I agree! Sometimes, things need to be put into perspective!

Why should I be wrong and you right. A lot of this is subjective. I do however agree with the Kelsey Grammer thing.

(I still think some of Miller's stand-up from 20 or so years ago is funny shit, but that's not just my opinion.)
I was just trying (and probably failing) to make a broader point.

I have been trying to figure out for years what happened to him. I know I remember him being pretty funny - I just couldn't figure out when he got so righty. I enjoyed some of the uncomfortable moments on Monday Night Football when his co-hosts didn't have a clue WTF he was talking about. And weren't his Weekend Updates on SNL pretty good? I am sure I laughed at some of that.

Oh well, you are pretty much spot-on in your OP. Except for Papa Johns. Yuck. lol. Seriously, I stopped eating their shit many, many years ago before I even knew who the owner was, much less what his shitty politics were.

the right, though more as a Libertarian than as a typical Republican RW. He was always a fiscally right wing/socially liberal type. I think that 9/11 also brought out his RW hawkishness (and his anti-Muslim bigotry), which had probably been fairly dormant prior to 9/11.

My own take on what really happened, though, is that in middle age career had slowed down to the point that he was getting a bit desperate. Then, when the RW heard him spout off his anti-Muslim—and especially his anti Iraq— stuff after 9/11, they started calling and offering him lucrative gigs and lots of TV exposure, so he hopped on to ride that gravy train as far as it would take him.

Of course, that meant anynon-RW offers he might have gotten dried up completely, so with the RW and FOX his only options for earning enough money, he had to get more and more shrill and extreme, because on the right, that is exactly what is required.

That’s why Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, and Bill O’Reilley have gone even further off the rails than they were to begin with (and they were pretty extreme to begin with!). Feeding the rabid RW audience requires more and more extreme and outrageous commentary, and anyone who fails to provide the red and redder meat they clamor for quickly drops by the wayside.

Like Rick Overton - now there is a funny dude. And a liberal to boot.

I don't even recall a HINT from back then of what he was to become

He's very literary, so often I'd miss a reference cuz I hadn't read the book. On his HBO show, he did those rants that some had merit. He did an excellent rant against racism & ended it with this jewel:

"It's stupid to hate someone for the color of their skin, when if you take five minutes & really talk to them, you'll find plenty of valid reasons to hate them."

Being a bit of a misanthrope, that resonated with me.

That was many, many years ago! I have no idea what Miller has said in regards to Prez O & if he would still stand by that statement.

Swing Vote and The Pentagon Wars.

I don't understand how he could be in those movies and still be a nutjob right winger.

There is always someone who thinks they are more purer.

In the final analysis, you have to be true to what you believe, not what others think you should be.

I like to think for myself and sometimes I don't always agree with the other democrats on the website.

not always agree with each other but perhaps learn from each other or solidify our own opinions.

Open bar is to your left, buffet is to your right, we have karaoke til 8 and a DJ til 2am.

This is where the cool kids hang out.

It's just that you are far more articulate than most people in our common society. It is far, far easier for a lazy tongue to say "suck" than it is for said tongue, connected to a brain (possibly), to do the mental work necessary to adequately express itself.

This is the age of the "tweet" where people express themselves in 28 characters, or less, because (happily for them) that is what they are restricted to. Frankly, I am insulted when I write a concise and descriptive email that it's recipient feels only deserves a tweeted response. I don't really give rodent's posterior if they are stuck in a stall in the restroom, and not at their desk top. Their response can wait!

Dennis Miller was pretty funny when he was slim and his hair was brown, but he latched onto conservatism just as he got rich enough to notice that his taxes were high, and you're absolutely right about 9/11 scaring the shit out of him. An egotistical coward, nothing unusual in the entertainment industry there.

You'll have to show me something that walmart sells that isn't cheap shit as I've never seen it. As my great grandmother taught me, cheap is always too expensive.

Koch industries, I have no idea, if every American lived like I do, they would be managing a fast food joint because it just don't use that much of the crap they peddle.

Faux News. I don't watch TV and am far better for it.

But the biggest fallacy you've written here is that you can't be a good Democrat because of your opinions. The whole party is run by conservatives, that 30 years ago would have been running the republican party and are working only for their own benefit. Therefore the only requirement is to check that box when you register, and to vote.

