldwide.
I will be accountable to my peers and they will be accountable to me for living by this oath.
This oath I make freely, and upon my honor.
<snip>
Professionalizing the MBA
In a larger context, the MBA Oath represents a small step towards professionalizing the management field in ways similar to the medical and law professions. The MBA Oath is the management equivalent of the Hippocratic Oath taken by doctors. HBS Professors Rakesh Khurana and Nitin Nohria are working with the World Economic Forum and the Aspen Institute to create an MBA Oath that might be used globally.[14] In an Harvard Business Review piece published in October 2008, Khurana and Nohria linked the connection between professionalism of a profession and the profession's ability to deliver value to society:
True professions bear a code of conduct, and the meaning and consequences of those codes are taught as part of the formal education of their members. A governing body, composed of respected members of the profession, oversees members compliance. Through these codes, professional institutions forge an implicit social contract with other members of society: Trust us to control and exercise jurisdiction over this important occupational category. In return, the profession promises, we will ensure that our members are worthy of your trustthat they will not only be competent to perform the tasks they have been entrusted with, but they will conduct themselves with high standards and integrity. On balance we believe that a profession, with well-functioning institutions of discipline, will curb misconduct because moral behavior is an integral part of the identity of professionals: a self-image most are motivated to maintain.
To reiterate: The MBA Oath is the management equivalent of the Hippocratic Oath taken by doctors. This makes tons of sense to me!
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)If you can't test it then it is not science, just argument, which is useless. If anyone tells you how they know how to optimally manipulate the economy for growth and maximum employment then they are either lying or (more terrifyingly) wrong without knowing that they are wrong. The finance stuff was fine and useful (bonds! coupons! present value!). But the microeconomic stuff ignored real people and the macro stuff was ugh, almost political. The courses in development economics were (if tried) affirmatively harmful.
But the statistics courses - best things I learned in college.
Did I learn how to learn in college? No. That is just pablum people who went to college like to tell themselves. I earned my cynicism early. Do you think that a person of moderately high IQ (130) that does not go to college will do worse in life then the same person with a degree in agronomy who goes into the advertising field? No, if the advertising company were allowed to hire the high IQ but low credentialed person.
barbtries
(28,798 posts)though i only got to the 2-year degree sadly. i haven't seen the attacks.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)it's the same attitude of people attacking liberal arts majors (maybe it's because the word liberal is in there that pisses them off). Anyway, if it weren't for art and creative writing classes in high school, I probably would have quit. Not every person is cut out to be a business major or a chemist or an engineer, etc. I certainly wasn't. De-emphasizing the arts as something that isn't worthwhile is harmful for kids who are creative.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)UGH!!
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Some of us actually make a living through writing and editing and such.
Dragonbreathp9d
(2,542 posts)Sorry assholes but making money sitting behind a desk screwing people is not only lame but has no impact on our overall society. What do we learn about from the olden days? What has changed thought and perception over the ages? Art, literature, history and philosophy. Fuck your pos business degree that didn't increase your knowledge of shit (no offense but I know some fuckin dumbasses with them) I DID learn something worthwhile
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Yahoo has decided to post a list of the "most worthless" college degrees. Two of the top 5 are involved with growing plants (agriculture and horticulture). Considering that we humans are heavily dependent on plants, I give Yahoo a big
http://education.yahoo.net/articles/most_useless_degrees.htm?kid=1KWNU
Nikia
(11,411 posts)Although some of those majors are a little specific, the jobs that it gave as opportunities aren't the only job that those majors could do. For example, meat companies and the USDA are interested in hiring people with animal science degrees in various capacities.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)They have a huge impact. I know a couple business majors who think working for XYZ corporation is great and they make lots of money. Of course, at the end of the day they have spent themselves on devising new ways to cut costs, new ways to extract profit from unsuspecting customers, new ways to skit environmental laws.
They have helped move jobs overseas, to increase the amount of children forced to work in slave labor, to enrich themselves at the cost of the forests & oceans.
They have a huge, horrible impact on the world and they and the drones which hover around them tell them money for the sake of money is all that matters. That this world is a giant oyster which they will greedily gobble up as much as they can never considering the cost. Never giving a second thought to expending massive amounts of the limited time they have on this ever shrinking and sickly planet to ensuring the corporation is healthy and will continue, unabated, suckling the marrow from the bones of our future families.
markpkessinger
(8,401 posts)... Ask them, for the sake of argument, what would happen if everyone got one of the degrees they deem "worthwhile." Would there not then be such a glut of finance types that there would be nowhere near enough jobs available for them? And would not those jobs then be just as "worthless?"
Cleita
(75,480 posts)just having a high school degree can't. Many employers like hiring college grads even if it's a trainee position for something they never studied for or learned because that degree says to them that the person can do math, think, and can speak and write in good grammatical English, which is necessary in the business world and for those who might rise to management positions. A high school degree doesn't always deliver that.
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)that there are more "English" majors than there are jobs that require (or even desire) an "English" major.
If you want to get an "English" major and have the money and time to do so, just to make yourself a more well-rounded person, go for it. Just don't be surprised when few employers are impressed by the degree.
The rule at my house is (was) that if my kids want(ed) any help/support in attending college, they had to show that it was worth the investment and that there was a decent projected job market in that field.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)And oddly enough, before I became disabled, most of my jobs I got had nothing to do with either major, but with the screwing around on the Computer I did in College. Somehow, despite myself, I became good at Computers, and that is the main thing that has ever gotten me a paycheck.
