Im already seeing a number of comments along these lines:

"We'll lose the senate if we act"

"The NRA is just too powerful"

"The federal government has no jurisdiction"

All of which is just what the NRA gun nuts want to hear besides being a steaming pile of horse shit.

Unless you belong to a well-regulated militia (which can be established), you should not be allowed to own a military grade weapon. Belonging to a well regulated militia means psych and IQ exams that you must pass. Along with mandatory military training and maneuvers, if you want the military grade guns, then a weekend a month, and two weeks in the field, just like the State guard.

Military grade Gun owners need to be liable for unlimited financial responsibility for damage caused by their guns.

If the weapon is stolen then your an accessory to whatever crime is committed with them no plea bargain, nothing.

For the general populace. No hand guns other then six-to 10 round mags for the general populace, and single bolt action hunting rifles.

<CALL TO ACTION!> Obama needs our help against the NRA!!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022008151

It's just not ever going to happen.

What a waste of energy, to even think that it could, much less should, ever be done.

eom

We should certainly confiscate then destroy weapons found in the hands of criminals and ex cons.

We should continue and strengthen and apply consistently background checks, etc.

And we should convict and imprison, universally, criminals who use guns (and give a break instead to pot growers and 3x bike thieves).

eom

Provided he doesn't have a criminal record? Think man!!!!

My wife and I own several semi autos and we've never used them illegally or negligently. Our neighbors also own semi autos, hasn't been a problem.

Why would anyone want to spend their hard-earned money on fancy guns?

I don't get it. It's like collecting clocks or earmuffs. What good do you get out of them?

All the money spent on guns in this country could be used to help find a cure for cancer or something else that is useful?

The total uselessness of having so many guns . . .

I like to play the piano. I have one piano.

I have known people who had two pianos. It's kind of nice to play two-piano duets if a friend comes over. But more than two pianos. More than two of most things is just a waste.

Personally, I think people get addicted to owning guns, collecting guns, playing with guns. And if guns weren't so dangerous, that would be fine. But the addicts forget that the objects of their addiction are deadly. That's what the mother of this most recent murderer forgot. An addiction to guns can kill you.

No one can use more than one gun at a time. The more you have, the more likely an accident will happen.

Both of our daughters are grown and gone. We both enjoy target shooting on weekends with different firearms.
My wife was robbed an beaten several years ago and she has vowed to be able to fight back the next time, so she now has a CHL.
We're not addicted in the traditional sense, we just enjoy the fine craftsmanship and our firearms have never hurt anyone.
We are both retired and have a lot of disposable income to spend.
We have never been, nor will we ever be, members of the NRA, instead, we're both members of the Liberal Gun Club.

I have a variety of guns, all for different purposes.

I have guns for self-defense. I have guns for target shooting. I have guns for hunting birds. I have guns for hunting deer. I have guns for hunting squirrels and rabbits. I have guns for shooting skeet. I have guns for competition shooting.

No one can use more than one gun at a time.

Which is why it is silly to be worried about someone who owns a lot of them.

The more you have, the more likely an accident will happen.

They are all stored in the same safe, so I don't see how that could be.

was a "responsible" gun owner until that happened. Ban the guns and screw hunters too.

"The more you have, the more likely an accident will happen. "

You only need one for an accident to happen, a gun makes any situation it happens to be around into a potentially deadly situation in a very unique manner. it's like saying "Hi how are you" but instead it's "Hi, I have a killing machine, how are you?"

The reason to be worried about someone who has a lot of guns is because there is a dangerous mental type that tends to go along with it. (tends, leave your anecdotal "Not me" evidence at the door, plz).

I also highly dispute that a gun gives anyone a chance for defense, it introduces a element of danger to every day life, and statistics show that it won't help in 99% of instances where NRA types claim it is useful for,

I own about 20 firearms. So does my father. So did his. I'm an Eagle Scout. So is my father. (and no, I don't support their homophobia). I have a well-paying job. I have a functional family.

I am not a "dangerous mental type".

Heck, I shoot in competition that has categories for at least 5 different kinds of guns. Are all of us competitors "dangerous mental types?"

It's never we who are not responsible, it's the people who get caught.