So you're a good Democrat in my book.

Pragmatic Progressives have been demonized on this site in the past.

As a Pragmatic Progressive, I could give you some personal stories.

(And trust me, I feel your pain.)

It is so easy to jump on a bandwagon and proclaim how you never liked this or that, just because it is the popular thing at the time. I have never tried Papa John's, so I cannot weigh in. But at times I have like Kelsey Grammer and Dennis Miller's old SLN stuff and loved Clint Eastwood. I know that Walmart sells the same things that I find elsewhere, so it is not all cheap crap.

I also will avoid spending my money to support people and companies that are what I consider enemies of the people. But that doesn't always mean that the things I will not support are all trash.

You all probably a better Democrat than most, since you are willing to avoid companies with products you would be willing to purchase. It is easy to boycott a company that you have never used anyways, isn't it?

I agree with most of what you've said. (Never liked Papa John's, though).

because I can't remember Dennis miller ever being funny. I do remember being happy when ABC chose him as a color commentator for Monday night football because the other option was rush limbaugh. After the first game I was sick of his snide pseudo intellectual bullshit I began muting the TV and listening to the games on radio.

However Kelsey Grammer must be a good actor if he can convince viewers that a guy who looks like him is always with some hot woman.

Who I suppose might have told a successful joke once or twice — but I never heard 'em. And I do remember his pre-9/11 schtick and (for me) it always fell flat.

However, you still earn a "Bravo" from me for your quite sensible post.

At least that's what I've read. I think I've read it a few times. Who knows.

That would be helpful.

So you're no longer laboring under a misconception:

That graphic is sure to give me nightmares!

there is nothing better than breaking down tribalism.

/kudos

The rest I can more or less agree with.

Mostly kids or young adults or maybe adults of the uber-rural type.

When he was offered the Monday Night Football job (which he simply was a bad fit for), Rush Limbaugh railed and screamed that it was all part of the ABC/Disney conspiracy to inject "liberals" into football. It didn't matter whether Miller was a liberal or not, the perception of the far right was that he was because he had a highly acclaimed cable show. Limbaugh screamed because he wanted that job. But Miller got it, and it was a failure and ratings plummeted largely because of Rush telling his drooling audience to stop watching, and Miller was gone after a year. Of course, Rush did get his chance to broadcast football, and went six weeks before proving he can't shut up about race and was fired.

Dennis got smeared, and instead of beating them, joined them. Kissed the ring, and now, even though he still can't draw flies, FAUX Snooze loves him.

and the modern day Republican party will know that complete ideological purity is the way to irrelevance. It has a sad habit of not being in alignment with reality. There are people who are shitty Democrats out there (Zell Miller and Joe Liebermann I am talking to you) but just because you refuse to go along gung-ho with every single activist buzzword doesn't make you a bad Democrat. I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Just a couple of comments.

1. Sorry, Papa John's does suck. I can tell by your response that you're not from the tri-state area of Connecticut, New York and New Jersey, nor from Chicago or Boston or you'd know good pizza.

2. I like Kelsey Grammer as Sideshow Bob on "The Simpsons" and "Frazier was pretty good, too. He may be a right-wing asshole, but I have to admit, there are a lot of right-wing asshole entertainers I enjoy, including: Clint Eastwood; Meatloaf; Montgomery Gentry; Lynyrd Skynyrd; Erroll Flynn; Frank Sinatra; Sammy Davis, Jr.; Charlie Daniels; and a few others.

3. You're right - Dennis Miller used to be hilarious. I loved him on SNL's "Weekend Update" and he got in some great zingers on Ronald Reagan and George Bush, Sr. in the day. I distinctly remember once he made a remark that he looked forward to the end of Reagan's 2nd term so he couldn't be re-elected.

But hey, I've caught shit from a lot of people who question my Democratic creds because: I'm opposed to any gun control beyond prohibiting the sale and ownership of weapons to minors, convicted criminals and the certifiably insane; and I think we need to do more to deter illegal immigration. As long as the wealthy have a labor force of illegal aliens they can use without paying a fair minimum wage, deny workman's comp and work in unsafe conditions, it drives down the wages and benefits of the rest of us.

There's also the issue of sexual exploitation and human trafficking that goes along with illegal immigration that the media hardly ever touches on in this country.

