Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Kid Berwyn

(14,914 posts)
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 08:50 AM Apr 16

Donald Greeting the Jury Pool



In this courtroom sketch, former President Donald Trump smiles to the jury pool as he is introduced to them at the beginning of his trial over charges that he falsified business records to conceal money paid to silence porn star Stormy Daniels in 2016, in Manhattan state court in New York, Monday, on April 15, 2024.Jane Rosenberg / Pool via AP

Source: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-hush-money-trial-jury-selection-day-2-rcna147940

Somehow the leer doesn't match its circumstances.
56 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Donald Greeting the Jury Pool (Original Post) Kid Berwyn Apr 16 OP
TFG and appropriate behavior have never, ever even appeared together in the same room. marble falls Apr 16 #1
He has never been held to account, including by his former employer NBC. Kid Berwyn Apr 16 #5
lol "deep in thought" TxGuitar Apr 16 #9
Here's the actual picture: LuckyCharms Apr 16 #2
You have captured the orange reptilian essence of the defendant. Kid Berwyn Apr 16 #10
Ha!! Almost did a spit take! oregonjen Apr 16 #44
Howdidcha Conjuay Apr 16 #49
By god that is hellish scary/creepy. Irish_Dem Apr 16 #3
The forced smarm represents the demented fascist nightmare he passes for a monde interieur. Kid Berwyn Apr 16 #11
And he probably thought PatSeg Apr 16 #18
Narcissists usually do not understand how they come across. Irish_Dem Apr 16 #20
True PatSeg Apr 16 #24
Yes I think he knows the truth, deep down. Irish_Dem Apr 16 #25
Oh yes, I have no doubt PatSeg Apr 16 #38
From what I understand: Irish_Dem Apr 16 #39
Yes, I remember reading in Mary Trump's book PatSeg Apr 16 #41
Most of Trump's diagnoses are clear. Irish_Dem Apr 16 #42
Yes, he'd have to be observed without stimulants PatSeg Apr 16 #43
Yes. Irish_Dem Apr 16 #46
True, couldn't even recommend him for unskilled manual labor PatSeg Apr 16 #50
Yes a man who is clearly not employable. Irish_Dem Apr 16 #52
I can see that PatSeg Apr 16 #55
Yes. Irish_Dem Apr 16 #56
I don't see bipolar NanaCat Apr 16 #53
There are two kinds of bipolar disorders. Irish_Dem Apr 16 #54
Batman's - The Joker, is djt's twin brother. magicarpet Apr 16 #36
Every seat in every room he's in should have a barf bag under it. (GRAPHIC WARNING) Kid Berwyn Apr 16 #37
Guilty! Blue Owl Apr 16 #4
That was my first thought, too. Kid Berwyn Apr 16 #12
The jury should wait for the case to begin. jimfields33 Apr 16 #31
I'll bet he practiced that in the mirror. The evil smile. honest.abe Apr 16 #6
Looking at himself in the mirror must take up a good chunk of his waking hours. Kid Berwyn Apr 16 #13
He looks like Satan in that pic. bif Apr 16 #16
And he never really sees what PatSeg Apr 16 #19
He's got that "I just made a poopie" look ya see from little kids right after a wicked lil dump. n/t CincyDem Apr 16 #7
And probably did, too. Meadowoak Apr 16 #8
Probably his greatest accomplishment. Kid Berwyn Apr 16 #14
If the jurors smelt it, and figured out who dealt it.... TheRickles Apr 16 #17
His eyes belie his grin. His real attitude, it's all in his eyes. ancianita Apr 16 #15
He's a freaking bdamomma Apr 16 #22
Windows Kid Berwyn Apr 16 #27
Ahhh ancianita Apr 16 #29
Abraham Lincoln said that a man is always responsible for the look in his eyes. LastDemocratInSC Apr 16 #28
Wise words. And as we know, TSF knows nothing about Lincoln or being responsible. ancianita Apr 16 #32
The artist gave the judge an interesting expression PatSeg Apr 16 #21
There really is. Kid Berwyn Apr 16 #33
Interesting take on the guard PatSeg Apr 16 #40
Looks like Henry Fonda... heckles65 Apr 16 #23
Kindred Spirits Kid Berwyn Apr 16 #30
Is it just me, or has court sketching gotten really bad? AZ8theist Apr 16 #26
It's the subject matter. Kid Berwyn Apr 16 #35
Funny, i noticed a sketch on TV the other day that was very colorful. IcyPeas Apr 16 #45
It's Trump. There's a heavy use of the sketch-medium (a greasy crayon? ) but it matches his aspect... Hekate Apr 16 #47
Yuck it up, Tootsie. Yuck it up. rubbersole Apr 16 #34
Creepy AF DET Apr 16 #48
A smile for the little people that Trump loves and works to serve. ;) Chainfire Apr 16 #51

Kid Berwyn

(14,914 posts)
5. He has never been held to account, including by his former employer NBC.
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 08:58 AM
Apr 16
From the article, always with a heaping helping of plausible deniability:

Trump's eyes were closed during part of Monday's proceedings when Merchan was reading the potential jurors his instructions — creating speculation about whether he was asleep or just deep in thought.

