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garybeck

(9,950 posts)
Fri Mar 22, 2024, 07:38 AM Mar 22

OMG did you notice this "coincidence?"

BEWARE THE IDES OF MARCH!

Coincidence????????????????????????????????

March 15, 44 BCE
Julius Caesar is assassinated. The final blow is from his closest ally Brute. And the famous line "Y Tu Brute?"


March 15, 2024
Mike Pence, Trump's loyal vice president, stabs him in the back and publicly refuses to endorse him for president

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/pence-says-wont-endorse-trumps-presidential-bid-rcna143658

24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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OMG did you notice this "coincidence?" (Original Post) garybeck Mar 22 OP
Coincidence being the relevant term. brooklynite Mar 22 #1
julius is not the caesar i'd be comparing to orange caligula. rampartc Mar 22 #4
Well, Vance is a horse's ass, so points for that!! Maeve Mar 22 #6
The point is not to compare t,ump to Caesar. garybeck Mar 23 #14
Pence refusing to endorse Trump is a BFD garybeck Mar 23 #15
Not in 2024 brooklynite Mar 23 #18
i disagree. read the article. garybeck Mar 23 #22
That is who this man is. ProudMNDemocrat Mar 22 #2
The Ides of Trump bucolic_frolic Mar 22 #3
No stabbing. Doesn't count. Scrivener7 Mar 22 #5
do overs plz et tu Mar 22 #7
. Scrivener7 Mar 22 #11
bwahahaha! garybeck Mar 23 #20
Was not paying attention when flyboy said that, so I thank you. niyad Mar 22 #8
The Ally / Assassin's Name Was Actually BRUTUS. panfluteman Mar 22 #9
The vocative in Latin isn't just for "surprise, horror and distress", it was used whenever you addressed someone muriel_volestrangler Mar 23 #19
I wouldn't endorse someone who wants to hang me either. IronLionZion Mar 22 #10
Trump does believe in "Caesarism," the idea that a strongman is needed to solve America's problems. sop Mar 22 #12
Pence is still just another self-serving, calculating Republican politician. It's no coincidence that he waited this LaMouffette Mar 22 #13
I quite agree DFW Mar 23 #24
Likely the invention of Shakespeare pecosbob Mar 23 #16
Plus I've read some historical texts that claim that informal conversations were still held in Greek DFW Mar 23 #23
lol... I like it. TY! Cha Mar 23 #17
But, he'll still vote for him lame54 Mar 23 #21

brooklynite

(95,400 posts)
1. Coincidence being the relevant term.
Fri Mar 22, 2024, 07:48 AM
Mar 22

Pence's refusal to endorse Trump will have not any consequential impact on his Presidential prospects.

rampartc

(5,504 posts)
4. julius is not the caesar i'd be comparing to orange caligula.
Fri Mar 22, 2024, 08:29 AM
Mar 22

caligula made his horse a senator , trump did the same for j d vance.

caesar was a danger to the republic. their 'constitution" was inadequate to defend the republic.

each senator took one stab, each too shallow to kill but cumulatively enough for exsanguination. no senator could be tried for caesar's murder. the republic was doomed anyway, but they tried.

garybeck

(9,950 posts)
14. The point is not to compare t,ump to Caesar.
Sat Mar 23, 2024, 01:05 AM
Mar 23

It is just to say I would not be surprised if pence chose that day on purpose

brooklynite

(95,400 posts)
18. Not in 2024
Sat Mar 23, 2024, 09:27 AM
Mar 23

Trump is seen as a traitor on the right for not supporting Trump in overturning the 2020 election.

garybeck

(9,950 posts)
22. i disagree. read the article.
Sat Mar 23, 2024, 06:24 PM
Mar 23

“No American vice president has ever said that his former boss is unfit to serve. It is the most devastating possible observation from the most credible source in existence. Pence’s refusal to endorse Trump should be part of the context of every single story about this campaign.”

panfluteman

(2,096 posts)
9. The Ally / Assassin's Name Was Actually BRUTUS.
Fri Mar 22, 2024, 08:58 AM
Mar 22

The substitution of the final -US with an -E was an inflection in Latin, one that was used when you are calling out someone. This -E inflection when calling out someone directly still survives in Romanian, a language that I speak, which, of all the Latin-based romance languages, is grammatically closest to Latin. For example, ION is the Romanian equivalent of John in English. If you are calling out to your friend ION in Romanian, you say, IOANE!

