vs the number of views, I have to wonder if maybe I posted this in the wrong forum.

In the old DU, this would have generated a lot of response.

I have to wonder, am I so far off the mark. or am I so close to it?

I miss the old DU.

Last edited Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:21 AM - Edit history (3)

The Grand Bargain was no victory for liberals. The Grand Bargain was a shock doctrine scam designed to force the 99 percent into accepting austerity when austerity would never have been accepted by the country had it been offered as an option by representatives who truly meant to represent us. How dare you claim that using Medicare and Social Security as hostages to get an austerity deal was a victory for liberals.

I'll tell you what the Grand Bargain gave us. The Grand Bargain gave us validation of right-wing lies and talking points about what is wrong with our economy and what needs to be done to fix it. It gave us Democratic enabling of the right-wing narrative and commitments for trillions in cuts to the budget when our own eyes, the experience of Europe, and hundreds of economists have shown us that austerity is a cruel, destructive scam for profit, a destroyer of economies and murderer of human beings. It gave us Third Way garbage rhetoric about "shared sacrifice," and it completely obscured the fact that the 99 percent have been deliberately looted and impoverished through policy for the past 30 years, escalating in the past 15.

Dems had better damned well try harder. They had better try harder to correct the larger narrative and to represent the people who gave them this election victory. We are being fed garbage propaganda trying to tell us that we will have won and should be grateful if Dems merely refrain from attacking us one more time in some particular area like Social Security or taxes. But we have already lost the big game, because this entire reeking deal will keep the Republican narrative and the march to austerity alive, along with 99.999 percent of the corporate-restructured status quo that is destroying millions of American lives as we speak.

Dems owe us much, much more than a promise not to assault us again in some isolated, particular way. We are owed a new vision, a sweeping, passionate, and sustained correction of the LIES that we have been hearing for 30 years, and a sustained, serious campaign of action to REVERSE the structural changes of the past 30 years and the damage that has been perpetrated on millions of Americans.

Gotta have a cigarette.

Were you asleep?

Google is your friend. Please educate yourself.

Thank you

And Obama told Boner he was willing to make the deal. Just like Democrat Clinton did NAFTA, GATT and the Telecom Act.

Austerity sent Europe into a puke spraying spin. Now the New World Order folks want to bring it to the homeland.

woo me with science is right.

The media traitors have duped good folks into buying this crap long enough.

Read this, you capitulating DINOs. Understand this, you capitulating DINOs.

Take it to heart.


Or reap the whirlwind.

"a deal that overwhelmingly benefitted Progressive ideals"

Seriously?

That's only true if "progressive ideals" means "Reaganomics".

Seriously?

Here, read this

http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxcompromise2010.pdf

is ridiculous on the face of it.

I did not read your link, I prefer to think for myself.

Where you get the information to think for yourself. Thinking for yourself means you take in data from a number of sources, and then make an informed decision. By refusing to read the information contained at the link, you have demonstrated you are not thinking for yourself, and instead are parroting talking points of Democrats who are trying to set the ground up to declare defeat a victory of sorts.

In other words, stop carrying the water of the surrender now Blue Dogs. We have time on our side, and we have facts on our side. The Repugs will NEVER hold fast to their no taxes on the rich crap. They're already folding like a house of cards in a strong wind. Deep south Conservative Repugs like Chambliss was the first to throw the no tax increase pledge out the window. So while the Repugs are giving up, we're racing to show we can surrender faster, and we're told that is a victory? Pfui.

nor am I a Blue Dog. This is what I am talking about when it comes to Revisionist History.

Actually, I did learn to think for myself. I did take in data from a number of different sources, That is HOW I came to the decisions that I did.

Good advice. You should follow it, yourself.

Incidentally, since you mentioned "the Liberals" and not "we liberals" or anything equivalent, it's clear that you are not a liberal.

to paint "tax cuts for the rich" as Reaganomics? That is the very definition of Reaganomics.

As for thinking for yourself, that is all well and good. But if you assert that 4 times 2 is greater than the square root of 81 you are not thinking for yourself just because you refuse to look at any calculations. You are fooling yourself, and simply saying, as in the classic joke - "my mind's made up, don't confuse me with the facts."

I guess they think the Republicans solution to everything, "tax cuts tax cuts, tax cuts" is also part of the Dem party platform.

On top of that, they think this is what represents a progressive victory. We have truly entered bizarro world.

i'd have foregone my lousy hundred bucks for real reform, thanks.

He might not always seem strong in the process but he gets what he wants.

The Republicans are really not that smart at negotiating. If they get over their anti-tax rhetoric and actually insists on compromising with Democrats, they could get a lot more concessions from Obama. Instead they care about short term political gain which can become their own undoing.

WTF?

He tries to start from just this side of what hey want and never gets tough.
He's so busy trying to reason with the fool scorpions that he forgets who brought him to the damn table!

Seriously?

I support single Payer, but not even the Public Option would pass.

I would prefer single payer over the ACA, but it won't pass. So I'll settle for the ACA.

Maybe someday we'll be ready for Medicare for All. I'll gladly support it. But until then, I'll settle for the ACA. It's better than what we had before.

are going to need a little more time and a few more lessons.

with the filibuster firmly in place and too many BlueDogDems that infested the House. To not understand the dynamics of that time only makes your post sound like a Tea Partier who is creating an alternative Obama to criticize. Yeah, President Obama knows who'd brung him to the table, and so should you.

So it's like totally awesome to communicate your views to your Members of Congress of both parties, and to President Obama.

Durbin said Social Security should be off the table for a temporary deal, but back on the table later for a long term deal.