So welcome aboard. Despite the views of a very small minority, the Democratic Party is a big tent and proud of it.

that pizza crust is made of recycled cardboard and the sauce is Commercial grade ketchup. Oh and Kelsey Grammar is a bad man--when you take a newborn infant to the Playboy mansion because you can't find a "babysitter" you ain't striving to be father of the year. Dennis Miller was only funny when he was doing other peoples material. And the part about Fox--yeah you Nailed it!

it is pretty obvious that you think you are a GREAT Democrat.

has always sucked and has never been funny.

in some people's eyes.
Sometimes it seems you have to go along with the "DU orthodoxy" to get along.
You should worship the latest hero and be outraged by the latest outrage.

Don't worry though. Many times the latest hero becomes a goat before long.

I've had similar problems in the past, but I try not to let this stuff get to me, either.

is not whether or not I'm a good Democrat, but am I a good citizen?

Liberal ideals and objectives are what our culture needs right now. In a hundred years that might not be the case, but they can worry about that when the time comes. Right now, being a good citizen means working to reduce our consumption of natural resources, equitable distribution of those resources, and dignity and personal development for all. Republicans aren't tooled up to do that.

If you're a good citizen, you're probably a good Democrat.

Aah, fuck it, who am I kidding? Busted again.

Everyone has their own tastes..but i can honestly say papa johns is my least liked chain pizza brand.. people in my area thought so too apparently because their store only lasted 6 months here... lol
i dont have a problem with kelsey grammers acting.. its his personal life thats crappy, but hey.. thats really none of my business i guess eh ?
dennis miller... you know.. DURING the late 80s, i thought his stuff was funny too..but looking back at it now and re-watching alot of it (thank you utube and the interwebz), just not as funny as i thought. its like having a favorite show from when you were little and watching it again as an adult and realising it just doesnt have that same magic
i dont mind what walmart sales, again... their business.. but they do have an un-fair advantage given their buying power.. but, you could say thats also their business because theyve earned it by winning in a capitalist economy :p

It has nothing to do with his politics. Clint Eastwood is an excellent actor even if he is a RW asshole.

Dennis Miller never interested me so can't give an opinion about his schtick.

Papa John's truly does suck unless you like sauce with so much sugar that a medium pizza can bring on a diabetic coma. Lived in NJ long enough to try REAL pizza.

Worked for Walmart and know how they treat their workers so admittedly I am biased when I say they blow.

Georgia Pacific (a Koch company) puts out good paper products.

There is nothing that can redeem Fox News EVER.

I don't think Mitt Romney would have started WW3 if he had won(not that he wouldn't have been awful anyway, of course).
I don't hate Papa John's pizza, either. Some of their stuff is actually decent.
I do believe that climate change is a serious problem that should be dealt with ASAP, but I don't think it could lead(at least not in and of itself) to human extinction, nor are the worst-case scenarios necessarily inevitable.
Kelsey Grammer and Mel Gibson used to be pretty good actors back in the day, they've just fallen off the wagon, that's all.
There's plenty of decent moderate conservatives out there. They're just in the dark, that's all.

So yeah, some of these opinions might make a few people question whether or not I'm really a Democrat. But I'm not that worried because as far as I know, most people who've come across me do seem to respect me for the good guy, and good Democrat, for that matter, that I am. And TBH, I think you're a fine fellow yourself. As others have said, try not to let this stuff get to ya.

(P.S. I got a story or two to tell, if anyone wants to hear me talk.)

Never agree that mass-produced mediocrity is the standard. Compared to pizza you can get in NYC or New Jersey or Chicago, Papa John's sucks ass. It's a cheaply-produced product designed to make dollars for the owner at minimum cost. The benchmark is the real thing, not the cheap imitation, because when you choose the best of the crap, you are still choosing crap.

that responses like your's were inevitable. To be clear, I've had pizzas in New York and in New Haven, and they have all blown Papa John's out of the water. It's not even the same food. That's why I added the qualifier "for a chain store pizza" in the OP. I didn't call Papa John's "the standard". I didn't even call it edible. But thanks for playing.

You see, it all depends on the time.. Old Democrsts tend to be more liberal and partisan because they have seen it all. Some even have memories of JFK, RFK and MLK assassinations and lived through the civil right movement. The new Dems have not, are less partisAn and might ecen consider blue Dems as great Dems.. Some even think Dennis Miller is funny while Dennis take punches at us.

