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11 Bravo

(23,926 posts)
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:24 PM Nov 2012

On "prick", "dickhead", and other misogynistic language ...

Well, I'm a 61 year old white male, and I cannot recall a single instance when I was ever denied one fucking thing because of my gender.
I say this as one who is fairly close to a free speech absolutist; but perhaps those who HAVE been held back with regard to little things like the right to vote, the right to control their own reproductive freedom, and the right to receive equal pay for equal work might be allowed a little bit of leeway in determining which words are more hurtful, if not in the real world, at least in the context of a progressive internet message board.
Of course, that's just one man's opinion.

57 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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On "prick", "dickhead", and other misogynistic language ... (Original Post) 11 Bravo Nov 2012 OP
Thank you for a thoughtful post....n/t annabanana Nov 2012 #1
wow. Thank you. mzteris Nov 2012 #2
Amen. nt duhneece Nov 2012 #45
(Misandrist. :-) ) Awesome post! WinkyDink Nov 2012 #3
Yeah, I knew that when I typed it, but thought it might get lost in translation . Do you think ... 11 Bravo Nov 2012 #6
nah, just let it go. we have to have something to kvetch about. niyad Nov 2012 #8
I like it. I thought you did it on purpose, ironic-like. yardwork Nov 2012 #12
Thank you ismnotwasm Nov 2012 #4
+1 66 year old caucasian male... oldhippydude Nov 2012 #5
thank you for a very thoughtful post. "prick" and "dickhead" would more properly be considered niyad Nov 2012 #7
k&r... spanone Nov 2012 #9
Right on. Great post. Politicub Nov 2012 #10
denied? well at least maybe not that you KNOW of... nt msongs Nov 2012 #11
Like unicorns and flying monkeys-- LanternWaste Nov 2012 #14
I think he was talking about the right to vote. eomer Nov 2012 #20
Will there be a list of these words forthcoming to guide us? Vinnie From Indy Nov 2012 #13
There is a list... LanternWaste Nov 2012 #19
Thee's always one xxqqqzme Nov 2012 #23
Resorting to sexist language suggests other mental/perceptual limitations. lapislzi Nov 2012 #49
I do think the term bitch is almost gender neutral now. alphafemale Nov 2012 #15
I do think the term bitch is almost gender neutral now. AlbertCat Nov 2012 #31
Well, "bastard" IS (technically) gender-neutral ... TahitiNut Nov 2012 #35
The thing about "bastard" gollygee Nov 2012 #41
So refer to him as a "Son of a Bachelor". . . Journeyman Nov 2012 #43
the term "bitch" alphafemale Dec 2012 #56
"I cannot recall a single instance when I was ever denied one fucking thing because of my gender." Marmitist Nov 2012 #16
jerk? nt seabeyond Nov 2012 #24
Thank you very much, 11 Bravo. freshwest Nov 2012 #17
I like what Jeff Foxworthy did with "redneck." tclambert Nov 2012 #18
Believe it or not there's a lot of feminists who believe in taking back words as well Major Nikon Nov 2012 #22
Except they have different origins loyalsister Nov 2012 #54
Redneck means something considerably different to those who are old enough to remember Major Nikon Nov 2012 #55
My great grandmother was denied the right to vote Major Nikon Nov 2012 #21
One of my mother's early memories Warpy Nov 2012 #27
I agree completely Major Nikon Nov 2012 #51
Marry me? liberalmuse Nov 2012 #25
Huh? That's misanthropic language. I'm a woman & we don't have pricks or dicks. Maybe I patrice Nov 2012 #26
Misandrist, I believe. EOTE Nov 2012 #47
Thanks for the catch! . . . & some of that going around too!, sad to say. patrice Nov 2012 #50
Well Said chknltl Nov 2012 #28
K&R SunSeeker Nov 2012 #29
I prefer Dickhead.............. jeggus Nov 2012 #30
If you have a female significant other, make sure she sees your OP. Zorra Nov 2012 #32
I admit I use to use all that language . . . CrispyQ Nov 2012 #33
You old dog you. Ya know, dog is the word for the male of the species. geckosfeet Nov 2012 #34
Could expect nothing less from the class of '69 OldHippieChick Nov 2012 #36
Class of '69-- Jackpine Radical Nov 2012 #38
Seriously? lumberjack_jeff Nov 2012 #37
Yup. Haven't seen one of them in years. Jackpine Radical Nov 2012 #39
I disagree mythology Nov 2012 #40
How about kids in a custody fight? Eyes of the World Nov 2012 #42
Actually I'm one woman on the planet who has no strong reaction about the c word cherish44 Nov 2012 #44
I think neffernin Nov 2012 #48
Those kinds of things reflect far more negatively on those who use them Major Nikon Nov 2012 #53
I tell my wife neffernin Nov 2012 #46
I agree. I've listened here and changed my mind. Warren Stupidity Nov 2012 #52
I hope I'm not being too forward, but.... Tsiyu Dec 2012 #57