Kid Berwyn

(14,914 posts)
10. You have captured the orange reptilian essence of the defendant.
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 09:21 AM
Apr 16

As for the courtroom atmosphere...



...I almost can sense their immediate concerns.

Kid Berwyn

(14,914 posts)
11. The forced smarm represents the demented fascist nightmare he passes for a monde interieur.
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 09:26 AM
Apr 16


ETA: A self-satisfied hellscape, that really seeps out from every pore on his wug.

PatSeg

(47,515 posts)
18. And he probably thought
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 11:20 AM
Apr 16

that he looked pleasant and friendly. His lack of self-awareness is absolutely breathtaking.

With all the photos and videos of him out there, you'd think he would get a clue as to how clownish and ridiculous he looks.

Irish_Dem

(47,140 posts)
20. Narcissists usually do not understand how they come across.
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 11:24 AM
Apr 16

They believe they are so special and superior, others must automatically see it too.

PatSeg

(47,515 posts)
24. True
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 11:30 AM
Apr 16

And if he ever really faced who and what he really is, it would probably destroy him.

He has been living in his own fantasy world for far too long. Whenever the truth comes close to threatening him, he just creates a distraction. The most important person that he is trying to fool is Donald Trump.

Irish_Dem

(47,140 posts)
25. Yes I think he knows the truth, deep down.
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 11:32 AM
Apr 16

That is why all the criticism and ridicule hurts to much.

PatSeg

(47,515 posts)
38. Oh yes, I have no doubt
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 12:30 PM
Apr 16

It was probably drilled in to him as a child. I can imagine that he was called a disgrace, a loser, stupid, weak, disgusting, dishonest, etc. All you have to do is listen to the insults he throws about to hear the words that haunt him from his childhood.

I've noticed that he especially uses "loser" and "disgrace" a lot. What on earth did his parents do to him in his formative years? Or perhaps teachers and older siblings as well? I can hear a father or mother saying, "That is disgusting. You are a disgrace".

Irish_Dem

(47,140 posts)
39. From what I understand:
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 01:53 PM
Apr 16

Trump's mother was very ill most of the time and in and out of the hospital.
So an absent mother.

Father was a nasty SOP who put the older daughter in charge of the children.
So you have a child raising children. She cannot parent and supervise.

And a father who is nasty.

Maybe some staff who were totally indulgent, I am guessing on this one given
his entitlement issues.

I also suspect Trump might be bipolar.

He was doing drugs and cocaine as a young man.

And hooked up with Roy Cohn who taught Trump the finer points of being a white collar criminal.

PatSeg

(47,515 posts)
41. Yes, I remember reading in Mary Trump's book
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 02:30 PM
Apr 16

Last edited Tue Apr 16, 2024, 03:02 PM - Edit history (1)

about his mother being very ill after he was born and that he was rather abandoned. I can see that an older sister taking the place of a mother could be less than ideal. I'm sure she said and did things quite differently than their mother would have.

And definitely the father was a mean asshole who appeared to have been raised by another mean asshole. A lot of times, a good mother can compensate for a bad father, but being she was absent a lot, he was on his own.

I hadn't thought of bipolar, but actually that does make sense.

Irish_Dem

(47,140 posts)
42. Most of Trump's diagnoses are clear.
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 02:55 PM
Apr 16

I have been talking about them for some time.

He obviously has narcissistic and antisocial (sociopath) personality disorders.
I think he is borderline PD as well.

Then we have his long time drug abuse. Adderall and cocaine.
From the looks of the WH doctor's drug list, Trump was doing quite a few uppers and downers.

But I am still not sure about the bipolar. He has the symptoms of this disorder,
but with all his stimulant addictions it is hard to tell.

What we would have to do is get him detoxed and drug free for a couple of months
and see what he looks like then to make the correct dx.

PatSeg

(47,515 posts)
43. Yes, he'd have to be observed without stimulants
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 03:10 PM
Apr 16

What looks like a bipolar high could just be drugs. Of course, if he is bipolar, he could self-medicate whenever he goes into a depressive cycle, bringing about the frenetic highs. All the endless television watching is also an anti-depressant.

