"You gotta pay to see 'em...."

And his fears of a replay of the disastrous "bargaining" (aka hostage taking) that occurred two years ago are incredibly valid, IMO.

I did not vote for Obama just to get a repeat of that bullshit before he's even been sworn into a second term.

PB

four years?

This is an end-game that started two+ years ago. What happens before January 1st of next year is kind of like a story arc wrapping up on a TV show. A season-ender.

The new congress is the new congress and while it's not all that different, it is different.

The Republicans have gotten him back in the desperation box just like two years ago. Once he's out of that, he can take it different ways.

If he chooses.

If he railroads this though, and it's a shitty a "deal" as it appears on every level, then he could juke around, politically, all he wants but it won't matter: This deal is going to cast a very long shadow if it's made and this is the least favorable time in which to negotiate it.

So yes...and no.

PB

If Reid is talking about changing the structure of the filibuster rules publically, it means he knows he has (or is damn close to having) the votes to actually do so. Once that's done, the DemSenateCaucus can write whatever bill they want to, and the House GOPBagers will have to vote NO on TAX CUTS.
I would bet that the Dems are mostly ok with a a Grand Bargin, but NOT until after the first of the year.

And, one Senator can use the current filibuster rule to stop legislation from moving forward. I believe we will be stepping off the fiscal curb in January.

I think Obama and Dems are maneuvering and campaigning to draw the rethugs out from now until January 3rd. I don't think they have any reasonable expectation that the rethugs are going to do anything different than they have for the past 4 years. As De Fazio said, the Dems will be better positioned - and hopefully with some filibuster reforms in place - in January to respond the so-called fiscal cliff we're about to plunge off. The rethugs have used this as a scare tactic with their constitutents and manipulated Obama in the past, and now he's turning the tables on them. During this period, the people will see that they're committed to tax fairness and rethugs are doing nothing but digging in the heels for the Blankfeins and Daddy Warbucks of the world. Let's have sundown on this congress and start new in January.

Not a bought off whore, not a corporate toadie. Wish we had 200 more of him.

Proof of that strategy is the landslide of November 6th, 2012.

Definitely doable.

Considering gerrymandering, the President not being on the ballot and the Democrats never doing what the people voted for them to do.

The President needs to keep the ground game intact and endlessly repeat that voting for Democratic candidates is the same as voting for him one more time. Many people only came out to vote for him and we need to get those voters back out. If we can, maybe there's a chance.

But even with that, the chances of getting real deal Democrats like DeFazio elected is still slim.

It's nice to know I voted for a real guy. lives about a mile from me.

Unfortunately, I'm stuck with Rep. Greg Walden (R), but my money if not my vote went to Pete. One of the greats!

Bob Brady (PA-1)

He's not a firebrand but he always votes the right way.

To tae his advise. They want austerity, and to crash the safety net.

Why isn't Defazio in the room during negotiations?

That's why. I'm not even going to try to pretty it up.

Watch this snippet from Big Ed's show just a few nights ago to understand the mentality of the President, his Senior Advisor (Plouffe) and now Dick Durbin:

You don't have to tell me I have written to the whitehouse and my congressmen and women since the election. I could tell which way the wind was blown'n as I watch the CONS start to dictate a couple of days after the election and if we don't speak up now,then forever hold your peace.

...hide the fact that you didn't.

Anyone who regularly reads DU knows which of the two it was.



PB

is nonsense:

opposed tax cuts for the middle class.

DeFazio is a Democrat who supports DEMOCRATIC stimulus.
He knows, and is not afraid to say, that Tax Cuts are the most inefficient and ineffective form of Stimulus available to the government. Government Spending and Jobs Programs work FAR better, help those who NEED it (The Working Class & Poor), and is the traditional Democratic Party method of stimulating the economy.

Defazio had NO problem spending the money targeted on Tax Cuts for MORE government spending, and voted FOR the original House version that contained
MORE Government Spending. His NO vote on the final bill was symbolic,
and I applaud him for standing up for traditional Democratic Party Values.

