As one who's been there and back again with you from the time (in 2002, iirc) we researched our way through the sham of the DLC until today, you've always pointed our way toward the truth.

I still have links to some of your posts from the old site. Not sure where I put them on my new computer, but I have quoted from them now and then.

We had great experiences during those years. Been hard to get the enthusiasm back to that level. Probably never will.

I've never gone away but I stopped posting for a long time.

I branched out to Twitter and Daily Kos. Enjoying Twitter a lot.

https://twitter.com/madfloridian

If you are there, follow me.

Thanks.

election suits both parties just fine, because that way they can say: "We have to compromise, you know! The electorate demands it!"

It's more convenient that way.

and rec

Amazing post.

The Turd Way needs flushed.

He was fulfilling his promise to visit all states and territories while he was chair. When he was in American Samoa, Obama announced Tim Kaine as chair....Dean was not invited.

It made my mouth water because I know exactly what kind of peas you are talking about. Love them. Kind of hard to find very often. Grew up eating them with corn bread. Love your pictures in this post.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/bvar22

people not being treated like humans....

How are you doing?

This is right-wing politics, stuff that is to the right of Nixon and even Reagan. Our "choice" now is between right-wing and outright fascism.

The Third Way movement is little more than infiltration of the opposing party in order to destroy it from within by rendering it worthless to stand up for people's rights.

It's a way to not need the left or liberal part of your party. Designed that way.

"'we' are getting what 'we' want and 'we' don't need progressives like you." (paraphrasing as I'm going from memory) I was the only one taking my position in that thread - that was clearly started only to ridicule fellow DUers who dared worry about what Obama might do - as I presume all the posters in that thread are on ignore by real progressives on here. Really wish that ignore function wasn't on here for that reason.

I have only been back at DU a short time, most of my posts in the last month. I never attacked anyone, tried not to argue much....but already I can see that 7 people have me on ignore and have blocked me. That's up 2 from a day ago.

If they try to get votes by acting like Republican Lite, the voters go for full-flavor.

. . . neither party is interested in advancing anything significant of either side's agenda. When you do have the parties working together it's normally on legislation where votes are required to make a bill pass. You can argue that Democrats shouldn't be passing compromised bills, but that's not because of some desire for bipartisanship, it's a reflection of their desire to move an initiative forward.

So, 'bipartisanship' is the new 'DLC' bugaboo around here? It's a red herring, imo. Real-world, real-time legislative efforts are going to be 'bipartisan' in nature and function. If not, there simply won't be legislation advanced into action or law. That's the nature of the political balance in D.C. Pointing that out isn't an endorsement, just an observation for anyone who's interested in what it takes for a bill to become law. The rest is posturing, positioning, and puffery.

Legislators bring their firmly held positions to Congress and they either argue or compromise. There isn't any other avenue for them to enact legislation or advance initiatives other than to work to attract the necessary number of legislators to pass their bills on to the WH for a signature. Some legislation can wait; some legislation can't wait for the perfect language.

Amping folks up about the practice of bipartisanship ignores the democratic process which, more than often, challenges these legislators to work together to get what they want from their equally ambitious counterparts. That's not something sinister and mysterious. It's an obvious reality of our political system which elects folks from many disparate and diverse regions around the nation; each of them carrying their own prescriptions and notions about how to spend our money. How can it be surprising to anyone that no one individual is going to entirely get their way among the myriad of opinion and interests?

I personally think the critics hyperventilating about it give anyone thinking of adopting the 'third way' moniker way more cred than they would get by, say, pinning a button with the words 'third way' on it to their lapel.


(madfloridian: I'm a big fan of yours; esp. teachers)

Have always read your posts. Thanks for being a fan of teachers. Not everyone is anymore.

I like the idea of the "third way" button on their lapel. Good one.

no one gets everything they want. Unfortunately, so far, Obama too willingly concedes much before the negotiations even start. I hope he's learned his lesson, but I fear he's too centrist to feel those were really concessions in the first place.

+1

Most of us knew the DLC would be back.

of their influence on Obama and Congressional Dems. I dare say that most who voted for Obama in '08 had had enough of the Republicans (many had crossed over from there), so we weren't exactly expecting to have to surrender much, because the party of Bush and the Neocons had lost. From what I've read about DLC/3W, they're OK with most social liberalism (e.g., marriage equality) but very conciliatory toward economic conservatism. Allowing or in any way supporting the repeal of Glass-Stegall during the Clinton era contributed the economic nightmare brought about by what culminated in 2008.

As far as I'm concerned, Third Way (today's version of DLC) was much more about Republican ideas and talking points than retaining many traditional Democratic Party principles. As a result, it's a reach to find bedrock Democrats these days, and we've had to learn the hard way - from 2000 through 2008 - to realize the radical differences. Much of the country is watching as radical unfairness is being legislated and democracy is being stolen away from people.

Thank God Obama has already said NO regarding the inclusion of Debt Limit Ceiling as part of the Fiscal Cliff negotiations. If Third Way thinking is allowed to prevail on our side of the aisle now, we lose.

(Many of you could probably reply to what I just wrote with a big, "DUH!" but sometimes it helps me to process this by writing it out, so don't mind me!)

Thanks, madfloridian, for your usual thoughtful, important, and relevant posts.

I am sure in his mind Clinton must have made a connection. In fact I think he once said he was sorry about it.

Thanks for the kind words.

To break up a coalition and I find it suspect in every sense of the world. Smoke and mirrors for doing the same thing from a different angle. If you have a coalition of greater than half of the public, by definition it means that you have people closer to the right in that tent. Now either you want access to avenues of power where you can effect change or you continue to wander in the wilderness and rail against those who may not see eye to eye with every position you take on issues.

Not sure of a lot of implications of your post, but that phrase bothers me. It's like the term "one-issue voter" which is thrown around way too easily.

If you refer to those of us who speak on some issues and say we are "wandering in the wilderness" and railing against those who do not see eye to eye on every issue...then you are wrong.

We should always question what our leaders do. Always.

but once they were elected they outed themselves and are working overtime to get their laws passed before they get unelected in the next elections.

"You did your job," Dean added. "You elected Barack Obama. You elected a Democratic Congress. You elected a Democratic Senate. And now it's time for them to behave like Democrats if they want to get reelected. They have forgotten where they came from -- and they haven't been here that long."

pal..you'll like what we get to keep for you. Stop whining about it too.

K&R

Don't know if you saw this posted awhile back from woomewithscience, but it's a great complement to your OP, which I am bookmarking.

Thanks so much for the link. I did see several posts talking about we should be more understanding about these think tanks, Third Way mentioned.

I believe many of those "thinkers" feel there is no room in the party for those of us who question.

We've allowed the moderates in our party to outright verbally abuse us because they're afraid their candidate will lose. If they don't want their candidate to lose then their candidate needs to stand up for the people they are representing and stop compromising with corporatists. It is people like Elizabeth Warren that are truly leading the liberal charge. We need to be putting more people like her out in front in leadership positions. The moderates are certainly doing a horrible job with education which you are doing a tremendous job of bringing to the forefront madfloridian. The moderates need to get out of bed with corporatists who want to buy our public educational system.

No one is taking a leadership role, not even Arne Duncan. It's like the billionaire boys club moves him around like a pawn. He doesn't even know how teachers feel about him. Totally unaware.