Unfortunately it’s not always the kind you like - or want.

Last edited Tue Apr 16, 2024, 10:25 PM - Edit history (1)

What if she were "pro-Israel" and her social media was about the annihilation of Palestine? Should they not let that person speak?

ETA: Hey, I already said I was mistaken, so I don't need a 10th person telling me that. I get that I was wrong and have already admitted that.

And is there any indication she was going to include that in her speech?

could land her in disciplinary trouble with the student code of conduct at my institution.

I don't know about USC's, but most higher learning institutions have anti-harassment policies that she would be in violation of.

I seemed to have missed that.

Please explain.

was the abolishment of the state, not the eradication of the people.
Of course, that is a controversial statement, just as those calling for
the abolishment of Palestinian areas In the West Bank and Gaza are
controversial.

Nothing I read said anything about the mass murder you are accusing
Asna Tabassum of supporting.

Since you claim that the phrase itself has no such connotation.

Look at historical maps. States dissolve; new states are formed.
Sometimes through war and sometimes not.

Definition of abolish: to put an end to something, such as an organization, rule, or custom.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/abolish

Mass murder: the act of killing a lot of people:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/mass-murder?q=Mass+murder

How would Israel be abolished without mass murder?

that Palestine would be a country for Muslims, Jews, and Christians
who would share the land and have equal rights in a non-sectarian nation.

This is a far better vision than what exists today and not a message of hate
and violence.

The meaning of dissolve: to end an official organization or a legal arrangement:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/dissolve

very similar to the meaning of abolish: to put an end to something, such as an organization, rule, or custom: as noted above.

Abolish and dissolve in this sense are pretty much synonymous.

And you somehow think that can be done bloodlessly?

It would be great if it were remotely possible, but sadly, it's not.

The UN created Israel, and I fully acknowledge the issues that created, but it is done, there's no un-ringing that bell.
And to say to the population of Israel that their country is going to be "dissolved" would cause all hell to break loose and rightly so.

The UN did not create the State of Israel.They only partitioned Palestine. Israel declared itself a state in violation of the UN plan. And the US and other countries recognized it.

Of course this vision is seemingly unrealistic because the Israelis would
not never accept large numbers of Muslims in their country. At the same
time the Israeli government and the right-wing settlers continue to steal
the land and homes of many Palestinians in the occupied territories in
violation of UN resolutions.

What?!?!?

And, they are not the ones talking about exterminating "from the river to the sea" the way the Palestinian protesters, Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Palestinian Authority are.

especially after Oct 7th. They have been terrorized by the police even
for posting support for their families in Gaza. They would be happy to live in a secular state.

How do you get from Hamas to Asna Tabassum?

The Palestinian Authority has recognized Israel. What evidence do yo
have the PA has called for the annihilation of Israel?

It is the settlers in the West Bank that want to claim all of Palestine as
Greater Israel and remove the Palestinians, one way or the other..

There is no way of getting around that logistic.

and in the world-at-large.

This is from Wikipedia for starters:

Depending on various points of view, a one-state solution to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict is presented as a situation in which Israel would ostensibly lose its character as a Jewish state and the Palestinians would fail to achieve their national independence within a two-state solution[10] or, alternatively, as the best, most just, and only way to resolve the Israeli–Palestinian conflict.
Support for a one-state solution is increasing[when?] as Palestinians, frustrated by lack of progress in negotiations aiming to establish the two-state solution, increasingly see the one-state solution as an alternative way forward.[11][12] In 2016, then-U.S. Vice President Joe Biden said that due to expanding settlements, an eventual "one-state reality" was the most likely outcome.[13]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-state_solutionhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-state_solution

Only the most fundamental militants want an Islamic state. Most Palestinians
just want to live with the dignity and full human rights, we all seek.

We may get a clue from the nearby footnotes {11, 12, 13} which range from 2011 to 2016.

A poll in December 2023 by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research based in Ramallah agrees most Palestinians favor a one state solution (i.e. the elimination of Israel) but as at least a plurality favor Hamas as the future governing body, I do not believe it would be a non-sectarian state where Muslim, Jew and Christian would be equal.

https://pcpsr.org/en/node/963

Think Martin Buber of I-Thou.

Albert Einstein and other leading American Zionists warned about Begin and Likud over 70 years ago in a letter to the NY Times, called them violent facists.

call for the annihilation of Jews. Sounds murderous to me.

the killing or injuring of Jews with money.

