Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

dutch777

(3,019 posts)
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 02:43 PM Mar 28

Property insurance affordability crisis-- where does it end?

I just read an article that mentioned that Suze Orman, the finance guru, stated that she has a 2100 square foot condo on the beach somewhere in Florida. Her latest quote for property insurance was like $24,000 a year. The article was not completely explicit but I assume this is just her interior walls and finishes and contents. The rest of that assumption is the the condo association also has property insurance on the common building components-- basic structure, exterior envelope including windows, roof and skin and the site. Ms. Orman noted she thought that number was crazy and given recent trends in FL, if she were to file a claim the insurer would likely deny it. Being in a financial condition to do so, she was choosing to self insure.

So the question is, given FL and CA and other areas where repetitive property risks exist are having more and more insurers flee the markets or raise rates astronomically, where does this logically go? Assuming more rich folks opt to self insure, the insurance payment pool shrinks. With reports that those on the other end of the income spectrum also are opting out at their own risk, the payment pools that make insurance work shrink even more. Given mortgage lenders require property insurance coverage for homes they lend on, makes some very desirable but risky locales only for the rich. Seems like this is going to end badly for many who will find themselves in property they cannot afford to protect with insurance but maybe also can't sell at original value because buyers will be aware of the insurance trap present. And communities after a disaster could be left with heavily damaged properties that the owner will simply walk away from as they cannot afford repairs.

9 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

RSherman

(576 posts)
1. I just heard an interview on Fresh Air about FAIR insurance
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 02:54 PM
Mar 28

It basically encourages people to move to bad areas that are prone to storms, hurricanes, wildfires, drought because those states don't want to lose population. They want people to keep coming.

"And so Florida devised a state-run insurance plan that would make insurance available to any homeowner who wanted to buy it through the state. And eventually they promised to discount that plan so that it would actually be cheaper than what the free market insurance was providing. Systems for insurance like that have now been replicated in about 30 states across the country. They're called FAIR plans - for fair access to insurance - and it has essentially made it less expensive for Americans to move into places that are threatened by hurricanes, threatened by wind damage, threatened by flooding. In some cases, though, you mentioned, flooding is now covered by the federal government, another form of that subsidy."

https://www.npr.org/2024/03/26/1239904742/how-climate-driven-migration-could-change-the-face-of-the-u-s

Another thought about climate migration: Some people do not want people coming here from other climate-ravaged countries. Yet, what will happen when people from AZ, CA, the Gulf Coast, FL want to move back up north after their water is gone, or they've overbuilt and can no longer support the infrastructure? Should states that have handled their resources well "build a wall"?

flamingdem

(39,313 posts)
4. CItizens Insurance, the state back FL insurance company is being investigated by congress
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 03:01 PM
Mar 28

DeSantis said they're insolvent. Basically they're relying on the feds for a bailout if and when.

Sen. Whitehouse is questioning them.

dutch777

(3,019 posts)
5. It could lead to a lot of unanticipated migration. The FL insurance example last I read though is proving insolvent.
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 03:01 PM
Mar 28

While not as quick to raise rates as private insurance, it still has to cover claims that are ever increasing in cost. And unless the state subsidizes the costs, rate increases still happen at about the market rate as replacing a roof costs the same whether you are the state insurance or private. Not many states in a financial position to do that although to your point, if they start losing too many taxpayers, that doesn't pencil either.

cachukis

(2,242 posts)
2. I am waiting on a fire sale on a small bungalow
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 02:55 PM
Mar 28

600 hundred feet off the beach for $40 grand. I'll rent my home in town and live wary of hurricanes. If I get hit, we'll see if it is salvageable. If not, back to town.

brewens

(13,589 posts)
3. We won't have long to wait for a partial answer I'm afraid. The next big one to hit Florida might wipe
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 02:55 PM
Mar 28

enough people out to be an even bigger disaster. County on them to have their hands out, especially wealthy people.

dutch777

(3,019 posts)
6. Wonder when the west coast insurers will realize that carrying earthquake insurance will sooner or later bankrupt them.
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 03:10 PM
Mar 28

I lived in Seattle for many years. The info about the big subduction zone earthquake probability hadn't come out yet but we decided to get an earthquake rider for our homeowners insurance. 30 years ago it added $500 to our annual cost and was subject to just the basic deductible of a few thousand $$$. A few years later they added that earthquake had $20,000 deductible but still stayed affordable. When the news about the subduction zone risk came out, coverage for earthquake went thru the roof, deductible increased again and we were told if we didn't already have the coverage they wouldn't sell it to us.

NickB79

(19,246 posts)
7. You aren't going to like the answer
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 03:22 PM
Mar 28

What will happen is that more insurance companies will pull out as climate change escalates. Eventually a tipping point will be reached and a real estate crisis larger than any we've ever seen will occur. When the realization that large parts of the planet will be unliveable, not just in the far future but in a matter of decades, finally clicks in the minds of the general population, there will be a population exodus from these areas, and trillions of dollars in land, houses, and commercial property will be essentially worthless. The smart ones will sell early, and the dumb ones will be left broke, holding mortgages worth pennies on the dollar. Seaside neighborhoods once worth millions will become slums, and inland areas will gentrify.

And there won't be a government program large enough to stop it. Even a half-hearted attempt would bankrupt most nations, because the scale of the climate change disaster is unprecedented in human history. We've pushed the planet's climate too far, and it's too late to prevent catastrophe.

RSherman

(576 posts)
8. This is my concern
Thu Mar 28, 2024, 03:32 PM
Mar 28

Selfishly, I am very worried about the exact scenarios in your post. I live in Northern NY. Very few wildfires, hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes....
I have an artesian well with a constant run off. I live out in the country and we are not overcrowded. There is definitely going to be reverse migration.

dutch777

(3,019 posts)
9. There will certainly be a shift to less vulnerable locales. Some may be able to "armor' themselves but will take time.
Fri Mar 29, 2024, 07:41 PM
Mar 29

I watch the insurers as the canaries in this particular coal mine. And as you note, few if any governments can fund a real fix, maybe put up a dike for a bit, but I too believe those will be band aids at best.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Property insurance afford...