progressives want to carry all the crap forward from the 1900's, liberals slap that crap down.

That's my opinion. So I voted "Other," meaning "Both."

so I will not argue it

on edit: never mind i said i would not argue

Maybe when those trying to form unions were bloodied and/or killed? Women's right to vote? Civil rights act? OSHA for worker safety? Environmental laws? Women's right to control their own bodies? 40 hour work week with overtime over 40? Childrens labor laws? That's enough for now. Just checking. Awaiting your reply. Thank you.

Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, education, union jobs, living wages, universal health care, infrastructure, environment. The reason we don't have the money to fully fund all of these is because of corporate America and I say it is time to take the money back so we can finally fully fund these liberal social contracts.

Is because joe the average cannot buy his way into either party.


I am a bit skimped on $45k for a cheap dinner with the president, you?

(I am sure i stole that from somehwere, but cannot attribute it atm)

love to rub it in the faces of the rightwing assholes here in Texas

is always permissable..but only after who picks up the check is determined

I kid, but reminds me of many a dinner!

reminds me of a company outing where one person from texas came back and complained about all the graffiti on the men's room wall adverting for companionship of the same sex....my reply was, "I did not know there were that many texans about"

I honestly don't know what the difference is supposed to be between a "Liberal" and a "Progressive". Nor do I care.

Be what you are mate, and screw the labels.

That I don't share. Historically, liberalism emerged as the political corollary of capitalism. I'm now middle-aged and more moderate than I once was, so I'm reconciled to capitalism. But I'm not sufficiently enamored with it to identify myself as liberal if other options are available. I generally use the term leftist.

and very true. Although i doubt any of us are enamored with it, it is what it is in the end.

but I feel more comfortable with progressive. I don't see why you can't be both. (And in my case, I'd throw in a little libertarian in some areas, as well.)

much gotten us this far without the garbage of progressive movement, which has been in opposition to liberalism many times in the 20th century.

I'm entitled to mine. How liberal of me.

Progressives -- capital "P" -- are the group responsible for everything from child labor laws to women's right to vote to food and drug regulation to checking corporate power though anti-monopoly legislation. I proudly call myself a liberal, but you'll never hear me dumping on the 20th Century progressive movement. What's your beef?

but I started out as a liberal and feel no compulsion to change. (I'm rather conservative in that respect.) Also, I feel even more allegiance to the term once it became part of the right wing smear campaign.

and I dare anyone to say it is a bad thing.

Liberals think everything will be OK if, for instance, we can only get rid of the Bush tax cuts. Or that the ACA is a panacea, so who needs single payer?

Progressives look at the millions of Americans living in poverty, uninsured, hungry "er, I mean "experiencing food insecurity&quot and come to the conclusion that the entire system is broken and must be rebuilt, placing people above profits.

There you have it,friend.

I wish I could rec'd your post.

Since it looks like we're in for a few days of 'Liberal' vs 'Progressive' threads

That term would include - in contrast to what we have today - progressives if being progressive means, as you put it, putting people above profits.

So, not disagreeing with you post as such, but rather just pointing out why there is sometimes heated discussion about the terms.

Cheers.

I always thought I was a liberal. Now I know better. Thanks again!

You have it exactly right, from my point of view.

even if it's done in baby steps.

Unfortunately, there are still just too many moderates and cons in this country for me to be a Liberal. It breaks my heart each and every time when my desire to see this country become more liberal is crushed when, after the dust settles, I find a Bush is in the WH because the rest of the country isn't "there" yet.

As a pragmatic progressive, I'll at least see the progress, keep things in perspective, and understand, however slowly, we're moving our country in the correct direction. There's that added benefit that I don't get my heart broken anymore, as well.

it's a continuum. Liberals are a tad slower than progressives,but eventually get there.

Karmaaid seems to be defining progressive as something closer to socialist and BlueCaliDem describes pragmatic progressiveism which seems to be to the right of liberalism. This debate comes up a lot, I really wish we could agree on a definition.

Although I agree with you, some definitions would be nice

and my first legal Presidential vote was McGovern. Having gone AWOL in politics for a couple of decades in the meantime, I wondered about the Progressive Label, too. I guess there's a reason Liberal went out of fashion, maybe too lefty, maybe the Media needed a synonym for Liberal, but not for me.

I've also found that when it comes up in conversation and I say, "Hell yes, I'm Liberal." They are so shocked that they're nice, and usually listen.

I miss Molly Ivins...they broke that mold...RIP.

K&R

Is that Verboten??

I don't give a flying $%# how badly Fox Sn00ze wants to tarnish the word, I'll wear it proudly.

getting drug through the muck, though I don't like the much older baggage of liberal that is associate with Laissez Fare economics which I consider the worst and most cancerous part of Reich Wingery.

I like leftist more and more. Sounds more threatening to wingers as well.