..that did NOT mean he wasn't a "Patriot".
In fact, the opposite was true.

Defazio voted YES on the first bill through the House that contained MORE government spending.
THAT, right there, completely Shoots Down in Flames your claim that he is a "deficit hawk".




There is NO denying that Tax Cuts are the least effective form of Stimulus (or will YOU try to deny that?)

DeFazio voted against the stimulus bill and the People's Budget.

Boo!

That isn't even employing Logical Fallacies in a desperate attempt to support a failing position.
What you did in your post ^ is simply Running Away & Hiding when confronted with the TRUTH about your statement.

Boo!

I agree with him on the fiscal cliff, but stop trying to sell a horrible vote as something it's not.

The 246 Democrats, including the entire Progressive Caucus, who voted for the bill are also Democrats.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll070.xml

Are you going to pretend that you have never heard of a Symbolic Protest Vote?
I applaud Defazio for using this old Congressional Tradition of expressing his support for Traditional Democratic methods of stimulating the economy through Government Spending and Jobs Programs
instead of the traditional Republican non-method of Tax Cuts.

Are you really going to try and pretend you don't know about Symbolic Votes?
Nobody is going to believe you.


There is NO denying that Tax Cuts are the least effective form of Stimulus (or will YOU try to deny that?)

The 246 Democrats who voted for the bill, not a single Republican did, saw no need to protest.

Conyers, Grayson, Grijalva, Kucinich all voted yes.

You also haven't explained why he voted against he People's Budget.

caught a fish,
pulled it out of the water,
and watched it flopping around helplessly on the ground?
That is what I'm (and those reading this thread) are watching now.

NOW, do you have a rebuttal that addresses ANY of these specific points I have listed, some from the same source as your out-of-context quote in your willful attempt to slime a good Democrat and mislead DUers with false information?

Are you STILL going to Double Down on your absurd and willfully misleading claim that Congressman Defazio is "an anti-stimulus deficit hawk"?

ProSense, when you find yourself in a hole,
STOP DIGGING.

particularly the President. Just ride it out. Call their bluff.

...embolden other Democrats who feel similarly to speak up.

We must not be saddled with a hastily-negotiated "deal" for the next 10-20 years.

Not in this environment, and certainly not with the lame-duck Congress crawling with Tea Party types.

Next session, it won't be perfect. But it'll be better.

Sometimes that makes all the difference.

PB

Let's get rid of the tax cuts for everybody, and make the first bill a BETTER tax cut for the middle class and the poor.

The rich gets a massive tax raise to offset the new tax cuts.

And the Republicans will whine more.

And lose in 2014 by a massive amount for the Republicans.

Will we take another hit like last time?

Are interest rates higher or lower now?

(hint- our rating only matters to pundits and economic chicken littles, at least in this current world economy)


Our Credit will be immeasurably strengthened by a package of tax hikes and sensible expenditure reductions. And I am certain Obama is headed for this.

...aggressively like that. He really does. I wish he got more shots on TV because he can go toe to toe with anyone.

PB

Ben Nelson, get a clue.

dropped the USA down a notch, the treasury yields went down - just the opposite of what a lowered credit rating would do.

These rating companies get paid by some company to make a rating estimate and S&P or Moodys or whomever gives them what they want. Remember, they gave AAA ratings to worthless CDOs.

"No Lame Duck Deals" ... Send 'em home either to stay or to think about it and face their Middle Class and elderly taxpayers.

Indeed...

"...the only tax rate that changes on January 1st is ...

Since when is a series of steps and cliff?

Merkley is on the filibuster in the Senate and DeFazio says this which makes total sense.

I love my state Oregon!!!!

Both of those got hi-jacked by citizen organizations and put on the ballot. So the legislators got cut out of the flow of legalizing them.

Seems fortunate in Washington that the people put them on the ballot and cut out the legislature.

By-the-way I was raised in Portland, went to Marshall High and love Portland and the Oregon coast.