Plus you didn't read my post, where I said "Tends to, leave anecdotal "Not me" evidence at the door" because I'm talking general, think outside yourself for once.

Is that too many? Who gets to decide?

Not you, thanks very much.

Bake

or chase small white balls around a golf course.

I have enjoyed target shooting handguns or 45 years. It's a sport that requires a lot of concentration but is very relaxing. I also have enjoyed reloading my own ammunition and tailoring the rounds to individual firearms in order to find the most accurate combination. I don't buy firearms just to collect them but instead to use them to punch holes in paper.

We all have different interests and that is what makes the world interesting.

The only semi-automatic I own is my grandfather's old single action police service pistol which I haven't fired in 20-30 years, but lots of people own them.

I've lived in the South almost my entire life, and I've never felt a need to own a gun.

I don't really see how that changes reality though.

http://usliberals.about.com/od/Election2012Factors/a/Gun-Owners-As-Percentage-Of-Each-States-Population.htm

I don't care what percentage of Southerners own guns. It doesn't make owning a gun any more or less mandatory.

I've lived here for more years than I care to admit. I have never once felt that I needed to own a gun.

Reading between the lines is big fun and opens yourself up to volumes of information you might have otherwise missed.

Just sayin'

and has a 21% chance of serving on a jury.

I think i'm going to cut back on the time I spend here.

Was I rude to you or anyone else? Haven't I been pretty reasonable? I thought that I have expressed some good points on gun control, am I wrong?

I just don't like the idea that people who have been here for a day have a 21% chance of serving on a jury.

I'll refrain from jury duty for at least 2 weeks because you do have a valid point.
Is that fair?

And I'm not a criminal. Do you even know what semi-auto MEANS?

Bake

Sorry, but no welcome for you.

Just go away and

troll somewhere else

Go read some of my earlier posts and you will see that I'm in favor of some new gun control laws.
Why the rudeness and hostility?

in favor of gun rights.

Joining today of all days and posting in defense of gun rights -even with reasonable restrictions...

Really, what kind of reaction did you expect?

as I have been towards everyone else here, including you.
Yes, I am in favor of the 2A with reasonable restrictions, as all rights are subject to. We need a National conversation on the 2A, not the hostility and rudeness.

It's far too easy to just come in and screw with us. Hell, axetogrind might be a perfectly legit, polite poster and loyal Democrat, but I'm not comfortable about someone getting jury privileges upon first joining. No wonder the jury system is a farce.

I'll even go one further, I won't serve on any juries until I get at least 1000 posts. Is that fair enough?

axe, the rules apply the same to you as to someone who has a million posts. a large amount of posts do not necessarily indicate a large amount of intelligence or higher morals, don't be brow beaten just because some has 5 figure post amounts. extremism on either side of the fence is indefensiblee

I'm new here and I am loath to piss people off so until I get the hang of this, I'm going to tread lightly.
Actually I a pretty mild mannered person.

neighbors either. Until yesterday, when her responsible guns slaughtered 28 people including herself and 20 children.

Hope all you responsible gun owners enjoy your hobby enough to make it worth that.

I'd go for it NOW before the funeral Masses even begin for all those little victims. I'd exploit EVERY bit of the mourning and sadness to get this jump-started. Yes. Exploit. And I'm sorry to have to get crass, but I've never made a secret of the fact that I'm as Machiavellian as the next guy. And if we can use this horror to push for legislation that truly does save lives and does benefit the greater good, why shouldn't we?

There may be no better time than NOW!

I'll bet ANY of those parents who are mourning a murdered CHILD from this massacre would tell anyone who'd listen that if they could do nothing else at this point, they'd want to try to keep OTHER parents from going through this agony. They'd want to move Heaven and Earth, if they could, to make sure that this nightmare never befalls any other mom or dad in America. Every parent I've ever seen in recent memory, who's had to live through this kind of ordeal where their beloved innocent child becomes a murder victim, from John Walsh onward, has said a version of the same thing. Especially when they embrace activism. What they want more than anything, if they can never get their precious baby back, then they want to do whatever they can to prevent this from happening to ANY other parent, and KEEP THIS FROM HAPPENING AGAIN.

