...here!

...here again.

I don't always agree with Greenwald but he is scrupulously consistent. If the Bush Administration had subjected Manning to the torture that the Obama Administration has, Greenwald would have been every bit as critical of them.

That kind of consistency is rare and admirable. If it's wrong with "they" do it, it's just as wrong when "we" do it. It absolutely turns my stomach to read the justifications for things that Bush would have been blasted for doing.

Should the Obama Administration not be held to the same standard here that the Bush Administration was? I think it should. No, it's not as cathartic or satisfying to criticize someone you voted for and donated lots of money to. But it sure beats turning yourself into a pretzel.

Hubby and I have always supported Obama, but I do not approve of his education policies.

I generated some intense dislike (and even calls for my head) from the "he can do know wrong" crowd. Don't let them intimidate you. Many here agree with you.

I agree almost completely with his criticisms of Obama and others.

I think what Obama has done on the foreign policy front, while admittedly no different than what any other Democrat would do, is reprehensible. And he needs more critics like Greenwald, not fewer.

And when it comes to whistleblowers, Obama has done an about-face in his actions when compared to his pre-election rhetoric. Once could argue that any politician would do so. This is why I never bought completely into the Obama hype. I knew he was a skillful politician first and foremost and not worthy of the adulation so many have shown.

These are many reasons why I am no longer a registered Democrat. I am officially unaffiliated and will remain so. I held my nose and voted for Obama (I'm in NC, where it actually mattered for once), but I'm happy not to have to do so again.

You are a DU MVP.

So it's mutual.

We missed you

I couldn't agree with you more re- all of the above.

Missed your posts. Greenwald's not perfect, no one is. But he deserves better at a forum where we are supposed to be thinkers.

Good to see you.

Missed you and very glad to see you here again.

So glad you're back!

I agree that the treatment of Manning has been far too cruel and I think he did what he did for the reasons he said he did.

And I thought the Nuremberg principles called upon soldiers to speak out about war crimes.

And I agree with Greenwald that it has been disturbing to see all the vitriol heaped upon Manning while Dick Cheney has actually been interviewed on TV and the other war criminals have been consulted for their opinions on current events,

and the Wall Street criminals have been allowed to carry on and even lecture us now about how the poor must sacrifice more and more.

Esp. about Dick Cheney and the Wall Street criminals. There should be accountability for everyone.

That's what I find mystifying . . . that otherwise intelligent people would have such a blind spot.

I've always enjoyed your posts, and I've missed them!

been a long time. Missed your work.

It's okay to commit massive atrocities on Iraqis (also causing them to rise up in an insurgency and thus creating enemies you didn't actually have before).

It's not okay to expose these violations of international law and any sense of universal morality, against the rules of the criminal governments committing the crimes.

Manning of course served humanity - and his country - more than any of the other US-led invaders of Iraq.

to get back to the real issues. Education is one of the biggest as I see it and your posts are sorely missed.

I too am mystified by the many teachers and educators who have a gaping blind spot. Perhaps the long hard 40 year campaign against teachers that has reduced both respect and renumeration has taken its toll on the overall quality of people who can survive in the field.

now that the electioneering is over perhaps it will be more acceptable to speak the truth.

welcome back!

Thanks for the post.

It's always great to see another Dean Believer!

People deserve to hear this stuff, especially those who disagree. The last thing we need are more left gate keepers!

are no longer here. Greenwald is one of the most consistent defenders of human rights and a very thorough writer. He tells the truth and if that bothers anyone, which it definitely did when Bush was president, that is unfortunate. The way to avoid that is to do what is right.

He is more widely read now than ever and I wish there were more reporters like him.

The war on teachers and the theft of our education funds for private profit is reprehensible.

Thank you for all you do to expose this issue. The media totally ignores it.

You write from the heart & the intellect - a wonderful, and yet difficult combination to put together. I have much respect for that. So, again, I am really happy to see you.

Those are possible the nicest words I have heard. Thank you.

and don't go away again.

Rec

Very true. They have demoralized teachers.

that's all i got

We missed you. The old warriors ^raises hand^ are still here, most of us anyway, and we STILL have your back -- as we always have.

A very long time. Don't know about you but this "old warrior" is feeling her age about now.

improves DU3 by a wide margin.

Personally, I've never had a problem with Greenwald. I agree with him frequently.

I'm a left/liberal focused on issues, not party. AND I'm a teacher, and have experienced first hand what Democratic policies are doing to public education and my profession.

I, too, thought I was pretty moderate when I got to DU a decade ago. While I haven't changed, I'm now too left/liberal for the site, and spend much less time here than I used to.

Anxiety is being felt now even in this ultra-conservative area in Florida. Teachers are wanting to speak out but fearful of how they will be evaluated.

