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LetMyPeopleVote

(145,821 posts)
Sat Apr 27, 2024, 06:01 PM Apr 27

An unsettled contradiction at the heart of Trump's immunity claim

On immunity and impeachment, Donald Trump and his lawyers made one argument in 2021 and the opposite argument in 2024.



https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/unsettled-contradiction-heart-trumps-immunity-claim-rcna149502

Summarizing his position, Sauer at one point declared, “I’ll say in response to all these kinds of hypotheticals, [a president] has to be impeached and convicted before he can be criminally prosecuted.”

It is, to be sure, a difficult argument to take seriously. The presumptive GOP nominee’s defense counsel apparently expects the judiciary to agree that a former president might be subject to prosecution — for some of the most outrageous felonies imaginable — but only if a majority of the U.S. House and two-thirds of the U.S. Senate act first.

But it’s not just foolish. It’s also the opposite of what the Republican’s lawyers said during Trump’s second impeachment trial. MSNBC’s Chris Hayes was understandably exasperated by this as the oral arguments progressed.


This might seem a little complicated at first glance, but it’s actually entirely straightforward:

In early 2021, Trump’s lawyers said during his second impeachment trial that there was no need for the Senate to convict the former president, because the matter was better left to the judiciary.

In early 2024, Trump’s lawyers said the former president’s alleged crimes can’t be left to the judiciary, because the Senate didn’t vote to convict.

......In other words, Team Trump effectively argued in 2021, “Congress should leave such matters to the courts.” It’s now arguing, “The matter can’t be left to the courts because Congress needs to act.”

How are the former president and his lawyers resolving the contradiction? By ignoring it and hoping others don’t notice.

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LetMyPeopleVote

(145,821 posts)
1. The DC Circuit cited this contradiction in their opinion
Sat Apr 27, 2024, 06:04 PM
Apr 27

Here is the video of TFG's impeachment counsel telling the Senate that TFG could be tried and convicted if the Senate did not convict TFG.


lame54

(35,343 posts)
2. Right after the election...
Sat Apr 27, 2024, 06:25 PM
Apr 27

Trumpers were on one half of the country demanding the vote count be stopped while on the other side of the country they were demanding the count continue

They are nothing but contradictions

sop

(10,289 posts)
3. Here's another contradiction involving Trump, McConnell and the Supreme Court:
Sat Apr 27, 2024, 06:45 PM
Apr 27

Mitch McConnell refused to hold a confirmation hearing for Merrick Garland after nominated by Obama to replace Scalia eight months before the 2016 election, saying "voters should decide which presidential candidate should pick the next justice." But when Justice Ginsburg's died 6 weeks before the 2020 election, McConnell said Trump's nominee to replace her "will receive a vote on the floor of the United States Senate."

LetMyPeopleVote

(145,821 posts)
5. I am a old college debater and I was amused to see the DC Circuit cite the Congressional Record
Sat Apr 27, 2024, 06:57 PM
Apr 27

Last edited Sat Apr 27, 2024, 08:05 PM - Edit history (1)

We used to have to read the Congressional Record every day back in my college debate days




Those were the days of electric type writers and memo graph machines
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