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Stinky The Clown

(67,818 posts)
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:43 AM Dec 2012

Dear Misters Simpson and Bowles: Entitlements are not the biggest costs we face

The biggest costs we face are in the five sided war palace. By their own admission, there's spending there that even THEY don't want or need.

Yet, here they are, Simpson doing his genial clown act, Bowles doing his best Bud Abbot. Bob Shitfear yukking it up.

Thanks, Face The Nation, for anther week of faithful water carrying.

As to the top tax rates . . . why the Clinton rates? Why not use a repubican tax model? How about the Eisenhower rates?

Feh . . . .

17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Dear Misters Simpson and Bowles: Entitlements are not the biggest costs we face (Original Post) Stinky The Clown Dec 2012 OP
Defense is slightly less than Social Security Recursion Dec 2012 #1
That olive green 16.13% slice called UE/welfare/mandatory spending banned from Kos Dec 2012 #4
A big chunk is farm subsidies and student loan subsidies Recursion Dec 2012 #7
STOP! STOP! STOP! Correct me if wrong, but Social Security is paid for by contributions from.... Raster Dec 2012 #6
Social Security is an entitlement; I don't get why people try to change the meaning of that word Recursion Dec 2012 #8
Yes, but the funds which are ONLY managed by the government, as you say, have their own.... Raster Dec 2012 #11
Huh? The Trust Fund is government property, and the SSA is a government agency Recursion Dec 2012 #12
And the federal government manages it well: 1% overhead - insurance companies take note byeya Dec 2012 #13
This graph looks at defense very narrowly. Throw in Veterans Affairs, Homeland Security ... Scuba Dec 2012 #9
Well, VA is "entitlement" spending too so it should count on both "sides". And DHS includes... Recursion Dec 2012 #10
Are you factoring the costs of the wars? and most of the Dept of Energy is defense related byeya Dec 2012 #14
Yes, the wars have been "on the books" since I think 2008 Recursion Dec 2012 #16
If we can't afford to educate our children, to tend to our sick or care for our elderly ... Scuba Dec 2012 #15
Simpson and Bowles failed to discharge their duties: Their report was not only late byeya Dec 2012 #2
Bush gave tax cuts to his rich buddies Frances Dec 2012 #3
how about we hear some about Mel Dec 2012 #5
I had to turn that shit off hootinholler Dec 2012 #17

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
1. Defense is slightly less than Social Security
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:48 AM
Dec 2012

And significantly less than all entitlements. So, just as a factual matter, no.

(Note that the VA is both "defense" and "entitlement", so it's not clear which side of the ledger it should be on.)

 

banned from Kos

(4,017 posts)
4. That olive green 16.13% slice called UE/welfare/mandatory spending
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:07 PM
Dec 2012

leaves some questions.

What is it?

Food stamps are $75 billion - that is 2% of the budget.

TANF is 1%.

What is the other 13% (or 1300 basis points)?

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
7. A big chunk is farm subsidies and student loan subsidies
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:17 PM
Dec 2012

Also Government employee pensions, Disability, railroad employee pensions, TriCare, Universal Service Fund (the "Obama phones" conservatives freak out about despite the fact that the program was created under the GWB administration) and SSI

Raster

(20,998 posts)
6. STOP! STOP! STOP! Correct me if wrong, but Social Security is paid for by contributions from....
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:16 PM
Dec 2012

...individual persons and their employers. Everything else in your illustration is paid for out of the federal budget by taxes. Social Security is NOT AN ENTITLEMENT. Social Security is a type of annuity or insurance that WE THE PEOPLE INDEPENDENTLY FUND. Social Security is NOT a government expense.

The only reason anyone gets away with even alluding to Social Security as a government expense, is that the federal government manages the program. Federal monies DO NOT go into Social Security. The federal government, however, borrows from the Social Security piggybank at every turn.