Welcome back. I also feel the seem away. The Democratic party no longer has any fight in it, plenty of bitching and moaning, but no fight.

It is good to see you jumping into the fray. Your postings have been sorely missed.

How's the weather there?

Politicians, legal experts and progressive activists grappled with Republican abuses of power at the third annual netroots convention on Friday, debating how an Obama Administration might restore the rule of law. Cass Sunstein, an adviser to Barack Obama from the University of Chicago Law School, cautioned against prosecuting criminal conduct from the current Administration. Prosecuting government officials risks a "cycle" of criminalizing public service, he argued, and Democrats should avoid replicating retributive efforts like the impeachment of President Clinton--or even the "slight appearance" of it. Update: Sunstein emailed to emphasize that he also said and believes that "egregious crimes should not be ignored."

that an Obama advisor would liken the Clinton impeachment to a vast conspiracy of lies to invade Iraq, in any way.

Thanks for the post.

Always appreciate your posts.

--imm

the same back to you.

I missed you terribly the last year. Your posts on education were the best. Don't you dare leave again, LOL!

I am one of a few still posting at the old DU. Will until they shut it down I guess.

I'm new and have appreciated much of the DU, but I am/was a "little old lady in tennis shoes" who was at the MLK civil rights marches and, Peace protests in Washington, arrested in Chicago for protesting the Vietnam War, sitdowns at universities, protests to protect women's rights and Roe v Wade, Earth Day, boycotts for immigrant rights, 2008 and 2012 rallies for Obama in Denver, marched with teachers on strike, worked for gay rights, housing,etc. My point being that I agree with you that Democrats/liberals are not standing up as strongly as we once did, especially against war, the Patriot Act, the military/private contract "security", allowing imprisonment without trial, torture, invading countries, the killing of our planet by Big Oil and "energy needs", buying elections, destroying unions, settling for health care and education "for some", and letting the Ayn Rand rightwing bigots gain power and control and wage war against the have-nots. It's not the good ole' days I miss (we were never the greatest generation) but those like King and Mandela who spoke truth to power even from prison and the young people who really believed if we gave peace and love a chance we could make a difference.

Love your description of yourself:

"a "little old lady in tennis shoes" who was at the MLK civil rights marches and, Peace protests in Washington, arrested in Chicago for protesting the Vietnam War, sitdowns at universities, protests to protect women's rights and Roe v Wade"

As I look back, I wish I had done those things. But our very conservative area of FL was far too rigid for anyone of us to consider such protests. Still that way today. We had anti-Iraq war rallies here in 2002-early 2003.....and they brought lots of attention. Much of it unpleasant.

Hey, my dad had to fight his fellow Southern Baptist deacons so I could go see Elvis come to town. But he did fight them and won.

supposedly "underground" site.

Look, Pvt. Manning is enlisted in the US Army and he violated a signed non-disclose agreement, so he knew he was in for a ton of Officially Issued US S--t to fall on his head. He martyred himself, as surely as if he threw himself on a hand grenade. But, Assange at least has some expectation of protection as a journalist which in the US, at least, used to carry some First Amendment Protection. Apparently, not anymore.

That there's more than a handful of devoted, long-term Assange haters and a vocal minority here who also seem committed to whipping up suspicion against whistleblowers, more broadly, tells me that: a) this isn't isolated or unorganized; 2) its issue management; and 3) this Board is viewed as having some importance, primarily because of it high Google rank positioning.

Particularly:

Don't apologize for a damn thing to those Turd Wayers. They need to made to either sit in the corner with a dunce cap or go crawling back to the TeaPubliKlans whose ideology they value so deeply.

Amoral gasbags and game players.

...and happy to see you!
DU has lost too many of the Best & the Brightest.





[font color=firebrick size=3][center]"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone[/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]

[font size=5 color=firebrick]Solidarity![/font]

Guess what. I just checked out my "transparency" page. In the short time I've been here I have 3 ignoring me and 3 blocking me from sending a pm.

How about that? Didn't take long.

Good to see you.

I had given up on posting here for many of the reasons Mad Floridian mentioned.

Good to see some familiar faces for a change.

K&R

Perhaps it's time to hold some Feet to the Fire.

I was just thinking of you earlier this week.

Welcome back!



You have been missed.

Appreciate the kind words so much.

keep up the great work.

...... it is indeed good to see your name attached to an OP again.

We need more liberal voices on DU. We need to drag the 'center' of the dialogue back to left, both here and nationally!

I will add the disclaimer that there is (and should be) a broad range of opinions among those who self-identify as Liberal or Progressive. The internet should be a forum to allow as many voices as possible to be heard. I'm glad yours is among those again!

Because you tell it so well - so straight - so true.

You're always welcome to me.

I try to do that, but I don't always succeed. Kind words.

