And I never pulled the trigger, didn't have to. Really cute little ditty though.

There are no statistics to say how often gun owners and their families lives were saved because of proper, trained, licensed use of handguns since proper use usually means no shots are fired as in my case. So you have no legitimate comparison to make. The only way to make a valid comparison is to compare the number of deaths to the number of times the guns were pulled, and how often they killed when they pulled, and then how often was it the bad guy hurt or killed vs the good guy. Sorry by over simplifying the topic you've invalidated the point you were trying to make.

In fact I admit it does EXACTLY what it was made to do very well.

It kills people.

So my point is to point out the flaw in your over simplification. But remain obtuse to it if you chose.

Yup, no stats on it.

Choose to believe what you want.

Glad it protected you, but lots of people are in their grave because of that gun.

You want simple, here is simple.

Last year, handguns killed:
-48 people in Japan
-8 in Great Britain
-34 in Switzerland
-52 in Canada
-58 in Israel
-21 in Sweden
-42 in West Germany
-10,728 in the United States.

Now THAT is simple. Sorry if you want to remain obtuse in the face of such "simplicity".

since there are no stats on how many they didn't kill even whence drawn.

A. They kill more than they save

B. They save more than they kill.

C. They kill and save exactly the same number.

What do YOU think or do you not bother to ask the question?

Here's the DU thread about it
People with a gun ...

Its been cited repeatedly over the last couple of days due to it salacious content, but it is seriously flawed.

DGU metrics are not collected and most go unreported unless one is discharged. Both sides argue heavily about it, but the data is just not there

Or are you just bloviating?

and both sides try to fake otherwise.

Essentially you are taking a gun lobby talking point and maundering about how there was no allowance made for one class within the data. The data does exist within the study, all it needs is deeper analysis.

If you are a professor you are a very poor apology for one

Neither side has concrete numbers and they both fudge in their favor. There is no solid data on Defensive Gun Usage in that study or anywhere else.

As a full professor I understand GIGOs law...and I am not accepting it from either side.

It touches on it, but it doesn't cover but a weensy part of what I'm discussing because it is based on assaults. I'm talking about all the times guns are pulled, perhaps even shot and no one is harmed and no police are involved because an assault never actually happens as the knowledge the offender will be shot causes him/her to run away.

Additionally I've always supported gun regulation, just not bans. Those of us with proper creds and training would not be likely to be shot while assaulted as that should be part of the training they took. I do not believe we should have the loose laws and ownership rights we have now. I think to own a gun everyone should have to take and pass the CCW type course even if they never intend on carrying. hunters and all long gun owners should have both CCW and hunting training.

In no way do I now or ever have supported loosy-goosy gun regs of today. But to say that a glock is not good for assuring safety regardless of whether the trigger is pulled is complete bs and I have lived that proof, so it cannot be denied to me.

and guns are not the answer to all your problems.

yup

world, as you seem only to be able to see what you want to and not what is actually there.

means.

Did you notice that you wrote "West Germany", that's a Brady poster from the 80's that you copypasted.

So with that being the case, in the end, those folks will find some way to off themselves. Perhaps instead of banning guns, we need to allow for humane suicide. Then our gun deaths would drop dramatically.

our suicides are with guns and theirs with ???? I don't know. Otherwise as you point out, the whole we have so many "gun" deaths issue while not addressing all deaths caused by human intent to cause death is entirely insincere.

Does it put put fires?

Does it keep people from catching the flu?

Does it tell them when to cross the street?

Or, does it scare the shit out of whoever it is pointed at?

What if the person it is pointed at also has a Glock?

Since guns don't protect people.

Mutually assured destruction and all. Does this mean you should have one around the house? I mean, we all know terrorists could get one. Shouldn't you be armed against that possibility?

Now I have been mugged 4 times: gun in an elevator, knife on the stairs, lead pipe on a dark street, and head bounced off a wall in the vestibule. Two losses, one win, one draw. Not once did I think I would be safer with a weapon. Although spraying Charlie in someone's eyes might be fun to try.

Our constitution calls for a 'WELL-REGULATED militia.' People seem to ignore that stricture. In our wild west days, the first sign of civilization was getting the fucking guns off the streets. Thank you for your bid for total regression.

5'5", 100# female with two children in tow. Now re-evaluate your muggings. Would a gun be seemingly useful then? I don't carry since I don't have kids to protect anymore, but I'll never apologize for carrying while a slight female with two children.

And getting a gun out of a purse that was being grabbed away from me would have been unrealistically difficult. (But a Christmas bonus to my mugger.)

Reaching under my coat for a holstered gun in winter would have been pretty messy too.

My mother had reasons to be overprotective of her children. Her solution was vigilance not firearms. Mom was 5'6" with two children.

Did you ever consider an Airedale? Nobody messes with an Airedale's kid.

LEGAL gun ownership just is not the problem. When one compares the number of firearms owned to the number of legal firearms owners who commit crimes, the concept just doesn't hold up.

Yes, regs need to return to pre-Bush era, and yes magazine size should be limited. But guns alone are not the problem. You folks keep trying to make all of this so black and white and it just isn't.

So, a bad guy threatens you and you, and you scare him away with your precious Glock.

Do you call the cops and report it?

If you don't, the bad guys win.

The idea that there are lots of unreported gun heroism happening is just plain stupid.

and a gun nutter myth

yup

it was the day he realized it was time to put his fist back at his side instead of across my face or the face of my daughter. Since the teachers (mother was teacher and many knew of our lives) nor doctors (my dad was a doctor and many knew what was going on in our house) ever did anything to stop it, police weren't going to be much help. So instead I pullled a gun on him, told him as he had fist raised to hit either my dd or myself (can't be sure, I was holding her so we were both in the line of fist and he was pissed at both), anyway I said "Do it motherfucker, I've been wanting to kill you my whole life, today is as good a day as any, You will not raise hand to my child ever" and his fist went down. I gathered our stuff up and left, never to return.

Secondly you can call things myths, but without stats you can't even prove that.

The cops should've arrested you both.

yup

If you don't think so, I hope you don't have any children.

Shpritz of Charlie perfume or Fantastic with bleach right in his eyes wouldn't have given you time to leave? OR DIALING 911?

Had to be a gun.

Still wondering why you waited UNTIL he raised his fist.

I'm sure you didn't place wanting to see him cower above the safety of your child.

Besides at the time I carried a gun, not a bat, or a knife so none was at all handy. And if anyone deserved a bullet from me it was him and/or my mother, and guess what I shot neither, even as angry as I was. The gun is not the problem, the person holding the gun might be.

I drew my weapon prepared to shoot, I warned of the perp, the perp backed down, I removed myself and my loved ones from the situation never to return again and risk a repeat. If you don't like those rules, I suggest you argue with those police and military folks who do the training.

except those carries by military personell or police officers. Not one of my friends owns a gun.
Sure we have shootings here in Holland, mostly criminals shooting other criminals. But I've never been exposed to guns or gun voilence. And I'm glad about that. I'm glad we have the things outlawed. It helps.

We "get exposed" through constant media attention, but very few people I've known have ever been near gun violence here either.


As for the idea that none of your friends own guns. I gather you're in a different country, but here many gun owners simply never tell anyone they own a gun or even carry. Only my children ever knew I was carrying back in the day. I don't carry anymore because I only carried to protect my children and they're grown and out of the house and not with me to protect.

On the whole, though, the guy with a knife in the stairwell scared me more. He was well-dressed with a calm and deadly determination. Didn't argue with him at all.

Wasn't every gun used in mass shooting events during 2012 purchased legally, as well as all magazines and ammunition?

.