How have we been doing so far? Not very good, judging from the track record we see. TWO multiple shootings in the same week - the first one in a mall early in the week, and Friday, Newtown, Connecticut. And, then, the day after the Connecticut school massacre, a woman is shot to death outside the Excalibur Hotel in Las Vegas.

WTF???????

And don't forget what Howard Dean said during the 2004 campaign, and has continued to preach: the only way you lose is if you don't try. So what if it's a high mountain to climb? Things change. Attitudes can and do change also. Look how much talk and coverage and attention there now is, regarding the whole notion of significant change that manifested itself in this last election. Look how fast public opinion is tilting toward acceptance of marriage equality. There's a majority now, which is a change just from a few years ago. I forget how many years but I do remember it was under five. That's an AMAZING shift in the attitude of the collective and it's being so noted in the media. That used to be a high mountain, too - widely regarded as pretty unsurmountable. Religiosos were against it, emphatically and extremely. Now? I recently saw some poll numbers on "Hardball" (or some such program) that showed young church-goers comprised the highest percentage of support for marriage equality.

So why can't we seize this opportunity when public opinion is running strongly in favor of SOME kind of stepped-up gun control? SOMETHING!

Why can't we do something that would TRULY honor the innocent dead? DO it for them, and in their memory. So their deaths would not remain merely senseless. So they didn't die in vain.

Or that some token legislation passes.

The way to stop it in its tracks is to prohibit transfer of guns. Those who've stocked up in hopes of profiting would be left holding hunks of metal.

Yes, Gungeoneers, I know some criminals will still get them. In fact, I suspect Gungeoneers will be in line to sell to anyone with the money.

Australia did it in 1996.

But gun nuts, I find, don't tend to be very forward-looking in regards to these kind of things.

I live the mountains, I use a firearm to regularly defend myself from wildlife. I've shot a rabid opossum that could have bit my son.

Are you going to take my firearm too?

Or a rifle like my Dad did on the farm? Big difference in my opinion.
I do not think all of us want all guns banned, and I do not think we can get that done, BUT automatic weapons with huge clips need to be banned NOW!!!!! Gun shows and internet purchases need to go away. We need to do better background checks NOW.

Considered herself a "responsible" gun owner. That didn't turn out so well for her.

Next question?

He's a cop.

not traveling to or from a gun range or shop or repair person. There is no earthly reason to have semi-automatics sitting around in one's home. Anyone who thinks there is, is probably a drug dealer or simply insane.

Do you have any idea what it is like in rural America? It is not a bunch of "gun nuts", or NRA supporting teabaggers, etc. It is you and me, it is fellow DUers, it is our teachers, and pastors, and policemen, etc.
In fact, a local Sheriff deputy is my husbands gun dealer (federally licensed).

Although it would have not changed my vote, before the election I heard the great lie over and over again that Obama was gonna take away our guns. Now after I spent hours on face book, face to face, email chains, etc. trying to debunk that rumor, don't make them right.

I am truly afraid that this could be the end of rural America Democratic support.

BTW, I live in an small to average size community in mid Wisconsin (around 7,000). In the past 20 years I can honestly remember two murders in this area. Neither had a gun used (one was a knife, one was a hammer). I can almost guarantee that 75% of homes in my area have at least one gun, and most have more than that.

And no I am not necessarily against some sensible gun laws (private access to the NCIS database, possibly limiting the size of magazines, etc). I am not defending the NRA, I am defending my 2 nd Ammendment rights.

'Mkay????

Bike thieves should be beaten in place, left to rot on the side of the road.

I had a high end Fuji taken in the 80's. This road bike was SWEET-- I'd freed it up from a parking post on Sullivan Street off Bleeker, closer to W. 3rd (I lived at 227 Sullivan, was a super there, another story).

Anyway, I freed up this frame and took it to the guy on Canal Street for a full rebuild, student discount.

A beautiful bike, I think I got three or four years service.

Until some mother fucker took it while parked at the engineering building at Cooper Union on Astor Place.

So, yeah, beaten in place and left to rot, I can live with that.

