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arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
Sat Dec 8, 2012, 02:39 PM Dec 2012

Raise Capital Gains Tax Rates if You Want Fairness in the System

Tax them like ordinary earned income. It seems incredibly unfair to me that even a wealthy person who actually does run a business and makes payrolls and creates jobs, etc should be taxed on her personal income at a higher rate than someone who shuffles money around, gambling on stocks.

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Raise Capital Gains Tax Rates if You Want Fairness in the System (Original Post) arely staircase Dec 2012 OP
Money shuffling JEFF9K Dec 2012 #1
Technically that is the difference between long term and short term gains still_one Dec 2012 #3
Fine for stocks, but what about a person who has lived in their house for 30 years, and sells it to still_one Dec 2012 #2
oh i'm sure i could be convinced of the fairness arely staircase Dec 2012 #4
Of course, but the question is what would Congress do, especially in this environment Actually, I still_one Dec 2012 #5
The exemption has to be crafted in a way to prevent abuse. bluestate10 Dec 2012 #22
Agreed, but unfortunately nothing is ever straight forward, and that was my suggestion still_one Dec 2012 #32
Why Stop At A House... KharmaTrain Dec 2012 #7
Retirement income is 100% tax sheltered already. I don't see that being changed. nt bluestate10 Dec 2012 #18
Not All Funds Are Sheltered... KharmaTrain Dec 2012 #21
Capital Gains shouldn't be higher than 20%. Loopholes that allow the wealthy to slide must bluestate10 Dec 2012 #23
There's Your Rub... KharmaTrain Dec 2012 #25
But the way the loopholes creep in is when we start making complications. Squinch Dec 2012 #27
There is already an exemption for your primary residence. ToxMarz Dec 2012 #10
And that's profit, not sale price. So if you sell for 500,000 but paid 300,000, no cap gains tax Squinch Dec 2012 #28
There should be lower rates depending on time held. You shouldn't be taxed on inflation gains. dkf Dec 2012 #6
i am primarily talking about short term capital gains arely staircase Dec 2012 #8
Short term gains are taxed at ordinary income. dkf Dec 2012 #9
That is correct. The problem are long term Cap Gains, which are taxed at 15%. nt bluestate10 Dec 2012 #13
What if you've been holding it for years and the gains have only kept up with inflation? dkf Dec 2012 #14
Lets get real, most of the concerns for almost everyone are easily carved out and TheKentuckian Dec 2012 #19
you are right arely staircase Dec 2012 #15
The duration that as asset is held for lower tax rates should be increased and the rate taxed bluestate10 Dec 2012 #16
I've got a better idea RomneyLies Dec 2012 #11
I am ok with raising the Capital Gains tax rates while also raising the rate on high earners. nt bluestate10 Dec 2012 #12
There should be exemptions though Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #17
This message was self-deleted by its author Mosby Dec 2012 #20
Eliminate it entirely Prophet 451 Dec 2012 #24
The rich have convinced everyone that capital grains is double taxation liberal N proud Dec 2012 #26
you wanna really burn them? make them mark-to-market at the end of each year! unblock Dec 2012 #29
Tax Every Market Trade, Too mckara Dec 2012 #30
Agreed abelenkpe Dec 2012 #31
That would hurt most Democrats in Congress. Good luck with that. nm rhett o rick Dec 2012 #33

still_one

(92,433 posts)
2. Fine for stocks, but what about a person who has lived in their house for 30 years, and sells it to
Sat Dec 8, 2012, 02:43 PM
Dec 2012

live off the capital gains in their retirement, should that be included also?

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
4. oh i'm sure i could be convinced of the fairness
Sat Dec 8, 2012, 02:46 PM
Dec 2012

of carving out a selling of homestead exemption of some sort. non-homestead investent property i would not exempt.

still_one

(92,433 posts)
5. Of course, but the question is what would Congress do, especially in this environment Actually, I
Sat Dec 8, 2012, 02:50 PM
Dec 2012

agree for stocks or options they should be taxed at a regular rate, and yes it would effect me, but you are correct, it is another source of income which does nothing to provide jobs, at least on the secondary market

bluestate10

(10,942 posts)
22. The exemption has to be crafted in a way to prevent abuse.
Sat Dec 8, 2012, 03:51 PM
Dec 2012

Restrictions on property status must be implemented to prevent children from transferring valuable assets to their parents to avoid taxes.

KharmaTrain

(31,706 posts)
7. Why Stop At A House...
Sat Dec 8, 2012, 02:55 PM
Dec 2012

...there are some of us who invested long term...bought into various funds and IRAs and either had to put money away or had it garnished from paychecks. Should those capital gains be taxed at a higher rate than your house? Sadly I know too many people who saw their household investment sink when the housing market went bust but their investments rebounded back to where it was prior to the '08 crash.

Why not just look at interest as income and charge it accordingly...the game here is fairness not retribution...

