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Xithras

(16,191 posts)
Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:28 PM Dec 2012

It seems to me that there's a simple Constitutional solution to the gun debate

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, ...

The United States Supreme Court has ruled in the past that the meaning of terms such as "regulated" must be based on their definitions at the time of the Constitution's writing, and not their meanings today. The meaning of "well regulated" in 1788 was "Trained", and not the modern definition...which tends to be more along the lines of "Limited".

So, the Second Amendment of the Constitution plainly states that it is necessary for gun owners to be "well trained and organized". This meaning was reinforced in DC v. Heller. While the court stated that gun ownership is an individual right, it ALSO affirmed the ability of the government to "train and organize" those who own them.

So, quite frankly, as a gun owner, I think it's time for gun licensing. Now, before the gungeoneers freak out, hear my argument out....

My position here is simple. Once every two years, everyone who wants to own a gun will have to submit to some basic training. We're not talking military training, but basic firearms handling certification, a criminal background check, and a FULL MENTAL HEALTH EVALUATION. If you pass them, you will be given a 24 month gun license.

Many gun enthusiasts will stop right there and say, "But I don't want the government to have a list of gun owners! That's the first step to confiscation!" That argument may have been valid 20 years ago, but it's not today. Nowadays it would be trivial to build a one-way authentication system that allowed licenses to be verified without the government being able to identify individuals (for the geeks: The government would merely keep a one way salted hash containing their license number, name, bdate, and SSN...the government can't crack it, but anyone needing to verify a license could merely enter these numbers into the computer, generate a new token, and compare the two to ensure validity. Easy peasy for the geekly inclined.)

Anyway, once we have authenticated licensing in place, we make the possession of a firearm without a license a MAJOR felony. I'm talking, 10 years first-offense. Let's make this a "we're gonna ruin your life" kind of crime.

The idea here is simple. We determine which citizens can actually handle firearms and are sane enough to do so, and we give them a pass. Anyone else gets buried.

Now, once this is done....WE ELIMINATE ALL THE OTHER BS GUN REGULATIONS. No bullet limits. No waiting periods. No gun bans. Quite honestly, if someone is trustworthy enough to own A gun, they're trustworthy enough to own ANY gun. It's absolutely disingenuous to say, "I have no problem with that guy owning a lethal handgun, but I'm afraid of him if he owns a lethal assault weapon." Both weapons are equally lethal, and if you can't trust someone with one, you really shouldn't be trusting them with the other. I don't care if we're talking about a snub nose or an "assault rifle". If you have a valid license, you have demonstrated your trustworthiness to the government. You should be able to walk into any gun store, buy any gun you want, and walk out with it.

We need to make it very, very hard for unstable people or the criminally inclined to get a license. And then we need to make it a very, VERY painful experience for those who have them without a license. But once that's done, the government shouldn't be making life harder for the law-abiding. People who don't commit crimes don't need to be treated like criminals.

The fight over gun rights ultimately boils down to one fundamental problem...there is currently no way for society to identify the "bad" gun owners among the "good" gun owners. If we create and enforce a system that will allow that identification, everything else is simple.
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jody

(26,624 posts)
1. "there is currently no way for society to identify the "bad" gun owners among the "good" gun owners"
Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:32 PM
Dec 2012

I agree that would be a good step.

The experts in psychiatry and psychology seem the most logical to develop such a system.

Xithras

(16,191 posts)
4. That's really the gist of the problem
Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:45 PM
Dec 2012

Gun owners (and I'm one myself) hate gun regulations because 99% of the people they punish have never, and will never, commit any sort of crime with their guns. It's a form of collective punishment against a population which is almost universally law-abiding, simply because a small number of them arent.

At the same time, gun owners do NOT want idiots like this guy in Connecticut, or Jared Laughner, or Patrick Purdy to be walking around with guns. Gun owners will be the first to tell you that the most dangerous criminals are the well armed ones, and we ALL want to see the criminals disarmed.

So how do you disarm the tiny minority without punishing the overwhelmingly law-abiding majority? Well, you can't do ANYTHING without first identifying who is whom. The only way to do that is to actually test would-be gun owners to ensure that they can handle firearms safely. And the only way to do THAT practically is through some sort of licensing regimen.

There are ways to impose licensing without undermining the privacy of gun owners or overly empowering the government. 20 years ago these options didn't exist. Since they do now, it's time to revisit the subject.

zazen

(2,978 posts)
2. right! we license drivers because of safety reasons
Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:34 PM
Dec 2012

And cars aren't intended to kill (in either aggression or self-defense)--they just happen to kill.

Xithras

(16,191 posts)
8. That would have done nothing to stop the current tragedy.
Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:54 PM
Dec 2012

My proposal, on the other hand, may have.

STOP regulating guns. STOP regulating gun sales. History shows that neither of these things really has any substantial impact on crime. Instead, let's START "regulating" WHO has access to guns. If you can eliminate access to the unstable, then the number of guns, types of guns, and methods of purchase used by those who are law abiding and trustworthy becomes irrelevant.

Xithras

(16,191 posts)
10. Lifetime ban is taking it too far.
Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:59 PM
Dec 2012

Let's say that someone's license is expiring and they have to get recertified. The guys wife dies a week before the test. The mental health evaluation determines that the person is suffering from depression and shouldn't have firearms. I have NO problem with repealing the license in that situation.

Two years later, they've moved past the loss, and regained their mental stability...why should they still be banned? That argument makes no sense. While there are many mental health issues that plague a person throughout their life, many others (and possibly most) are temporary. No citizen should have their rights suspended for life because of a temporary problem.

As for the time period, my "24 months" was just as example. Congress would have to hash out a reasonable and acceptable period of validity.

tledford

(917 posts)
9. You must apply the same 10-year sentence for a first offense ...
Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:54 PM
Dec 2012

... to anyone who SELLS a gun to an unlicensed individual. NOW you might be talking about something effective.

Xithras

(16,191 posts)
12. 100% agree.
Fri Dec 14, 2012, 07:01 PM
Dec 2012

And, unlike the current NICS system, it should be open to the public. Someone wants to buy that rifle you posted on Craigslist? Fine. Call the 800 number, give them the name, license number, and birthdate of the person who wants to buy. Government says Yes or No. It should be that easy.

If that's in place, I 100% support throwing the book at people who sell firearms to people without checking their license or worse, who knowingly sell to someone without one.

 

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)
11. "before the gungeoneers freak out"
Fri Dec 14, 2012, 06:59 PM
Dec 2012

I think it's high time we stop giving a shit whether the gungeoneers freak out. We need to build coalitions and defeat them at the polls, period. We've tried to negotiate with these people - they have zero respect for human lives. Fuck them, and hard. Build the machines to defeat them. They've gotten a free pass long enough.

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