When we talk about cutting the "Social Security entitlement," what we are really talking about is a government that is attempting to welsh on it's I.O.U.s.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
8. Social Security is an entitlement; I don't get why people try to change the meaning of that word
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:18 PM
Dec 2012
Social Security is NOT a government expense.

Yes, it is. It is definitely a government expense. The fact that it has a dedicated revenue stream doesn't change the fact that the money comes out of the treasury.

Raster

(20,998 posts)
11. Yes, but the funds which are ONLY managed by the government, as you say, have their own....
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:41 PM
Dec 2012

...dedicated revenue source and dedicated purpose. The checks may come from the U.S. Treasury, but the funds come from the Social Security Trust Fund, which is not owned by the U.S. Government. The Social Security Trust Fund is OURS, the people's. We ALLOW the government to manage the fund for us. And the monies the fund contains are OURS, not the federal government's.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
12. Huh? The Trust Fund is government property, and the SSA is a government agency
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:44 PM
Dec 2012

The trust fund is a way to use excess payroll levy monies to keep the cost of borrowing down by having a ready purchaser of Treasury bonds. And it's a way, starting a few years from now, to borrow money to pay off our Social Security obligations without adding to the net national debt (we can borrow dollar-for-dollar to redeem the 3 trillion in bonds in the trust fund without making the total debt go up). It's not a savings account of any sort, though I recognize that it sometimes gets talked about that way. Social Security is a transfer system, not a retirement account.

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
9. This graph looks at defense very narrowly. Throw in Veterans Affairs, Homeland Security ...
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:27 PM
Dec 2012

... etc. and your assertion that "defense" isn't the biggest is no longer true.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
10. Well, VA is "entitlement" spending too so it should count on both "sides". And DHS includes...
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:30 PM
Dec 2012

...a lot of law enforcement (Secret Service, Coast Guard, etc.)

But defense is still significantly less than "entitlements". Discretionary spending in general is significantly lower than mandatory spending, and unlike discretionary spending we have some say over what mandatory spending in the future will be.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
16. Yes, the wars have been "on the books" since I think 2008
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:56 PM
Dec 2012

Even if we give all of DHS and DOE to "defense", that's 1950 basis points, for a total of 20.64% for defense as a whole, compared to 19.63% for SS and 56.74% for all mandatory non-interest (aka "entitlement&quot spending.

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
15. If we can't afford to educate our children, to tend to our sick or care for our elderly ...
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:51 PM
Dec 2012

... just what is it that the defense budget defending?

 

byeya

(2,842 posts)
2. Simpson and Bowles failed to discharge their duties: Their report was not only late
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:50 AM
Dec 2012

it was voted down.

There is no Simpson Bowles report - never has been.

Bowles is on the Boards of Directors of many high profile corps and Simpson, well let's just say he's seen his better days(and they were none too good).

So why are these august personages invited on tv shows? They are failures at their own commission and other than that, they are not of national importance on their own.

And, I'd like to add: fuck'em both - may they dry up and blow away.

Frances

(8,547 posts)
3. Bush gave tax cuts to his rich buddies
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 11:55 AM
Dec 2012

and contracts for the Iraq war to his and Dick Cheney's buddies. The companies were war profiteers.

But while privatizing the companies' profits from Iraq, the Republicans want to socialize the costs by making social security and medicare beneficiaries pay for that waste!

Mel

(2,835 posts)
5. how about we hear some about
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 12:12 PM
Dec 2012

The Shock Doctrine from Naomi Klein? hummmm? Me thinks the corporatista' media that carries the water won't do that.

How about some Naomi on 'Face the Nation'? I am sick of hearing about the supposed 'fiscal cliff' they aren't serious it's all about what more they can steal from we the little people.



I am all for the Eisenhower rates oh but the media are not going to ever ask that question. Or how about we lower the retirement age not raise it!

hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
17. I had to turn that shit off
Sun Dec 9, 2012, 01:11 PM
Dec 2012

I've found the Richard Hammond's Crash Course and the Top Gear countdown is much better for my blood pressure.

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