...thwarted by their own party.

PB

...again.



[font color=firebrick size=3][center]"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone[/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]

[font size=5 color=firebrick]Solidarity![/font]

I was beginning to believe they were mythical creatures like leprechauns or unicorns...

I hope more Dems back him up.

Enough letting the rich steer proceedings using M$M spin as the rudder.

I'm not in his district, but I've sent him a check once or twice. The guy who runs against him (Art Robinson) is certifiable.

Almost in his dist--but noooot quite-but I totally "lobby" votes for him He's a good one!

But how do Democrats counter the, "President Obama promised not to raise taxes on those making $250K or less" noise from the gop and working class democrats, alike, that is bound to follow ... noise that, with help of the "liberal media" I fear will drown out every other discussion going into 2014, even if a working class tax cut is re-instated (with republican votes, BTW)?

I still say ... get the gop on record either voting against the Senate Bill, or refusing to bring the Senate Bill to a House vote. That way, if we do go over the cliff, the gop cannot claim (as much) credit, if/when a 2013 Bill re-instates the working class tax cuts.

it's time to stop wringing your hands over what some teabagger or blue dog is going to say. let them expire, then hold a vote on middle class tax cuts.

it's about creating/exposing arguments that hold or expand the Senate AND take back the House in 2014.

President'. There is nothing Obama or any Democrat can say that will not be met with any sort of blather the Republicans feel like spewing. They do not take cues from actual words or reasons. No matter what you say, you need to be ready to counter utter bullshit out of them. Example, you can say 'I was born in Hawaii' and they say 'so you are Kenyan born' and you can say 'no, Honolulu' and they say 'Ah, Nairobi, where your Daddy taught Commie 101 to the school kids'.
I mean, you and I just watched the same election. These are irrational, racist vote suppressing lunatics with only self interest at heart. Yet you think there is some way to cozy on by them, some need to not ruffle the feathers of the right?
Oh, and by the way. Working class Democrats just elected Obama. You claim working class Democrats parrot Republicans and that is such bullshit, elitist as hell. You seem concerned with the shiny image of 1%er politicians while you make wise cracks about the working class. Well the working class just stood for him or he'd be heading to Chicago top of the year. Forget that if you want a repeat of 2010.

Thanks for lighting up the truth.

It's one of my favorites

http://www.theonion.com/articles/last-remaining-politician-must-rebuild-entire-gove,18384/

about this fiscal cliff nonsense. DeFazio has always been a progressive Democrat, and a great representative of the progressive values in my state.

could do: hold low-cost pizza and beer fundraisers for us ordinary folks. You didn't have to pay $1000 just to talk to him.

I didn't live in his district, but I made a point of attending his Portland-area beer and pizza fundraisers.

It's time to push all the chips to the center of the table and find out who's holdin' and who's foldin'.

He would've made a better Senator than Ron Wyden, in my opinion.
I remember when they were running against each other for that senate seat back in the 90s

...incredibly pleased to call him my representative and to have seen such a fine Democratic politician, after the style of Wayne Morse, walking through Eugene.

He is, as I have said many times, the real deal.

PB

work to do, such as naming a lot of public buildings and warships after Reagan, Dole, Bush, and maybe even Romney.

... nothing would make heads explode faster than if there was a full assault on St. Ronnie, exposing him and his policies for what they were. It is time to turn back the 30 years of lies.

He does not say "Fuck" and no heads were exploded in the production of the program !

Let all the rates expire and then introduce legislation to give tax releif to the middleclass and dare the Republicans to reject it...

In fact it will pass unanimously and we can go from there....

He wasn't at all fazed by Jansing's aggressive questioning.

Go Pete!

until next year.

What I am saying is that he should do just as he is, say the Senate has a bill where 100% will get a tax break on 250K or less, and 2% will have to pay a little more on amounts greater than 2%

Take it or leave it

we wait until the next congress is in session...

I love my Rep!

He's got a good stiff one. I like this guy.