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Model35mech

(1,635 posts)
Wed Apr 3, 2024, 10:13 AM Apr 3

Haaretz: Aid Workers Killed Because 'IDF Officers on the Ground Do What They Want'

Haaretz: Aid Workers Killed Because 'IDF Officers on the Ground Do What They Want'


The army's killing of seven aid workers in the Gaza Strip on Monday night stemmed from poor discipline among field commanders, not a lack of coordination between the army and aid organizations, army sources said on Tuesday.

A source in the intelligence branch said the command "knows exactly what the cause of the attack was – in Gaza, everyone does as he pleases.

Army regulations say that final approval for any action against sensitive targets like aid organizations must be given by senior officers – the division commander, the head of the command or even the chief of staff. But in Gaza, the source said, "every commander sets the rules for himself" and gives his own interpretation of the rules of engagement


What I wrote yesterday at 2:16 PM CDT:

What it can be considered is reckless and delinquent military action that failed to observe orders put in place.

And THAT suggest that elements of the IDF have gone rogue and are no longer truly controlled by the Israeli government.

Either Israel arrests and confines all the perp's or it is a willing partner to these actions.

Legitimate war doesn't create war crimes intentionally under flimsy excuses such as "poor" communication. The IDF is out of control.
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obamanut2012

(26,217 posts)
1. I have read before about the lack of professionalism amongst IDF soldiers
Wed Apr 3, 2024, 10:17 AM
Apr 3

It wasn't a propo article, but I was like, who knows. After reading this and some other things, I believe it.

Model35mech

(1,635 posts)
2. I suspect it's "fear". Israeli anti-terrorist experts wrote the manuals for US cops
Wed Apr 3, 2024, 10:28 AM
Apr 3

and that's where the "The police had reasonable fear" excuse for killing unarmed civilians came from

I'm not sure this is a matter of lack of professionalism. Rather, I suspect battalion, company and platoon commanders were told that they could use their personal discretion to protect their units. All they need to justify that is flimsy evidence to sustain a reasonable "fear" that someone could hurt their unit(s).

David__77

(23,689 posts)
3. I doubt they will even reprimand anyone or release concrete information.
Wed Apr 3, 2024, 10:29 AM
Apr 3

I don’t know I’d say it is out of control. It seems consistent with the statements of important leaders to take actions to create unlivable conditions.

Model35mech

(1,635 posts)
5. Netanyahu's government investigating Netanyahus' military castes shade
Wed Apr 3, 2024, 10:49 AM
Apr 3

Colin Powell was the person originally charged with investigating My Lai. But the results of his investigation were mostly cover-the-ass of the Army. His "yessiring" in doing that really helped put him on a fast track to wearing stars.

Even if a person tries to say lack of discipline is a type of morale problem in the ranks, it's the job of Battalion and Company commanders to signal that problem to Brigade and division HQ while going about fixing those morale problems.

moniss

(4,274 posts)
6. In actuality this
Wed Apr 3, 2024, 11:46 AM
Apr 3

"result" is not new on the part of the IDF. Even before this and all the way back through times prior to 1948 there were actions that would be taken that would be "outside the bounds" so to speak and the official stance would be it was not "condoned", "it was not authorized" etc. and these actions would be carried out by various "off-shoots" of Israeli military and intelligence. So it is actually a part of strategy to have these "intimidation" events etc. The other sides in this region have done similar things as well just not quite as organized and effective.

At various times during attacks on villages by either party/multiple parties they would kill women and children but then others would come in to "clean up" the scene so that not so many bodies were found or the real condition of the bodies left to reveal atrocities to any later investigators. Then when the "official" investigators come they find far fewer dead than claimed by the other side so they can call each other liars.

The historical manner of conduct and what are "acceptable" occurrences for conflicts between parties in this region is not what the public in the West would be used to. The parties in the Middle East know, however, what the West objects to and they know how to portray things in order to have "plausible deniability" for something being a sanctioned act or not.

Oneironaut

(5,558 posts)
8. The IDF kind of just murders people when they feel like it.
Wed Apr 3, 2024, 11:52 AM
Apr 3

Hamas is evil, but, the IDF suffers from a severe lack of ROE/discipline, from the looks of it. There are many videos of them beating the crap out of journalists and stuff like that.

PCIntern

(25,705 posts)
9. True...
Wed Apr 3, 2024, 12:03 PM
Apr 3

Perhaps because one of the cousins of the offending IDF soldier was raped by Hamas and then sexually mutilated and left to die in horrendous pain. I’m not excusing this kind of thing but you know….this is what happens in war. Tragic. For everyone.

Oneironaut

(5,558 posts)
10. Oh I totally agree. It's wrong and common.
Wed Apr 3, 2024, 12:14 PM
Apr 3

US soldiers did it too. There needs to be severe consequences, because war turns people into monsters.

Model35mech

(1,635 posts)
12. Actually no this isn't what's accepted to happen in war
Wed Apr 3, 2024, 01:11 PM
Apr 3

Neither are the stories of IDF snipers shooting children.

What happens is partisans in the various sides rationalize their sides behavior. Often in the form of an worthy "whoopsie".

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