way to avoid them is to not go near to them to begin with unless there is a bridge available.

Walk away President Obama and don't fall for their bluff. *pun intended*

And that shit about car-washing and dog-walking. That doesn't sound Presidential. It sounds servile. Which is amazingly uncharacteristic of the President, because I've seen him lifted off the ground in a bear-hug by one of his supporters and he still looked Presidential.

Indeed. Walk away, Mr. President.

PB

I swore it would be over for Obama as far as I'm concerned! He just can't do it. He is still being the enabler and he has no idea how to handle a bunch of bullies and continues trying to reach an agreement with unreasonable assholes! Go ahead Barack give it all away so I can just say fuck it!

cheerleaderish; but ... has it not occurred to DUers yet, that political statements made to news outlets are made for a reason; and in most political situations, the reason is to set/influence perception, and that perception has very little to do with the behind the scenes reality?

What a fucking load of fucking loads.

If it weren't for the fact that Obama already had a track record of rushing to put Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid on the Altar of Norquist for the Republicans, I wouldn't be so pissed. But he does.

The Republicans turned his sacrifice down last time.

That's the long and short of it. And he'll do anything to have them take his deal the second go-round.

PB

just to prove himself to the GOP.





The handwringing - same shiz, different year.

If anything that hyperbolic B.S. should telegraph the insincerity!

I'm pretty certain, you've said sh!t out your mouth you knew, and everyone that knew you, knew you didn't mean.

Of COURSE Obama will say he's doing everything possible to avoid going over the cliff. Then, when we have to go over it anyway, he'll be able to point the blame squarely where it belongs -- at the Rethugs.

It's almost like no one around here has EVER negotiated ANYTHING! No matter how many cards one holds, you gain only resistance when you publicly embarrass or attempt to force your opposition into public submission.

For those that want President Obama to publicly come out all "tough-guy, cowboy", here's a little assignment ... try it and report back how it works out for you.

Next time you and your SO are out in a social gathering ... Stand up, in the center of the room, and loudly demand that your SO go fetch you a drink or a cookie or anything. See how fast you get it ... and even if you eventually get the drink or the cookie (and it is not thrown in your face); see what happens the moment you get home.

that people here seem to expect the world of politics to operate differently than the world they spend everyday in.

"Look, I have offered 98% of the people a taxcut and asked the wealthy to pay just a little bit more. The Republicans are again threatening to not extend the debt limit if they do not get their way. We cannot abide with their extortion. I ask every citizen in America to not let the Congress do what it did last year when our credit rating was diminished.

Furthermore, we just went thru an election and the people spoke. I am doing my best to prevent us from going over the so-called "fiscal cliff". We will not permit our nation to be held hostage. If they cannot agree to this offer, then you know who to point your finger at . I have said my peace."

=========

But he will not say anything close to that.

You haven't been listening.

Maybe President Obama should throw in a couple M-Fs and summab!tches ... maybe then you will hear him!

on making sure that we get nothing from Washington but gridlock and hyperpartisanship. I realize many of you, and you may be one of them, are invested in gridlock, it's how many of you pay the bills (Cenk included), but it sucks for the rest of the country.

You are as ridiculous as any random teanutter if you can't recognize humor when you hear it, which would make you "disturbingly" humorless. You and Cenk should stop making our politics suck. Get a real job where someone actually gives a shit what you think.

Might I ask?

...want their Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid cut.

Tell it to the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees.

Tell it to the Service Employees International Union.

Tell it to the National Education Association (NEA).

Tell it to the AARP.

Tell it to the Business Roundtable.

Tell it to the the National Coalition to Preserve Social Security and Medicare.

Because none of them want this shit either.

PB

Maybe that should be a hint.

making our government suck! Earn your stripes someplace else. Every group you named is either a lobbying group, or some "activist" shellgame. You need to find a constructive way to earn your keep.

We've seen what the loss of common sense Republicans has done to cripple any kind of progress in Congress, and that seems to be your goal, only from "the left" (so you say). But, the good news of this past election is that people seem to have snapped out of it, even if temporarily. They seem to want to get things done, and the grandstanding by interest groups and lobbyists (left & right) may finally become a thing of the past.

If the results of this election signify anything, it's that the extremes of both parties were soundly rejected by the electorate. I mean, among all of them, they haven't quite managed to muster 2%.

Holy shit, what a remarkably revealing and batshit stupid thing to say. Literally everything you have posted in this thread is proof positive that you don't give a fuck about any issue, this is ALL about Obama to you. I thought I couldn't respect you any less but, surprise, you found a new low.

I'd wonder what I was doing wrong if some anti-liberal Dem-poser had anything positive to think about me on their way to climb in bed with the GOP.

I guess trying to protect Social Security and Medicare are now "Extreme" positions....along with Public Education and OSHA, and FEMA, NOAH, ending Wars, ........

elections. I'd call that "extremely rejected".

What exactly do you feel is so extreme with the idea we should start thinking Green. Granted a third Party has virtually no chance in a two Party system but does that invaidate their beliefs?

Sid

They totally make caving in seem like a bad thing. What bastards.

you confuse taking a "principled" stand with talking about taking a principled stand.

Really ... have you ever negotiated anything; it generally doesn't serve you well to project to on-lookers that you will not budge, it only is met with an equally intransient opposition, because NO ONE wants to appear to their constitutiency to be weak.

Boo fucking hoo for those who govern.

PB

designed to lead gullible people around by the nose.

The point?