There are valid points on both sides. On the one hand, if I had a son or daughter that wanted to follow in his dad's footsteps (not that he could, since his alma mater canned half the liberal arts degress for FOOTBALL!) I would say, "OK, go for it, but would you also agree to take a course in a trade, like Medical assitant, Plumber,something you could fall back on." Some people might say that is overkill, but in this society, the idea of being overeducated is dead; you need everything and anything.
On the other hand, Ammerica is, to be blunt, an anti-intellectual society, and as a result, it treats whatever cannot make money as trash. The only reason Philosophy departments stay is because it is consdiered the new "pre-Law" degree (after all,it is arguing.) When I hear some types rail on those degrees, I begin to have a mixture of pity and contempt, for they remind me that our society does not like to think or feel, just smash stuff. It really hurts when I hear it from the Blue Collar types that I should consider comrades, but I hear them talk about how "schoolin is nonsense", and how art is for (very nasty word that rhymes with "Bags."
Simply put, we need the Humanities and Social Sciences because they help us think. They give us the tools to ponder, question, analyze, yet still feel. In a day and age where religious extremists of all stripes (but especially the God of Abraham's crew) are ganing power, we need to show people that they need not lose their soul and become machines, you can acknowledge that life has a lot to it that can never, ever be counted or mathematically analyzed, yet avoid supersition. If we do not feed that side of humanity, the side that cannot live on bread alone, then should not be surprised when supersitions and foolishness we thought were long dead become the new normal.
malthaussen
(17,202 posts)... I ended up teaching remedial English to the entering freshmen. There weren't enough English grad students to fill the need. So, to anwswer your rhetorical "who else is going to teach our kids to read and write correctly," the answer would be unemployed history majors.
-- Mal
JCMach1
(27,559 posts)and Engineers...
I currently live in and teach (also work as a University Administrator) in a culture that only wants Business and Engineering Majors... with an occasional M.D. thrown in for fun.
It sucks the creativity (and until quite recently) the political life out of your culture.
Where do I teach? The Middle-East...
And no, I don't want America to become like that...!
I double-majored in English and History... the double kiss of death. However, I have never been unemployed a day. I have been teaching (High School and University) since I left my alma mater in 1989. I worked my way through graduate school as a TA. I now do quite well as an Administrator.
Wait Wut
(8,492 posts)My father, a journalism major. My mom became an English teacher, my father owned three advertising agencies. One, one of the largest in Chicago back in the 70s. They both taught me to love words.
I don't see any major as a "waste". A friend of mine was whining a few months ago that his son has chosen to major in Philosophy and what a waste it was. How can pursuing enlightenment, your personal passion or a dream be wrong just because you may not get rich? Without people like this, we would have no great works of art, visual or otherwise. We would have no dreamers and schemers. The world would be gray and lifeless.
While many (mostly on the right) abolish the arts in our schools, but fight tooth and nail to protect our sports programs, those Liberal Arts hearts still beat.
And, while our teachers deserve our respect, let's not forget all those forgotten professors in life that teach not in classrooms, but in bars, restaurants or on our streets. Our poets, painters and philosophers that choose to color our world for free.
And, really, how many business majors do we really need? How many engineers are jobless? While our English majors and historians may be unemployed, as well, they still have their passion.
babydollhead
(2,231 posts)I tell my own children, if you can write, you create your own work. It's yours if you want it. Somebody, has got to say it all.
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)sees the value of that type of degree. If you can organize a writing project, you can organize your mind.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Kolesar
(31,182 posts)He used to cough deeply when he worked here.
I am imagining that he has heart disease from his years of smoking.
juajen
(8,515 posts)or written correctly, is getting rarer and rarer. I find mistakes everywhere, in magazines, newspapers and books. This is not a good thing. I have educators in my family, and they, too, are getting rarer.
JEB
(4,748 posts)and heart and let the money grubbing drones die with a shit pile of money but poor in every other way.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)by DU's resident misogynists.
Lauding "hard" sciences, attacking "soft" sciences. Clearly a further expression of their self loathing which they project onto all things perceived as "feminine"
dballance
(5,756 posts)I so agree. we need the teachers of English and the humanities. How else will people develop critical thought? Our founding fathers were pretty darned committed to critical thought and debating subjects. A skill and talent we have long lost. And some of our legislators have spurned because they fear actual discourse.
We actually need to get back to a time where we discuss issues rather than just trying to figure out how we'll make our next million off whatever bill we are going to pass next.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)As people with no critical thinking skills and only out to cut peoples's jobs, wages, benefits, etc.
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)should model more socially responsible behavior and philosophies that DON'T lead to cutting people's jobs, wages, benefits, etc. Nah. That would piss off the God of Profit and the Invisible Hand of the Market the twin Dieties of capitalism.
When I was in school in the early 70s, the newly built business school building from the top looked like a toilet. EXACTLY like the top view of a toilet. My friends and myself thought this was appropriate and 40 years later, nothing has changed my opinion.
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)....one must READ.
Through this mechanism, one learns not just What Happened in the external World,
but the internal thoughts, feelings, suspicions, frailties, and fears of those who made things happen.
If your life goal is to Make Money,
then English, History, Philosophy are NOT for you.
If your goal is to become Human,
then the above is the perfect path.