Do you have evidence that she supports the violence that Hamas practices?
Or do you think all Palestians are terrorists and murderers?

the Palestinian rallying cry to eliminate Israel, which is the same goal as Hamas and Hezbollah. I am not on those social media and have not read what she says there, only what the OP reports.

So, she has got what she wanted, to inflame people against Israel. That makes her controversial enough as a graduation speaker to create security concerns for the ceremony.

She could have been a voice for the welfare of Palestinians without being inflammatory. She made her choice and the University has consequently made their choice to ensure a peaceful graduation ceremony.

further misunderstandings and ridiculous support for terrorism. It's not that I don't care about the dire situation of Palestinians. I care very much about them.

I have no admiration for Netanyahu and the RWers who are aligned with him. I also believe that Israeli settlements in the West Bank are an illegal encroachment on Palestinian land and should never have been allowed.

But, like Biden, I have an ironclad support for Israel's right to nationhood and self defense. I also support the right of Palestinians to have their own independent state.

Disinformation that inflames anger, hatred, and terrorism prevents rational negotiations that would achieve peace for both sides and improve the lives of Palestinians in a nation of their own. So I have to question how much the anti Israel flamethrowers really care about Palestinians and how much of their rhetoric is based on anti-Semitism instead of genuine concern for Palestinian people.

I am appalled by the amount of anti-Semitism on the left that gets in the way of rational discussions for real solutions. Instead of looking into the political and cultural complexities in the region and the outside actors in other nations that are influencing and continuing the violence, I have seen and heard people on the left fall back on anti-Semitic tropes as old as the Middle Ages.

I agree with all of this so much!

without mass murder and unequal rights for residents?

Look at the body count and shift in land and natural resource control since 1948.

I am with POTUS Biden on a two state solution and what is necessary to make two states secure for residents.

Perceive Netanyahu and fellow travelers are trying to trap the USA into a regional Middle East War.

She called for the dissolution of Israel, which is fucked up, but it isn't a call for mass murder.

USC is private, and can do what they want.

Please explain.

How is this government action?

What you said. From FIRE:

USC is a private school.

Based on highest GPA in the graduating class.

It's not just highest GPA. There were 20 applicants.

How so?

Isc may be a private school. Someone else can verify that

I tend to fall on the side of it being justified but not if the ethnic-cleansing of an indigenous population is required to establish it.

What is not at question is that the concept of an ethno-state state is fundamentally anti-democratic. We would never accept America as a "white" homeland because it is at odds with liberal, enlightenment values, just as we wouldn't accept an Arab ethno-state in historical Palestine where Jews were forced out.

Arguing for a democratic state that treats Palestinian Arabs and Jews as equal under the law from the Jordan River to Gaza is not fundamentally anti-semitic. It is fundamentally democratic. You can disagree with it or call it naive and unworkable, but certainly calling "hateful" is inaccurate and ignores the ethic cleaning in 1948 and the last 75 years of Palestinian displacement, suffering and humiliation.

We must all come to terms with the fact that the status quo is not viable for either Jews or Palestinians.




>>Tabassum’s Instagram account links to a slideshow encouraging people to “learn about what’s happening in palestine, and how to help.” It calls for “one palestinian state,” which it says “would mean palestinian liberation, and the complete abolishment of the state of israel.”

Trojans for Israel said this “must be denounced as antisemitic bigotry.”

We have to deal with how the world is, not how we might wish it to be.

Israel exists, and to call for its annihilation is antisemitic bigotry.

Would you have made the same argument in 1860 at the beginning of the Civil War. How is calling for a democratic state in the Levant "anti-semitic"? How is considering Palestinians having dignity equal to that of Jews "anti-semitic"?

Where is the anti-semitism?

Which she did.

"complete abolishment of the state of Israel."

It's clear here she is talking about the state as currently constructed. A state which has had close to 3 million humans under cruel military rule for 75 years.

She doesn't mention Jews. She doesn't reduce Jews to cartoons or play into harmful stereotypes or call for the harming of anyone. She calls for the abolishment of an anti-democratic state and its occupation of lands. Period. Exactly like the abolishment of South African government. Exactly like the abolishment of the Confederacy. Exactly like the abolishment of colonial rule in India or Africa.

If you take the ethnicity and religion out, the morality becomes incredibly clear.

How about if someone calls for the complete abolishment of your home?

Are you saying that would not be a threat?

it wouldn’t matter if I felt threatened or not. There would be a clear and unequivocal moral imperative to end it and the system of which it was a part. Period.

