General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOMG did you notice this "coincidence?"
BEWARE THE IDES OF MARCH!
Coincidence????????????????????????????????
March 15, 44 BCE
Julius Caesar is assassinated. The final blow is from his closest ally Brute. And the famous line "Y Tu Brute?"
March 15, 2024
Mike Pence, Trump's loyal vice president, stabs him in the back and publicly refuses to endorse him for president
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/pence-says-wont-endorse-trumps-presidential-bid-rcna143658
brooklynite
(95,400 posts)Pence's refusal to endorse Trump will have not any consequential impact on his Presidential prospects.
rampartc
(5,504 posts)caligula made his horse a senator , trump did the same for j d vance.
caesar was a danger to the republic. their 'constitution" was inadequate to defend the republic.
each senator took one stab, each too shallow to kill but cumulatively enough for exsanguination. no senator could be tried for caesar's murder. the republic was doomed anyway, but they tried.
Maeve
(42,380 posts)garybeck
(9,950 posts)It is just to say I would not be surprised if pence chose that day on purpose
garybeck
(9,950 posts)Pence refusing to endorse Trump is a BFD
https://www.rawstory.com/amp/pence-refusing-to-endorse-trump-is-a-bfd-2667545466
brooklynite
(95,400 posts)Trump is seen as a traitor on the right for not supporting Trump in overturning the 2020 election.
garybeck
(9,950 posts)No American vice president has ever said that his former boss is unfit to serve. It is the most devastating possible observation from the most credible source in existence. Pences refusal to endorse Trump should be part of the context of every single story about this campaign.
ProudMNDemocrat
(17,135 posts)He DEMANDS Loyalty while loyal to no one.
bucolic_frolic
(43,860 posts)Coincidence I think not.
Scrivener7
(51,193 posts)et tu
(1,094 posts)garybeck
(9,950 posts)figuratively, metaphorically stabbed
niyad
(114,553 posts)panfluteman
(2,096 posts)The substitution of the final -US with an -E was an inflection in Latin, one that was used when you are calling out someone. This -E inflection when calling out someone directly still survives in Romanian, a language that I speak, which, of all the Latin-based romance languages, is grammatically closest to Latin. For example, ION is the Romanian equivalent of John in English. If you are calling out to your friend ION in Romanian, you say, IOANE!
And so, on the Ides of March, The victim, Julius Caesar, in a state of surprise and distress, was calling out his supposed ally, who unexpectedly turned into one of his assassins, in horror and dismay, and the final -E inflection modification of his name, BRUTUS, denotes his surprise, horror and distress. ET TU, BRUTE? Means, "And you, Brutus?" in Latin, with TU being the familiar form of you, as it is in Spanish, another Latin-based romance language; "tu" is also the familiar form of "you" in Romanian as well.
By the way, in ancient Rome, the middle of each month, or the fifteenth day, was called the IDES of the month - so for example, the 15th of April will be the IDES of APRIL, 15th of May the IDES of MAY, and so on... The first day of each month was called the CALENDS of the month, and this is where we get our word, CALENDAR! A calendar helps you know when the first day, or Calends, of each month comes.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,511 posts)though in most declensions, the vocative case is identical to the nominative (eg "iudex"="judge" ). But the masculine nouns of the 2nd declension (most of the words ending "-us" ) change to "-e", eg "dominus" and "domine" (="lord" ).
In Julius Caesar's time, "tu" was simply the 2nd person singular, and "vos" the plural - the familiar/formal distinction in Latin and Romance languages came later:
Brown and Gilman argued that the choice of form is governed by either relationships of "power" or "solidarity", depending on the culture of the speakers, showing that "power" had been the dominant predictor of form in Europe until the 20th century. Thus, it was quite normal for a powerful person to use a T-form but expect a V-form in return. However, in the 20th century the dynamic shifted in favour of solidarity, so that people would use T-forms with those they knew, and V-forms in service encounters, with reciprocal usage being the norm in both cases.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%E2%80%93V_distinction
The Brown and Gilman 1958 paper, for anyone who can access JSTOR (free sign-up available): https://www.jstor.org/stable/42581740
IronLionZion
(45,829 posts)sop
(10,491 posts)Can't think of many other similarities between Donald Trump and Julius Caesar. Maybe Orange Julius?
LaMouffette
(2,048 posts)long to publicly denounce Trump. He was waiting to see which way the political winds would blow, which means his non-endorsement is a very good sign.
No longer endorsing Trump means that Pence has sniffed the political winds and now believes that Trump has no chance of winning in November. If it had looked to Pence like Trump had a strong chance of winning, I am certain he would have endorsed the soulless monster who tried to have him hanged.
DFW
(54,744 posts)If things had turned out differently for the Pence-man, and Trump had dropped out and endorsed him, Pence would have wrapped his arms tightly around Trump and sung the praises of his former fallen fearless leader.
pecosbob
(7,589 posts)No historical record of Caesar's last words.
DFW
(54,744 posts)I haven't seen that said universally, but it was in more than one scholarly reference on the subject.