mzteris

(16,232 posts)
2. wow. Thank you.
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:37 PM
Nov 2012

not quite what I was expecting when I clicked on the link.

You get it. You understand. That, sir, is a great feeling.

Thank you.

11 Bravo

(23,926 posts)
6. Yeah, I knew that when I typed it, but thought it might get lost in translation . Do you think ...
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:46 PM
Nov 2012

I should edit, or just let it go?

niyad

(113,462 posts)
7. thank you for a very thoughtful post. "prick" and "dickhead" would more properly be considered
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:48 PM
Nov 2012

misandrist, rather than misogynistic, however.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
14. Like unicorns and flying monkeys--
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:58 PM
Nov 2012

"denied? well at least maybe not that you KNOW of.."

Like unicorns and flying monkeys-- I've never seen one that I KNOW of...

eomer

(3,845 posts)
20. I think he was talking about the right to vote.
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 09:26 PM
Nov 2012

There is no doubt some people have been denied the right to vote without knowing it.



Vinnie From Indy

(10,820 posts)
13. Will there be a list of these words forthcoming to guide us?
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 08:57 PM
Nov 2012

After that list is produced, wouldn't it make sense to move on to producing lists of books and magazines that are hurtful? After that, maybe a list of hurtful art could be produced as well.

Please let us know when these lists have been prepared and posted.

Cheers!

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
19. There is a list...
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 09:26 PM
Nov 2012

There is a list... it's simply called common sense and common decency. No small print, either. Of course, one may choose to ignore common sense, and rationalize the contrary behavior-- happens all the time.

lapislzi

(5,762 posts)
49. Resorting to sexist language suggests other mental/perceptual limitations.
Wed Nov 28, 2012, 05:09 PM
Nov 2012

A dearth of ideas, if you will, or an extension of the Confucian proverb, "the man (sic) who strikes the first blow admits that his ideas have given out."

If that's all you can come up with, I feel sorry for you. And, if you are OK with your whole self being shorthanded into a piece of anatomy, then I feel even more sorry for you.

There are plenty of creative and intelligent ways to insult people's ideas without stooping to this language.

Let that stand as a challenge to you, Indy friend.

 

alphafemale

(18,497 posts)
15. I do think the term bitch is almost gender neutral now.
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 09:12 PM
Nov 2012

Especially as a verb. Almost like hysteria has lost its roots to being specifically demeaning to females.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
31. I do think the term bitch is almost gender neutral now.
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 10:09 PM
Nov 2012

I just watch the film "Evil Under the Sun"... made sometime in the 80's...mid 8o's I think. They used the word "bitch" like 50 times!

As a verb, it has nothing to do with gender... and hasn't for a while.

TahitiNut

(71,611 posts)
35. Well, "bastard" IS (technically) gender-neutral ...
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 10:22 PM
Nov 2012

... but I'd guess a poll might find that more than 75% just unconsciously assume it applies only to males. It's pretty much the connotation even if it's not the denotation. It's my impression that it's a sociological/cultural balancing vis-a-vis "bitch" in an attempt to gain symmetry. (Linguistically, "dog" would be the appropriate symmetry' but it just doesn't have the impact desired.) It's strange that anyone would choose to impugn someone's parents instead of the person, but I guess that's a kind of collateral damage in the war between the sexes.