Historical analogs are never perfect, but that doesn’t mean they are invalid. The status quo in the Levant is unviable because it is fundamentally immoral, inhumane and unjust. Nothing anyone says and no resolution the stupid clowns in Congress pass can change that fact.

I have a pretty low opinion of certain Congresspersons, but referring to any set of humans as animals is offensive to me. We're all offended when we hear Trump do it (at least I hope so). I suggest we endeavor to not lower ourselves to that level.

I really wish people could talk about certain issues without assailing anyone else's humanity. That's just gross. Surely it is - or SHOULD be - possible for people to hold opposing views without any of them being animals or calling each other that.

It would be intellectually dishonest and extremely offensive to both sides to compare them.

Any time someone defends a position using words like "unequivocal" and "crystal clear," I get twitchy. What that really means is "I am convinced that this is a completely lack and white issue, about which no decent person could possibly disagree," and that shuts the possibility of any real discussion right down.

When this happens in a thread about Israel and Palestine, it tells me that the person using those words is likely to be much less well-informed on the complexities and nuances of the situation than they think they are, which in turn tells me there's no point in pursuing the matter any further.

This situation in Israel right now seems to bring out that kind of thing in a lot of people, for some reason, and it drives me nuts. It's why I haven't posted a whole lot in threads like this one. People come into these discussions and talk like the israel/Palestine situation is absolutely black and white, and that's just not the case. We're talking about issues that re extremely layered and complex and nuanced.

When this whole thing hit the fan with the Hamas attack back in October, one of the things that immediately hit me was how little I really knew about what was going on over there. I proceeded to do some reading, and while I still don't understand things as well as I wish I did, I at least have a pretty good sense of how complicated it all is. Enough so that I see lot of the holes in some of the things people post, but not well enough to feel comfortable trying to educate anyone else.

I am absolutely opposed to Hamas, but I am honestly not 100% happy with every decision the government of Israel has made, either. There's no way I would feel comfortable trying to explain this to people who are throwing around words like "unequivocal" and "crystal clear," so I usually say very little.

I really wish people would stop assuming that they know everything they need to know about how things got to where they are in Israel, and take some time to inform themselves before making pronouncements about how "unequivocal" and "crystal clear" it all is. It's NOT, and I'm really tired of people ryong to tell me otherwise.

Sorry for the long rant. This has been bugging me for a while, and once I started typing, it all just kind of started spilling out!

Quite frankly, I am astounded that these comments have been allowed to stand.

The Middle East, (and the Levant in particular) has such a long and complex history that it can NEVER be compared with anything else. It really is truly a unique, ongoing disaster.

These people who want to dumb it down to a black / white - good / evil dichotomy are ignorant at best.
More and more, it seems dishonest manipulation is more likely.

going to happen and she got denied a speech at graduation because of it.

Good.

going back at least 3000 years. Muslim Arabs arrived on the scene in the 7th century CE to conquer the Christian Byzantine rulers. Throughout both periods, the indigenous Jews remained. Their numbers waxed and waned according to how they were treated in both Palestine and Europe. Contrary to popular belief, not all Muslim Arab rulers treated non Muslims well.

Today, 20% of Israeli citizens are Palestinian. They are teachers, lawyers, soldiers in the IDF, elected representatives in Knesset.

It is the height of absurdity to suggest that Israel should dissolve to be replaced by one nation throughout the region of the former British Mandate of Palestine. How well did such an arrangement work out for indigenous Americans under the one nation of the US?

Palestinian Muslims want to remove Jews from Palestine by oblitersting them from existence. That is not hyperbole or anti Palestinian propaganda. It is the sworn statement of Palestinian leaders, with the support from the people. Might as well force the families of MLK and Medgar Evers to live in a KKK enclave.

The only solution I can see is two separate states. To achieve that, both Palestinians and Israelis need to give up the idea of having the entire region for themselves.

is why your 5th paragraph will never happen.

I hope she has terrible luck with getting a job.

someone who is "Pro Palestinian" would have their speech cancelled because they are the ones who do the Protests.

Now I know.. TY.

If this would have been a "pro-Israel" speaker (or a Jew labelled "Zionist" ) , you can just imagine the screeches and howls of disapproval, as well as planned "protests" during the graduation.

Instead it's someone who would have been one of those "protesters" who wrote about the extinction of Israel on Social Media.

Not very smart.

on others' special day. She can graduate, get off campus and go protest somewhere else. Put that on her resume, too. U betcha.