I am a young DEM, but extremely liberal, partisan and support FDR platform. For me, there's no middle of the road.

I defend my party and believes with tooth and nails. I have read my history. I spprectiate what the party have done for us women.

I admire your passion, but it's probably not a great move to lecture a 61 year old who worked for the Bobby Kennedy campaign while in high school, and then wound up doing a tour in the A Shau Valley as a combat infantryman. I cast my vote for McGovern not long after after my discharge from Walter Reed AMC, and subsequently, the US Army. Since then I have proudly voted for Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, Michael Dukakis, Bill Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry, and Barack Obama.
How long have I been a Dem? Longer than you have been alive.

You. I believe it was a fair question since iam New and your op and content said clearly you were not a good DEM. I know many ppl who are your age and older,experienced the civil rights and are very partisan, don't believe anything a right Wing has to say and despite my youth and "probably "naïveté" I somehow felt more related to them and their passion than what you described yours to be. However, I don't know you, all I can do is base my opinions on what you write.

Apologies if I offended you.

I'm like you in many ways, except for Dennis Miller. He's always been an outspoken right wing asshole. He just moved further right in patriotic serving fear after 9/11.

Hell, I'll be back to bashing Obama in 45 to 60 days anyway for being the middle of the road (which is borderline extreme right in my eyes) Democrat that he proved himself to be during the last 4 years.

I HOPE to be proven wrong, I really do.

I think we'll know before the inauguration though.

Just honest. I loved Kelsey on Cheers, I have laughed my ass off with Dennis Miller, too, before he lost his mind. I still think he's cute. I sometimes watch Fox News just for shits and giggles.

Never had Papa Johns Pizza. Kelsey grammar is a rich jerkoff, but without DU I would never have known or cared. Dennis miller has a crass humor, but yeah, he got the pee scared out of him and went running to big pappa R.

Walmart product is utter crap. I stopped shopping there before I became politically aware and cared about worker treatment and unions and whatnot. I am sure their cheap soda is the same as cheap soda anywhere, but the clothing and other consumer goods are of poorer than usual quality, even for our modern throw away era. There may be some exceptions, but they do NOT provide passable value at a reasonable price. The anti worker anti union, killing American jobs and stealing tax dollars to support profits part just cemented in that not only wouldn't I go shopping there for important things, I also refuse to shop there for convenience.

Koch brothers: agree. Cant speak to the quality of their product, but I will avoid it when i am aware of it due to the use my money would eventually go to.

And yeah, Fox sucks. Propaganda and hate all the way. No redeeming quality.

I'm not seeing it.

I loved the part about Fox News or as I shall forevermore call them, Bullshit Mountain (thanks Jon Stewart). Everyone has to draw the line somewhere, right?

Last edited Sat Nov 24, 2012, 04:00 PM - Edit history (1)

IMO, you have bad taste, but that has nothing to do with politics.

lol

because you don't smoke

the same cigarettes as me.

But I can't get no satisfaction.

level comedian, you opinion on an actor, or your non-delusional acknowledgment that Walmart in many instances sells the exact same product as other stores and therefore the quality will vary are of weight at all.

Essentially, these conversations are about personalities (no, not the quality of a product) and avoid policies. A significant section of the party avoids policy because in my opinion they don't care much about what and why or they do care and never want the real score discussed to much and welcome the distractions about who is a poopy head rather than have folks with actual sense turn on them and the politicians they promote.

Actually, the nice thing about being a democrat is that nuance and disagreement are allowed. We appreciate the truth more than just getting our way. That's a good thing.

Papa John's was actually my favorite of the chain pizzas, but I haven't ordered it in several months due to his comments. I LOVED Frazier and think Kelsey Grammer is actually hilarious, even if he is an asshole. I used to like Dennis Miller, before he went right wing. I rarely shop at WalMart, but some of their stuff is good. I just won't buy it anymore on principle. As for Koch... there are just too many companies for me to remember which is which when I am shopping, but I try to avoid them... again, on principle, not because the products are bad.

But yes, Faux News REALLY DOES SUCK!!!

Enough of their wares are such incredible garbage that it's enough to dismiss the whole store.

I also happen to think Mel Gibson is a good actor and a hell of a director.