I bought a gun safe Friday, had nothing to do with the tragedy, it was on sale.

It'll be a good place for passports, valuables, and, of course, my scary arsenal of single shot .410s and .22 plinkers!

That's one trouble I'm having right now, where I live they are letting the thieves go free.

Sez the 20 post member....

To a former DU moderator.....

...well, you know....

I haven't been for years, but the 50 mile radius is littered with safe places to shoot!

Just don't let yourself be a target!

yelling at traffic.

What could POSSIBLY go wrong??

I'll go shoot with ya. But we have to do it before I get liquored up.

I only play with the dynamite after cocktails.

Unless you have an RPG.

Moderator, schmoderator. Dead first-graders trump your gun fascination.

I'm a little worn out. Alert on me if you like.

that was later PPR'd. Anyone who pulls out the "I'm a better DUer than you b/c I was a MOD" card, makes me go hmmmmmmm.

And the superior attitude that the gun-lovers take. I just don't understand it.

It also doesn't mean you were a good moderator. You're trolling for the NRA, and your timing couldn't be worse. Go celebrate your past moderating victories elsewhere. Just go.

Doesn't matter what laws you pass in an attempt to eliminate guns from the equation, the people who own most of the guns won't comply. In the current political environment things could get really ugly. The Heller decision reinforced the fact that that isn't a viable option in this country from a legal perspective, let alone a practical one.

It would, if it were successful legally and politically, which it can't be, completely derail the Democratic agenda and dramatically increase the violence. The last AWB only cost the Dems the congress in the '90s and the presidency in 2000, mostly because it was completely ineffective and simply a nuisance to gun owners who actually jumped through the hoops to comply with it. Oh and it increased demand for these weapons by an order of magnitude also.

I've read a number of posts here advocating that we need to "do something, anything" to make ourselves feel better but I disagree.

We need to do the right things, things that have some chance of improving the situation rather than making it worse.

The way we really need to approach this IMO is to get the social and economic situation in this country under control, and give people the tools they need for peaceful conflict resolution and coping with loss and trauma. These shooters are angry suicides, people who feel they have something to live for don't do these things, healthy people don't turn off their humanity and kill little children. Obama is a lot smarter than people think.

What we really have a problem with in this country isn't guns or mental illness, it's desperate, angry adolescence, and I'm not just talking about the teenagers. Instead of a fruitless push to take peoples guns away we should be asking Americans to secure their guns, most do, and those who don't are likely to reconsider after an event like this.

I'm not a visiting conservative, I just think this issue is the way liberals are going to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, much like the conservatives did with their foreign policy, only a lot worse.

...But you are correct of course, it "Doesn't matter what laws you pass in an attempt to eliminate guns from the equation, the people who own most of the guns won't comply" because they are un-American gun idolaters and borderline criminals , not responsible mature citizens.

talk to me, also the police are not required to protect the people they only protect the people that they arrest. If your neighbor is being raped and you call the police there is no requirement for the police to come. You are own you own according to the law.

People who own guns are un-American and borderline criminals...in your opinion?

Get outa here. You can't outlaw stress and you can't make everybody capable of only peaceful resolution to every problem. How I wish we could. Okay, so let's say we accomplish that somehow. No trauma for anybody anywhere. It will take years abd how many deaths? In the meantime, let's get the guns under 'well-regulated' control.

Which child's life is worth anyone's 'right' to own a gun?

We will win this fight. Your semi-auto pistols and rifles are going to be put under strict regulation. Your infatuation with guns has resulted in a disastrous social situation that needs to be addressed, and since the whole lot of you are too immature to face that fact, we will do it for you.

How do you propose to remove 300+ million guns from the country without invoking a real police state worse than we now have.

Or is that a price worth paying to you?

But that is not my problem.

1 . Make possession of high capacity magazines a federal felony with a minimum sentence of five years. Allow a one year grace period for enforcement.

Or we could wait until there are 600,000,000 weapons and daily mass murders, and start then.

faster that you could change a magazine. I don't have high capacity Magazines and I don't need them.

The technicality arguments for why we should do nothing are just tired NRA talking points. We won't stop all mass murders, but we might stop some of them.

Curious: where did you do your residency?