This sort of thing has gotten out of hand in recent years.

She Is a human rights advocate from South Asia not a terrorist. The OP is
not the whole story by any means. Much of the inflammatory rhetoric is
directed at her.

"In a campuswide letter, USC Provost Andrew T. Guzman cited unnamed threats that have poured in shortly after the university publicized the valedictorian’s name and biography this month. Guzman said attacks against the student for her pro-Palestinian views have reached an “alarming tenor” and “escalated to the point of creating substantial risks relating to security and disruption at commencement” in May."

"In a statement, Tabassum opposed the decision, saying USC has “abandoned” her.

“Although this should have been a time of celebration for my family, friends, professors, and classmates, anti-Muslim and anti-Palestinian voices have subjected me to a campaign of racist hatred because of my uncompromising belief in human rights for all,” said Tabassum, who is Muslim."

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-04-15/usc-valedictorian-asna-tabassum.

Even if all she talks about is the weather, USC has a right not to be associated with a person of such hate, and has a right to avoid the security issues that person presents to the USC community.

considerable controversy. Graduation ceremonies are not forums for this sort of political activism.

“University of Spoiled Children”

USC cost of attendance for 2024 is $95,000 a year. If you’re rich enough, you can buy your kids ticket (eg Lori Loughlin). If you’re needier, you can score full financial aid via their endowment. No one who applies or attends there is under the impression it’s a public university- and the few people I’ve known who have gone there or had kids who did, miss no opportunity to remind people of that as often as possible. They opted to trade free speech for a USC diploma- you made your bed, lie in it.

to destroy Israel

Ain’t happening. Ever. Everyone else in history who tried to destroy Jews as a civilization wound up destroying themselves.

This person earned the right to be valedictorian. I wonder if the university could have demanded because of her extreme views to have the right to read the intended speech and insure it is reasonable.

Imagine the person had been Jewish and the concern was the speech could reference the need for the Gaza war to eliminate Hamas. Like above, I think in times like this, the university should have the right to demand the speaker should avoid the topic and give a speech that all graduates would not be offended by.

It was about her social media and the decision of the
Jewish students that she is a radical. Threats were then
made to the school and the administration claimed they
had to cancel the speech due to security issues.

Her minor is in resisting genocide.

"USC 2024 valedictorian, Asna Tabassum is a fourth-year student from Chino Hills, California. She will be graduating with a major in biomedical engineering and a minor in resistance to genocide which includes her studies on how technology, immigration and literacy play a role in the type of medical care people will receive.

snip

During her four years at USC, Tabassum did a lot of work for the community, first joining LACI (L.A. Community Impact) which works with nonprofit organizations around Los Angeles. Then she co-founded the club Blueprints for Pangaea with other fellow USC students. Its goal is to reallocate medical supplies from the Keck School of Medicine to areas in need around the world.

“Over the course of the next three years, I was in the club as president, I was able to send medical supplies to Ukraine, right after the war broke out, Turkey and Syria right after the earthquake, various different places around the world, which is really cool. Definitely the experience that I got the most out of and the I grew the most,” said Tabassum on the work she had achieved in the club.

She is also a student ambassador for Viterbi School of Engineering and part of the USC mobile clinic, which goes to homeless shelters in Skid Row conducting hypertension screenings."

https://www.uscannenbergmedia.com/2024/04/05/the-usc-valedictorian-and-two-salutatorians-were-announced-for-2024/

She has been grievously mis-represented on this thread. Her speech is far more likely to be about improving the world as her actions show, rather than violently destroying Israel.

Imagine for a moment that the University of Southern California let Asna Tabassum speak.

Imagine that instead of rescinding its invitation to have Tabassum deliver the valedictorian address, which the university did on Monday citing security threats, USC stood by its initial decision and said Tabassum would be allowed to speak as planned, albeit with heightened security measures to ensure her safety and the safety of all students and attendees.

What would have happened? The pro-Israel groups that opposed her appearance would have continued to criticize the invitation. Students and alumni on different sides of the issues would have challenged or supported the decision. Then, on graduation day, Tabassum would have spoken. Some students would cheer, others might have gotten up and walked out, or chosen a different way to protest whatever she might have said.

In other words: Life would have gone on.

more...

He thinks USC changed their minds Abou Tabassum speaking because of the Alumni.

USC blaming the Jewish Students, of Couse.. in so many words.

This only creates whining about "silencing my voice" martyrdom which is really annoying when not true.