KharmaTrain

(31,706 posts)
21. Not All Funds Are Sheltered...
Sat Dec 8, 2012, 03:45 PM
Dec 2012

...and it's been a shock to the system to those who thought their IRAs were fully tax exempt...but found out that taxes were still due. Also there are many, such as my late parents, who didn't have access to company plans and invested privately...stocks, mutual funds, et al, that surely aren't tax exempt. Raising capital gains from 15 to 35 percent could be a significant bite to those who rely upon that income to supplement their SS.

KharmaTrain

(31,706 posts)
25. There's Your Rub...
Sat Dec 8, 2012, 04:34 PM
Dec 2012

Finding and closing them. I'm all but certain after all deductions and other bookkeeping tricks were applied Willard paid ZERO in taxes for most of the past 20 years. The fact he admitted to 14% (and even that's below just the plain CG rate) told me this had to be the case. That said, I'm all for a progressive taxation on gains...just like income...the more you earn the higher rate you pay. Thus, someone who earns $50k a year won't pay the same as someone who amasses $5 million. Flat rates always hurt those on the lower end of the scale and is vulnerable to "bracket creep" due to inflation.

Cheers...

Squinch

(51,025 posts)
27. But the way the loopholes creep in is when we start making complications.
Sat Dec 8, 2012, 04:54 PM
Dec 2012

So maybe something simple like: if all income and gains = x, you pay y. If income + gains = x+5, you pay y +5.

Flat rates are ridiculously unfair to the poor. But from the regressive tax place we are standing in, even a flat rate would be better.
(NOT THAT I'M ADVOCATING THAT! Because like I said, they are ridiculously unfair. It's just that where we are now is even more ridiculous and unfair.)

ToxMarz

(2,169 posts)
10. There is already an exemption for your primary residence.
Sat Dec 8, 2012, 03:00 PM
Dec 2012

$250,000 ($500,000 for married) is exempt from capital gains tax

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
8. i am primarily talking about short term capital gains
Sat Dec 8, 2012, 02:58 PM
Dec 2012

that is what i mean by shuffling money around. right now that is 15% and should be progressively taxed at the same rate as any other income. longt erm gains (currently 5%) should arguably be lower than short term gains because they are actual investments that stay in a company and creat jobs, make payrolls, etc. i am agnostic on that really.

 

dkf

(37,305 posts)
14. What if you've been holding it for years and the gains have only kept up with inflation?
Sat Dec 8, 2012, 03:11 PM
Dec 2012

What should your tax rate be on something which basically did not appreciate?

TheKentuckian

(25,029 posts)
19. Lets get real, most of the concerns for almost everyone are easily carved out and
Sat Dec 8, 2012, 03:35 PM
Dec 2012

in some cases already are like primary residence.

Same may be true for retirement returns.

In any event, floors can be put in to give regular folks protection while making sure the predator class isn't running away with all the fruits of our productivity and at least tapping the brakes on the disparity with labor.

bluestate10

(10,942 posts)
16. The duration that as asset is held for lower tax rates should be increased and the rate taxed
Sat Dec 8, 2012, 03:25 PM
Dec 2012

should be increased. The hold period should be increased to 7 years. The reason for 7 years is that most invested capital requires 3-6 years to produce desired objectives. The Gains tax rate at 7 years should increase from the current 15% to 18-20%, this would still be well below income tax rates for the great majority of people that collect Capital Gains income. No adjustments should be made to how Capital Losses are handled, but loopholes that allow abuse of Capital Loss should be closed, if this is done legitimate business activity which didn't create profit can be handled properly.

 

RomneyLies

(3,333 posts)
11. I've got a better idea
Sat Dec 8, 2012, 03:02 PM
Dec 2012

Strike the words "capital gains" from the tax code and treat it like what it is, income.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
17. There should be exemptions though
Sat Dec 8, 2012, 03:28 PM
Dec 2012

income from selling a house, for instance, is a capital gain; taxing that at income rates would unfairly penalise the middle class.

Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
24. Eliminate it entirely
Sat Dec 8, 2012, 03:58 PM
Dec 2012

Income is income, it should all be taxed at the same rate. Actually, I'll make one exception: If you sell your only house for the purposes of buying another house, that's exempt.

liberal N proud

(60,346 posts)
26. The rich have convinced everyone that capital grains is double taxation
Sat Dec 8, 2012, 04:38 PM
Dec 2012

And no one has bothered to think that through.

Yes we should raise capital gains!


unblock

(52,345 posts)
29. you wanna really burn them? make them mark-to-market at the end of each year!
Sat Dec 8, 2012, 05:07 PM
Dec 2012

right now, capital gains are taxed only when the transaction is closed.

if you bought microsoft when it went ipo in 1986, and have been continuously holding those shares, you've only paid taxes on the dividends. the shares themselves represent an enormous gain, but you don't pay taxes until you sell.

this seems reasonable enough for capital investments that are difficult to value from year to year, such as specific works of art, or many private companies. but if there's a public market for equity that gives you a value every millisecond, it seems silly not to use that information.

the only wrinkle i'd add is that right now, capital losses can only offset ordinary income up to $3,000. i'd eliminate that so people come out whole if they gain big one year but lose it the next (or vice versa).

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