You say ''Before I post I usually do a search to determine the atmosphere on a particular topic. Since I am just starting to post here again after a year, I try not to post stuff to cause anger."

As long as your post is not intended to simply cause anger or to stir the pot,then if by telling the truth as you see it in order to call out wrong doing feel free to STIR the pot ALL you want...

I certainly have been called a traitor and a lot of other names for my defense of Manning and Assange.

While Manning knew what he was getting into,it does not justify our governments mistreatment of an individual!!

EVER!!!

And the fact that more individuals say "well as long as it's not me being mistreated" then it's OK!!scares the HELL out of me!!!

How many Germans said that and then looked the other way???

I was cautious in beginning to post at this forum for reasons that date back last year. Some anonymous stuff that was disturbing, lots of it.

Don't worry, I will do my share of irritating people. Give me time.

We're in a real battle. Your voice is needed here.

but i did put the hammer down this morning when someone said we should look to duncan as an example of a community organizer.....ya.

4 more years of Arne will be the end of public schools, I fear.

Thanks for sharing.

Where have you been?

I have been posting around, mainly at Daily Kos and Twitter. And at the old DU as well.

Been a long time, good to see you. Ran across some old Dean Campaign stuff, decided it was past time to get rid of it. That was quite a time.

His previous points on Manning's detention reflected his treatment at the Marine brig at Quantico.

Manning was removed to Leveanworth in April 2011.

Here is an article that is critical of Manning's detention but seems much more factual and does not seem to indicate that the harsh treatment that Greenwald pointed out before continued past that time.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/08/general-manning-jail-treatment/

Greenwalds' lavish praise of Manning, his reflexive hatred of Obama and his willingness to blur the facts of the case show that he is not an objective presenter of facts, even though sometimes his information is correct and helpful.

On another point the treatment of Manning shows the value of the mission of the ICRC. The International Committee of the Red Cross (which is completely different from national red cross societies) has a specific mission that includes specifically visiting prisoners, getting facts and reporting the facts directly to the head of state so that the heads of state can get an objective picture on how prisoners are being treated.

We should, of course, insist on the fair treatment of all prisoners everywhere, especially if they are involved in crimes related to war, and the best way to ensure that is to support the ICRC.

http://www.icrc.org/eng/what-we-do/visiting-detainees/overview-visiting-detainees.htm

Welcome back (or should I say welcome on moving from DU2).

To twitter to Daily Kos, et al. I have several places that link to my journal at the old DU....so it is really about keeping that going.

Thanks for the dubious welcome.

I have many mixed feelings about what Manning did. I have no mixed feelings when Democratic strategists laughingly mock any form of torture. Joy Reid did that. I resent it. We should never laugh at any kind of torture.

I've been gone for sometime as well, on the never-ending quest for personal and familial balance.

That's an area that's way out of my realm of experience & expertise, so I've relied in the past on your posts to inform me and be a jumping off point for following your links and learning more. I started/head a couple of groups of progressives who simply share news stories, and your links and the information you imparted has filled many pages of information that was shared in an attempt to educate other progressives who don't belong to DU. Boy did I miss you at times when education issues arose and I wanted a more informed voice to fill out what I perceived as gaping holes in the information I was getting! I came here and looked for you and, having missed your goodbye post, admit to frustration that I couldn't find your guiding wisdom on those issues! (How's that for a spoiled statement!? ) So here is a huge welcome back hug from an undeclared admirer!

Now, all of that said, I also agree 100% with your post about Greenwald, Manning, Pres. Obama & DU. K&R

Last edited Sat Dec 1, 2012, 11:33 PM - Edit history (1)

that was one of the nicest things anyone said to me. Warmed my heart.

People are not able to hear from the regular news sources what is really going on in education. Only a few bloggers even bother anymore.

I remember when the media flooded our minds with all the weapons of destruction in Iraq when it wasn't true at all. They have their lines of propaganda, and often the truth doesn't matter.

Many teachers are really just understanding that no matter how good they are...it just doesn't matter. The reformers have their agenda, they have the money, they have the media.

back

For the Record Dan Kildee a Democratic Representative from Michigan's 5th district supports school teachers and public education. Secondly i just started to follow you on twitter. Keep up the good work.

Pop me a DM at twitter so I know who to follow back. I did follow Dan Kildee because of his stance. Can't tell if that is who you are. Twitter names are different than here often.

Thanks for the post.

Things just seem different.

I have missed your posts so much. When I have the time, I have been going back to the old DU to see what you were writing about. I hope you stay. I always looked forward to your well researched and well written and thoughtful posts!

Thank you for posting this and for your comments.

Going to read the piece now. I don't have to agree (although I generally do with Greenwald) in order to learn from it.

I didn't want to read all the personal attacks towards me and the author from AlterNet.

On any topic.

That "random appearance" is special.