And so, on the Ides of March, The victim, Julius Caesar, in a state of surprise and distress, was calling out his supposed ally, who unexpectedly turned into one of his assassins, in horror and dismay, and the final -E inflection modification of his name, BRUTUS, denotes his surprise, horror and distress. ET TU, BRUTE? Means, "And you, Brutus?" in Latin, with TU being the familiar form of you, as it is in Spanish, another Latin-based romance language; "tu" is also the familiar form of "you" in Romanian as well.

By the way, in ancient Rome, the middle of each month, or the fifteenth day, was called the IDES of the month - so for example, the 15th of April will be the IDES of APRIL, 15th of May the IDES of MAY, and so on... The first day of each month was called the CALENDS of the month, and this is where we get our word, CALENDAR! A calendar helps you know when the first day, or Calends, of each month comes.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,511 posts)
19. The vocative in Latin isn't just for "surprise, horror and distress", it was used whenever you addressed someone
Sat Mar 23, 2024, 09:46 AM
Mar 23

though in most declensions, the vocative case is identical to the nominative (eg "iudex"="judge" ). But the masculine nouns of the 2nd declension (most of the words ending "-us" ) change to "-e", eg "dominus" and "domine" (="lord" ).

In Julius Caesar's time, "tu" was simply the 2nd person singular, and "vos" the plural - the familiar/formal distinction in Latin and Romance languages came later:

In classical Latin, tu was originally the singular, and vos the plural, with no distinction for honorific or familiar. According to Brown and Gilman, the Roman emperors began to be addressed as vos in the 4th century AD. They mention the possibility that this was because there were two emperors at that time (in Constantinople and Rome), but also mention that "plurality is a very old and ubiquitous metaphor for power." This usage was extended to other powerful figures, such as Pope Gregory I (590–604). However, Brown and Gilman note that it was only between the 12th and 14th centuries that the norms for the use of T- and V-forms crystallized. Less commonly, the use of the plural may be extended to other grammatical persons, such as the "royal we" (majestic plural) in English.

Brown and Gilman argued that the choice of form is governed by either relationships of "power" or "solidarity", depending on the culture of the speakers, showing that "power" had been the dominant predictor of form in Europe until the 20th century. Thus, it was quite normal for a powerful person to use a T-form but expect a V-form in return. However, in the 20th century the dynamic shifted in favour of solidarity, so that people would use T-forms with those they knew, and V-forms in service encounters, with reciprocal usage being the norm in both cases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%E2%80%93V_distinction

The Brown and Gilman 1958 paper, for anyone who can access JSTOR (free sign-up available): https://www.jstor.org/stable/42581740

sop

(10,491 posts)
12. Trump does believe in "Caesarism," the idea that a strongman is needed to solve America's problems.
Fri Mar 22, 2024, 10:12 AM
Mar 22

Can't think of many other similarities between Donald Trump and Julius Caesar. Maybe Orange Julius?

LaMouffette

(2,048 posts)
13. Pence is still just another self-serving, calculating Republican politician. It's no coincidence that he waited this
Fri Mar 22, 2024, 10:14 AM
Mar 22

long to publicly denounce Trump. He was waiting to see which way the political winds would blow, which means his non-endorsement is a very good sign.

No longer endorsing Trump means that Pence has sniffed the political winds and now believes that Trump has no chance of winning in November. If it had looked to Pence like Trump had a strong chance of winning, I am certain he would have endorsed the soulless monster who tried to have him hanged.

DFW

(54,744 posts)
24. I quite agree
Sat Mar 23, 2024, 06:35 PM
Mar 23

If things had turned out differently for the Pence-man, and Trump had dropped out and endorsed him, Pence would have wrapped his arms tightly around Trump and sung the praises of his former fallen fearless leader.

DFW

(54,744 posts)
23. Plus I've read some historical texts that claim that informal conversations were still held in Greek
Sat Mar 23, 2024, 06:31 PM
Mar 23

I haven't seen that said universally, but it was in more than one scholarly reference on the subject.

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