If they claim to be saving money from Medicare without cutting benefits, they have to show the specifics on that, because we would need proof, not just a promise.

I'm not sure why they want to cut spending right now anyway. Seems to go against the advice of economists.

A financial transaction tax should also be on the table as part of any deal.

i'd prefer single-payer negotiating on drug prices.

So if he is saying this, that is encouraging. Hopefully what he says reflects the White House's position as well.

which I thought was a RW tactic. But there are some on the Left twisting his words as well. I thought We were better than that.

party with Purists. That's pretty clear.

The Democratic Party has its loud, though tiny, fair share of a fringe, too. President Obama understood that, that's why he expanded his base. No longer could they hold him hostage with their unrealistic demands "or they'd otherwise not vote for him" bull shit. With a strong growing Latino (moderates) and African-American (pragmatists) base, he could garner enough voters to push him over the finish line.

Luckily for us, the vast majority in the Democratic Party are pragmatists, not idealists, and that's why we got health care reform, among so many other beneficial policies, through - something that couldn't be done in 60 years.

and much like the TeaBagger community of the Republican Party, underestimated this president and FAILED. Bwahahaha!

Missed that did ya?

president only to get burned.

.. who's at the top of your priority list...

.. and it ISN'T the People.

Great "Democratic" set of values you've got there.

And if the shoe fits, hey, what can I say?

... maybe you could toss out a few more tired, irrelevant cliches and pretend they are deep thinking?

Then I'd become you, wouldn't I?

Not sure what you're basing it on, but it's always nice to maintain a positive attitude

Keep focused on the good work President Obama is getting through.

Last edited Wed Nov 28, 2012, 01:54 PM - Edit history (1)

to observe the perfect irony of that post.

Sheesh. Settle down, will ya? We're not the enemy.

Woo says it best in #2.

Social Security and Medicare have been "third rail" for decades -- do we REALLY need to tell Obama that?

educate yourself. Google is your friend.

aren't here to educate themselves, NashvilleLefty. Besides, they know everything soooo much better than everybody else - MUCH better than President Obama, even. They remind me of the other fringe, the way they create a phantom Obama just so they can tear him to pieces. I don't really know why they're insistent upon seeing the glass as always half empty when it comes to this president, but the antagonistic tone of their posts tells me there's something deeper going on with these types, and it ain't pretty.

Don't worry too much, NashvilleLefty. Your posts are appreciated by the majority despite the shrillness of the minority here.

If it's Melissa Harris-Perry bullshit, peddle it elsewhere, because "these types" ain't buying it..

it might be the deep, deep mourning some die-hard Dennis Kucinich fans are suffering because their beloved icon has lost his seat to a REAL Democrat and he's OUT of office this January and they feel they need to lash out at the "cheerleaders" in "their" Democratic Party because no one gives a damn about that inconsequential Democrat who has proven to be a great ally for the Republican Party? Could that be it?

Skepticism is healthy. Blind loyalty is not.

I doubted Saddam had WMDs, and guess what? I was right.

I doubted that Afghanistan would be anything but a huge clusterfuck, and guess what? I was right.

I doubted that the Bush tax cuts would do anything but hurt the economy, and guess what? I was right.

In 1983, bipartisanship gave us age eligibility increases to Social Security. Why would you doubt that it couldn't happen again? ESPECIALLY with our current president, who praises Reagan and strives for bipartisanship?

And if you're going to hurl what you consider to be insults at anyone who isn't a die-hard Obama fan, at least get it right: I'd be considered a Deaniac. But I'm also a big girl who will acknowledge when he's right, and when he's wrong. Something I can do with Obama, and yes, Kucinich. Try it sometime.

talk about revisionism. I have never heard even the most die-hard BOG-er call that deal a great success for the "liberal" wing. As the famous movie scene goes - "I don't think that word means what you think it means."

where BOG types kept saying Obama is the most progressive president we have ever had. They eventually stopped due to either sheer embarrassment, or being unable to keep a straight face when they said it. Maybe this OP can be the start of a new campaign with this theme.

and judge individual actions by themselves.

sometimes I wonder if they're Liberals or TeaBaggers as antagonistic as they are.

Another reason why President Obama knew he had to expand his base.

DU needs some new tricks, and is a lagging a bit behind the times in this area. I suggested it back some months ago when DU 3 first went online. And so did many others in fact.

That would so awesome.

on whether or not there will be a grand bargain? Do I think there will be a grand bargain? Yes. Will it crush me if it turns out I'm wrong? No. But I'm sure there will be plenty of people ready to say see I was right and rub my nose in it. I would love to be wrong on this one. I hope I'm wrong on this one. Geez. We really are too obsessed with being right all the time. It's okay to be wrong sometimes people.

But there is so much unjustified fear expressed here that I felt it needed that it be addressed.

But, no, there won't be another "Grand Bargain".

a history so recent and well documented that the news stories still come up in the first page of two of any Google search. Then, you complain because people are looking at it and choosing to let it sink into the oblivion it so richly deserves. And now that you have indeed sparked some discussion you label it RW talking points and revisionist history.

From whose playbook is this strategy drawn?

I am glad the republicans rejected the grand bargain, because Obama did offer cutting medicare benefits and social security benefits.

now Democrats get to return the favor.

Van Hollen takes Medicare age increase and Social Security off the table
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021891741

Sanders Applauds White House for Taking Social Security Off the Table in Deficit Talks
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014319000

He has done little to calm the fears and suspicions of progressives.

Meanwhile, the Republicans have to hate him, even when he adopts Republican policies. After all, what good is a one-party system in a "democracy"? That would be a public relations nightmare...