I'm pretty much as feminist as a guy can reasonably get and have never regarded "bitch" (or even "slut&quot as demeaning to all women, any more than I've regarded "prick" or "putz" as demeaning to all men, even though those latter terms would, at least analytically, be arguably more demeaning to the whole gender. I tend to overthink such things, I guess.


gollygee

(22,336 posts)
41. The thing about "bastard"
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 11:04 PM
Nov 2012

Is that it's more a statement about the person's mother than the person. That's an annoyance to me - that two of the negative things to call a man, "bastard" and "son of a bitch", are both really about his mother. (Though yes, bastard is technically gender neutral.)

Journeyman

(15,036 posts)
43. So refer to him as a "Son of a Bachelor". . .
Wed Nov 28, 2012, 06:30 AM
Nov 2012

you get two insults in one, you keep yourself clean, and yet in no way do you demean the recipient's mother.

(The insult "Son of a Bachelor" is from Herman Melville, Moby Dick.)

 

alphafemale

(18,497 posts)
56. the term "bitch"
Sat Dec 1, 2012, 05:50 AM
Dec 2012

Really seems as benign and almost gender neutral as harp or nag.

Especially as a verb.

Language evolves.

 

Marmitist

(64 posts)
16. "I cannot recall a single instance when I was ever denied one fucking thing because of my gender."
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 09:20 PM
Nov 2012

Lesbian Sex?

tclambert

(11,087 posts)
18. I like what Jeff Foxworthy did with "redneck."
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 09:23 PM
Nov 2012

It's just a joke now. You can't really insult anyone with it. If you try to ban a word, that gives it more power--shock power, defiance of authority power, rarity of use power. Make it common and silly and poof! it becomes powerless.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
22. Believe it or not there's a lot of feminists who believe in taking back words as well
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 09:30 PM
Nov 2012

...for the same reasons. It makes a lot of sense.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
54. Except they have different origins
Wed Nov 28, 2012, 11:40 PM
Nov 2012

There is a valid unoffensive reference for redneck - the sun a farmer gets when working.

Taking back words that have an offensive origin don't change that only meaning they have had.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
55. Redneck means something considerably different to those who are old enough to remember
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:13 AM
Nov 2012

At least that has been my experience growing up in the South.

Redneck is a derogatory slang term used in reference to poor, uneducated white farmers, especially from the southern United States.[1][2] It is similar in meaning to cracker (especially regarding Georgia and Florida), hillbilly (especially regarding Appalachia and the Ozarks),[3] and white trash (but without the last term's suggestions of immorality).[4][5][6]

In recent decades, the term has expanded its meaning to refer to bigoted, loutish reactionaries who are opposed to modern ways,[7] and has often been used to attack Southern conservatives and racists.[8] At the same time, some Southern whites have reclaimed the word, using it with pride and defiance as a self-identifier.[9]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck



Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
21. My great grandmother was denied the right to vote
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 09:28 PM
Nov 2012

...but I've never felt that empowered me to use sexist language.

Just sayin'

Warpy

(111,292 posts)
27. One of my mother's early memories
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 09:51 PM
Nov 2012

was of marching in a Suffragette parade in NYC with my grandmother and great grandmother. I'm the last of a long line of uppity Irish broads.

However, I find language policing to be far more offensive than language that might make me cringe.

It's ruined more than one board.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
51. I agree completely
Wed Nov 28, 2012, 06:30 PM
Nov 2012

I just reject the notion that because women were denied the right to vote, one of the two genders deserves any privilege over the other. It's simply an attempt to conflate race based discrimination (which certainly is generational) to gender based discrimination, which isn't. Women got the right to vote in 1920. At that time the voting age was 21. Therefore anyone living today who was ever denied the right to vote based on gender could be born no later than 1899 and would be at least 113 today.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
26. Huh? That's misanthropic language. I'm a woman & we don't have pricks or dicks. Maybe I
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 09:50 PM
Nov 2012

misunderstand what you're referring to.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
32. If you have a female significant other, make sure she sees your OP.
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 10:12 PM
Nov 2012

I'm pretty sure you'll be very glad you did.

CrispyQ

(36,482 posts)
33. I admit I use to use all that language . . .
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 10:15 PM
Nov 2012

bitch, cunt, twat, dick, prick. Now I just use asshole cuz everyone has one! I'm an equal opportunity swearer.