How very odd that there seems to be precisely zero online presence for a university by that name...

.

I am not immature. If you want people to take you and your argument seriously, please speak like an adult.

Works in Canada, by the way.

And only prevented the manufacture of new mags of high capacity.

Try again.

My bad.

It holds 10 rounds.

It's a 6-shot revolver. You have to load the black powder and balls in one end, and place caps on the nipples.

Is that out, too?

I just bought myself one for Christmas for competition shooting.

The details can be worked out. As a museum piece it does not need to be operable.

I shoot competitively with it. It definitely needs to operate for me to compete with it.

I'm just trying to get an idea here of how many of my guns are on the chopping block.

What about my muzzle loaders?

Looks like all you have to do is pay $75 and take a one-day class to get your license and you can buy handguns of any kind, let alone black powder weapons.

http://www.howtogetagun.ca/

Steve

They are taking all the guns.
I guess I will say goodbye to my revolver.
Oh well...

I disagree.

badgering you on this thread. They understand what you're saying. I'm going to put them on ignore, and when that list gets to 100, i'm leaving this site.

shotguns sense 1969, if you think people are going to turn these guns into the police you must be crazy, the police would take them home. Over the last few years a lot of police, sheriffs included, have been arrested for taking confiscated firearms home. My neighbor was mfg meth, I called the law, the law did nothing, one person in that house is a cop, I bought a new gun and ammo because of the drug traffic that this created, I expected a shoot out at any time, I finally got lucky the Bank Foreclosed on their property, now I have a good neighbor. In 2 miles there are 5 people on this road. Also 12000 acres of woods to hunt.

I own a shitload of guns, most of them semi-auto. I have no problem registering them, I have no problem with background checks on private sales. I have no problems with lots of regulations.

I have problems with outright elimination of them, per the OP.

So take it up with him or her.

eom

Last edited Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:56 PM - Edit history (1)

That it's useless. No point in even trying. It's just not gonna happen. Sanctity of second amendment.

THAT is the first part of the mindset we need to focus on overcoming. As long as we give in before even trying to fight this, we LOSE before the battle's even begun.

You won't see me being part of that.

We need to REFRAME the issue and aggressively so. Put the gun nuts on the defensive. Start equating wanton unregulated unmanaged gun-access to accessory to mass murder. Accomplices. Enablers. We HAVE TO start reframing it into something UNCOOL. Make it worth shunning, even. Make it unacceptable and unendorsable in polite company. I realize we'll be swimming upstream against the ever-lovin' cowboy mentality that pervades this country. It has to start being placed on a scale, against the right of innocent school children to live through the day's class schedule - versus an individuals's pigheaded "right" to own their own personal individual death panel. Start casting it in a negative, undesirable light. PUT THEM ON THE DEFENSIVE. Put it point blank, as painful as can be - "so your right to be an accessory to, or an enabler of, mass murder trumps a five-year-old's right to live through the average school day??????" Because I tell you, THAT is what it comes down to. 'Cause THAT is what guns do.

And to the lame-ass argument that car wrecks cause more deaths than gun violence. Well the hell with that! CARS were NEVER conceived or designed as instruments for killing. That is not their prime reason for existence. Neither is that true for knives - which can also trim, sculpt, carve, slice bread and cheese and meat and cakes and pies, prepare food. They aren't strictly-speaking assault or attack weapons. They aren't even exclusively weapons. ON THE OTHER HAND, WHAT ELSE IS A GUN FOR? OTHER THAN KILLING??? Okay, so you MIGHT if you're lucky and there isn't panic and total chaos all over the place, you MIGHT be able to get in a good clean shot at the bad guy with the bigger badder fire power than you've got. What are the odds, unless you're in the movies? You're still just as likely to hit an innocent bystander or hurt yourself in the process. And that's still a death, so you still used it to kill. I'll bet most of these gun-lovers also call themselves "pro-life." Well, if you advocate for unlimited access to any gun and any amounts of guns you feel like it's your God-given right to have, then you can't possibly call yourself "pro-life." Loving and giving that high a priority to guns automatically negates that. 'Cause all guns are designed for, quite basically, is killing.