He is an undiagnosed, untreated psychological disaster. Who knows what would have happened if he'd gotten treatment when he was young.

Irish_Dem

(47,140 posts)
46. Yes.
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 03:29 PM
Apr 16

Yes exactly what looks like typical bipolar symptoms could be from the stimulant abuse.

And yes good point, that could be why he self medicates with uppers, he cannot handle
the depressive symptoms. And Trump is someone for sure who would love the manic highs.

Yes we can see his coping style of just vegging out in front of the TV and posting on twitter.
All that 2 am rage tweeting is classic bipolar.

Yes there is so much serious psychological disturbance with this guy.
And I have not even mentioned the cognitive impairment and dementia.
I think it is clear he has a serious learning disability and then brain damage from the
long time drug use.

If I were doing an evaluation for employment, I would say he is not employable for
any job requiring adherence to the law or social norms, responsibility or good judgement.
He should never handle money or be responsible for it.
And not allowed to make major decisions for others.

I would be hard pressed to recommend any job because on top of everything else,
he is lazy and work adverse.


PatSeg

(47,515 posts)
50. True, couldn't even recommend him for unskilled manual labor
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 04:35 PM
Apr 16

because he would be too unreliable and as you say, lazy.

Whether he is bipolar or not, all those insane highs would be a great escape from the realities of all his failures both personal and business. I've known people who do this sort of thing, a few of them I'm sure were bipolar. When their problems threaten to overwhelm them, they become hyper busy. That includes evading repressed trauma. "If I move fast enough and loud enough, it can't hurt me." They tend to think they are survivors, but it all catches up with them eventually.

He really ended up with quite the mixed bag. The dementia is apparently genetic. Who knows if the learning disability is hereditary or not, but based on his upbringing, I'd think it was environmental. As for brain damage, I wonder what a MRI of his brain would reveal.

And to think that tens of millions of Americans voted for THAT to be their president!

Irish_Dem

(47,140 posts)
52. Yes a man who is clearly not employable.
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 04:47 PM
Apr 16

For any job I can think of.

He would require close supervision for even a menial job
but he would be hostile and pose a threat to anyone who
tells him what to do or has control over him.

So even that is out.

Trump was very aggressive in the classroom, assaulting his teachers, as a child and that
was why he was sent to military school. So it makes me think
he was bipolar as a kid, and/or had learning disabilities, he just could
not cope with the academic setting.

And of course whatever trauma from home.

For someone to be so pathological and disturbed there are going to be
more than just one or two causal factors.

PatSeg

(47,515 posts)
55. I can see that
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 05:49 PM
Apr 16

Needing close supervision and being hostile to anyone telling him what to do.

Yes, I'm sure there was more than one causal factor. There is so much we do not know about his early home life and it is possible even he doesn't remember a lot of what happened.

Irish_Dem

(47,140 posts)
56. Yes.
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 06:34 PM
Apr 16

Trump's behavior is so much at the toddler level, I think his development was arrested
at a very young age. Something may have happened.

NanaCat

(1,177 posts)
53. I don't see bipolar
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 04:54 PM
Apr 16

When has he ever demonstrated the deep depression that bipolar exhibits in the down phase? I have two cousins who are bipolar, plus had a couple of bipolar classmates. The downs were really down with them, and much longer-lasting than the manic phases. In fact, it took years (sometimes decades) for all of them to get a bipolar diagnosis, because they presented as depressed so much more often than the manic phases.

Maybe he's somewhere on the hyperactive spectrum to explain his manic behaviours? That can mimic the mania side of bipolar. Or is it simply the high narcissists get when they feel large and in charge? That, too, can seem like mania.

Not sure, and not a therapist, but I've seen nothing of his behaviour to indicate he's ever suffered one of those deep dives of depression--something I have witnessed on numerous occasions from bipolars I know.

Irish_Dem

(47,140 posts)
54. There are two kinds of bipolar disorders.
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 05:20 PM
Apr 16

People with bipolar I disorder experience more severe highs (mania) and may not have depressive episodes. While people with bipolar II experience a less severe high (hypomania), their diagnosis includes depressive episodes.

So it is possible that Trump could have bipolar I.

Also we don't know the extent of any depressive episodes.
We don't have that information.

And when you have someone with depression using stimulants, it
covers up the depression.

I think Trump's manic behavior goes beyond hyperactivity.
And I think it goes beyond the narcissistic grandiosity.

As I said, while I am sure about the other dxs, I am not as sure about bipolar.