The hardest word to give up was prick. It just sounds so succinct & perfect on the tongue.

A very thoughtful post 11Bravo!

geckosfeet

(9,644 posts)
34. You old dog you. Ya know, dog is the word for the male of the species.
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 10:17 PM
Nov 2012

But I mean it in the best way possible.



In breeding circles, a male canine is referred to as a dog, while a female is called a bitch (Middle English bicche, from Old English bicce, ultimately from Old Norse bikkja). A group of offspring is a litter. The father of a litter is called the sire, and the mother is called the dam. Offspring are, in general, called pups or puppies, from French poupée, until they are about a year old. The process of birth is whelping, from the Old English word hwelp (cf. German Welpe, Dutch welp, Swedish valpa, Icelandic hvelpur).


I am guessing that even when not breeding it is permissible to call dogs dogs and bitches bitches. Funny how much canine taxonomy we apply to humans.

Dog - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
38. Class of '69--
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 10:38 PM
Nov 2012

We shall intertwine.

I sorta accidentally became a member of the Class of '69 because the draft board thought i needed a little vacation from college. (Should have graduated with my BS in '66.)

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
37. Seriously?
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 10:37 PM
Nov 2012

If you are 61, you are familiar with this.



Sometimes, it's not what you're denied, but what you're obliged.

And as pointed out upthread, a review of the dictionary definition of "misogyny" may be in order.

But to your main point, I fully agree that if terms are hurtful, they shouldn't be used. But "context" be damned. If it shouldn't be said, it shouldn't be said.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
39. Yup. Haven't seen one of them in years.
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 10:40 PM
Nov 2012

I went from 1A to 4A after a little hiking & camping tour of what used to be French Indochina.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
40. I disagree
Tue Nov 27, 2012, 11:02 PM
Nov 2012

If the underlying issue is that people are using a word based on a gender specific meaning, then it's wrong if it's used as an insult. Otherwise you're being a hypocrite.

Besides, I don't know about you, but I've certainly had people treat me as though I wouldn't know or want to know about certain things because I'm a guy. I've had to watch people run to check on a woman who was injured and those same people the next day laughed in my face for getting injured because as a guy I should have been okay with it. The concussion I took lasted longer than the broken nose the woman had.

There's almost always going to be a group that had it worse. Can women not complain because the African slaves had it worse in this country in the historical reference? Or can the descendant so African slaves complain more?

 
42. How about kids in a custody fight?
Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:24 AM
Nov 2012

Family court still seems to think that its harder to be a mother without a vagina.

But at least they don't call you names while they humiliate you. So there is that...

cherish44

(2,566 posts)
44. Actually I'm one woman on the planet who has no strong reaction about the c word
Wed Nov 28, 2012, 08:37 AM
Nov 2012

You can call me that a million times. I HAVE been called that... I don't flinch or even care. And believe me, that drives the person who is directing the profanity crazy.... Insults only have as much power as you're willing to give them.

neffernin

(275 posts)
48. I think
Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:54 PM
Nov 2012

a lot of spawns from "principle of the matter". Its not the word itself, it the perceived disrespect etc. I can understand it, but many do take it a bit too far with how much they are against it (and some people don't know when its never appropriate).

neffernin

(275 posts)
46. I tell my wife
Wed Nov 28, 2012, 04:43 PM
Nov 2012

that in some ways, I can understand her plight. I was born into a family with poverty on all sides and have managed to rise up into the middle class completely on my own; it hasn't been easy and has taken lots of hard work and luck. But she is a (now legal) Hispanic immigrant and even though she speaks perfect English (its her first language as she grew up here) and was at the top of her high school class she will never have it easy just due to the color of her skin and the prejudices that people have in hiring positions against women's abilities. In that way, I'll never be able to understand her plight; I can just do my best to support her to achieve as much as she can.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
52. I agree. I've listened here and changed my mind.
Wed Nov 28, 2012, 06:48 PM
Nov 2012

What is the big deal? If a group I care about finds a behavior I don't care about offensive, I can lose that behavior in a heartbeat. No big deal.

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