...and walk dogs to the likes of Boehner and McConnel telegraphs as much weakness as his willingness to extend the sacrifices this afternoon/evening to the entire GOP in order to get them to sign on.

PB

It's bizarre how some consistently look for this President to meet their LOWEST expectations despite what he accomplishes in the face of relentless opposition from ALL angles.

despite evidence of results?

to avoid going over the cliff. Then, when we go over it anyway, it will clearly be the other side's fault.

Sid

Just sayin'.

I'll be damned if I'm going to ignore someone grinding my ass into sausage.

Obama knows that Republicans, by contrast, will have to get some significant spending concessions in order to sign off on tax increases and may resist a debt limit bump. If they don’t get real cuts, Republicans, including many key senators up for reelection in 2014, face increased prospects of bitter primary challenges. A deal with a small rate increase coupled with spending cuts would be much easier to sell to conservative constituents as an act of fiscal necessity.
So the president is aware that he, along with Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and others, will have to do a strong sales job inside their party on some immediate spending trims along with a commitment to further reform.
One senior Democrat close to the White House said that despite current posturing, which this person said was more about laying down initial markers than setting absolute bottom lines, the party will eventually rally behind the president. “Trust me, at the end of this it’s not going to be our people that are the problem,” this person said.

Let's begin our work with where we agree," the president said, noting the Senate has passed the measure and that both parties agree on holding down rates for the majority of taxpayers. "If we can get a few House Republicans to agree as well, I'll sign this bill as soon as the House sends it my way."
To applause from the White House audience that included those described by organizers as middle-class Americans, the president held up a pen to demonstrate his willingness to sign the law as soon as it reaches his desk.

PB

I'll need Social Security and Medicare just as much as any other middle classer.

Thats not what Obama is saying here at all. You are purposefully skewing the context and you KNOW it.

But no.

Cribbing one quote and calling him weak and submissive? This OP is crap.

of the debt gangs at each turn.

The TeaPubliKlans had a proposal moving for a binding deficit commission and instead of fighting the frame he buys in lock, stock, and barrel and the TeaPubliKlan co-sponsors drop off which killed it.
His response was not to let it go and move forward with climbing out of the hole but to actually push the issue with another commission with corporate fat cats and anti-safety net radicals chaired by the vile and hateful Simpson and Turd Way henchman Bowles.

It of course came to no resolution but still has become the framework for subsequent conversation.

Then we have the gangs that failed eventually into the current debacle after the stupid debt ceiling fiasco.
Mixed in with extending the toxic Bush tax cuts in another hostage situation.

I guess it depends on how you define trust. If you mean doing what I expect then I do trust that and I'm just not down. If you mean trust to do the right thing then I so no justification for such and plenty to the contrary.

So far that has not happened yet, and the unions are standing strong for the president's approach.

...order to protect Social Security/Medicare/aid from being pissed away on a bad deal.

See here, from just a few hours ago:
Obama, GOP Mount 'Fiscal Cliff' Campaign Blitz

And it would be pointless for me to try and explain it to you because you wouldn't be able to understand anyway.

Does it have to be a multiple of 10 or something before it counts?



PB

I think the president might be trying to appear more open to entitlement reform than he really is so that he can blame the Republicans if they fail to make a deal by the end of the year. If he comes out now and says "no entitlement reform" he looks unreasonable. Like you said, if he actually looked like he was about to cave I think labor (and the AARP) would be out sounding the alarm.

It might be better to wait until there are a few more specifics before freaking out over a few comments to a newspaper.

right?

jsut like you did with the President's words. ciao.

Nice guy and smart as hell...but he doesn't strike me as a decent poker player and probably gets talked into the undercoat when he buys a car. For someone to come out of Chicago ward politics, he doesn't have much of the political knife-fighter in him and he seems to trust bad people to have good intentions. Why else negotiate in good faith with Boehner twice after he tried to f**k you once? Even Reid took the hint when McConnell reneged on the filibuster deal.

Michelle Obama on the other hand is clearly shrewd beyond measure.

MSM sucks

to emphasize how desperate you are to cut a deal with another party? Especially when you're in a strong position. Especially when there's no good reason to be desperate. Sorry. There's no way someone that experienced could be that naive. There's no way someone that smart could be that stupid. There's no way a president coming off that kind of a reelection victory could be that weak kneed.

This is pure theater.

that at one time Obama offered the other side a deal with only 1 part new revenue and 10 parts cuts -- and they said no to even that. People here were screaming about Obama making that offer, but he knew they'd never take it. He just did it to demonstrate how crazy they are.

And now, he's saying that he'll do whatever he can to avoid going over the cliff -- so they'll be the ones blamed when it happens.

Look - Obama is president, and by now, we should know he's going to compromise and try to work with the other side, as least that's the public presentation. Of course he's going to say that.

I get so tired of these attack posts.

as being told to stfu and accept it from the My President Right or Wrong crowd.

In fact the more Obama smears included the more applause they get.

If the President, Dick Durbin, David Plouffe and co. are hell-bent on giving away the farm to do it, I'm going to complain all the way.



PB

I'm just saying that jumping the gun and calling Obama "weak" at this point rubs me the wrong way. I'm not saying we shouldn't question the information we're given but save the hysteria. If it turns out you're right, then by all means fire away.

They worry more about gamesmanship than people. The President is concerned about the well being of people - even though they chose a Republican dominated House.

And of course you're going to be selective about which sentences you pay attention to.

That news about President Obama winning that election kinda put the kibosh on bashing for a couple of weeks, you know. Time to fire it up again.