(I am a retired PhD trained mental health therapist with over 40 years clinical experience.
With a speciality in diagnosis and assessment of personality and intelligence.)

magicarpet

(14,155 posts)
36. Batman's - The Joker, is djt's twin brother.
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 11:53 AM
Apr 16

Look at that sickening sinister smile on his mug.

Where is my barf bag ?

Kid Berwyn

(14,914 posts)
37. Every seat in every room he's in should have a barf bag under it. (GRAPHIC WARNING)
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 12:00 PM
Apr 16
?quality=80

And there should be a giant fireproof barf bag over his wug so that people are still protected should the ones the public uses get too full.

Kid Berwyn

(14,914 posts)
13. Looking at himself in the mirror must take up a good chunk of his waking hours.
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 09:38 AM
Apr 16


I read he does his own hair every day and that he buys his bronzer by the case.

PatSeg

(47,515 posts)
19. And he never really sees what
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 11:22 AM
Apr 16

the rest of the world sees. He see himself the way he wishes he looked.

Kid Berwyn

(14,914 posts)
14. Probably his greatest accomplishment.
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 09:46 AM
Apr 16

Donald J Trump owes the Presidency of the United States to Vladimir Putin.

TheRickles

(2,067 posts)
17. If the jurors smelt it, and figured out who dealt it....
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 11:16 AM
Apr 16

I realize they haven't been chosen yet, but this situation is sure to be repeated when they are finally chosen. I don't think it will help the accused.

Kid Berwyn

(14,914 posts)
27. Windows
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 11:35 AM
Apr 16

"The evil eye is the fascinum, it is that which has the effect of arresting movement and, literally, of killing life. At the moment the subject stops, suspending his gesture, he is mortified. This anti-life, anti-movement function of the terminal point is the fascinum, and it is precisely one of the dimensions in which the power of the gaze is exercised directly." -- Jacques Lacan

ancianita

(36,106 posts)
29. Ahhh
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 11:41 AM
Apr 16

Lacan. Pretty brilliant. I've an old family friend whose sister is considered a premier Lacanian, gives related lectures at psych conferences. Feminists have referenced Lacan in their use of "the male gaze" for decades. Thanks for the quote!

Kid Berwyn

(14,914 posts)
33. There really is.
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 11:49 AM
Apr 16

The judge wears an intelligent expression. His open eyes are on the defendant. His posture shows energy and focus. All his body language is that of an alert jurist.

The guard also seems like an earnest human being. Perhaps he is surprised at the smaller-than-expected presence of the former pee-resident.

The dip, though, is portrayed precisely correct: a menacing traitor, criminal and fraud unaccustomed to following tradition or law.

PatSeg

(47,515 posts)
40. Interesting take on the guard
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 02:15 PM
Apr 16

I hadn't really noticed him, but I think you nailed it.

There is so much to read into the judge's expression. Definitely "alert" and a bit critical of the defendant and his antics.

The artist clearly sees the real Trump. I wonder what all was going on in his/her mind as he/she** drew that picture. His portrayal of Trump looks pretty evil.


Edit to add: ** It appears the artist is a woman.

heckles65

(549 posts)
23. Looks like Henry Fonda...
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 11:30 AM
Apr 16

Grinning at the McBain kid in "Once Upon A Time In The West." Just before he kills him.

IcyPeas

(21,893 posts)
45. Funny, i noticed a sketch on TV the other day that was very colorful.
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 03:19 PM
Apr 16

A lot of pinks and purples. Her name is Christine Cornell.

Also here's an article about 3 of the courtroom sketchers of the Trump trials.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/meet-3-veteran-sketch-artists-drawing-trumps-historic/story



Hekate

(90,719 posts)
47. It's Trump. There's a heavy use of the sketch-medium (a greasy crayon? ) but it matches his aspect...
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 03:39 PM
Apr 16

The greasiness of the bronzer, the artificiality of his hair-do, his ill-fitting but expensive suits, his posture… The artist has been very good at catching his exaggerated facial expressions. I don’t even know how he does that lizard-like V but it is a typical one for him.

I was taken aback at first by the heaviness of the line and color, but it fits.

DET

(1,323 posts)
48. Creepy AF
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 03:55 PM
Apr 16

I’m not a fan of the sketch artist, but she does manage to bring out Trump’s inner reptile.

Chainfire

(17,553 posts)
51. A smile for the little people that Trump loves and works to serve. ;)
Tue Apr 16, 2024, 04:42 PM
Apr 16

His blessing on the unwashed masses of people who aren't wealthy.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Donald Greeting the Jury ...