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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIt's Time To Re-Think the Second Amendment
Or at least the American view of ourselves as the lone lawman on the frontier, the cowboy, the gangster (or gangsta). When the Second Amendment was written, we were a new nation. We had just fought a war against our Colonial masters and won. We would fight another one in a few years. We still had hostile Native American tribes to commit genocide on. We had no police force. We had a lot of criminals that were sent over to the Colonies rather than crowd English prisons. We had people afraid of the Germans and Irish coming off of the boats. And, pretty much everyone had to hunt for their own food, or protect their livestock if they raised livestock.
Now, not so much. Contrary to "Red Dawn", nobody is attacking us militarily. Our military is second to none. We don't have to hunt our food anymore, it's purely recreational. We've managed to eliminate most higher-order predators. We have police. Crime is nowhere near the levels that it was 100 years ago, or even before WWII. But we still idolize violence. Movies and TV shows show people solving their problems with guns. Our cultural heroes are Dirty Harry, James Bond, and Jack Bauer. Even Indiana Jones solved a problem by using a gun.
This is what we learn from the time we're able to watch "grown up" TV or movies. Guns are a way to solve your problems. Got a bad guy in your way? Shoot him. Someone's playing their music too loud? Wave a gun in his face. Someone cut you off in traffic? Do a drive-by shooting. It's no wonder that kids learn this stuff.
I don't know what the solution is. But, we need to have a national conversation about this, and try to talk rationally. Nobody should "take guns away". People should do it voluntarily. Because, no matter how good you are, how well-trained a shooter you are, this week has shown that those guns can be stolen and used against you.
elleng
(130,974 posts)tho I am not happy with Supreme's Heller decision. It does NOT stand for the proposition that gun possession/ownership/sales can NOT be regulated.
Our political 'leaders' have to have the guts and wisdom to craft and propose reasonable regulations, locally, statewide and nationally.
axetogrind
(118 posts)I own several rifles and handguns but I'm more than willing to entertain new gun control laws that will help stop another massacre.
Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)I just sent this to my (retiring) congresswoman:
Dear Congresswoman Woolsey:
Repeal the Second Amendment Now.
It is irrational that we have a constitutional right to own a gun but not a car. A car has utility and purpose, transporting us to where we need to go, and occasionally tragically causing death. Guns have the sole purpose of causing death. They have no other utility.
Please, I beg of you, in your final days in Congress, make the most courageous stand of your life. Introduce a bill to amend the Constitution, striking the second amendment from the Bill of Rights. Take the one real, bold, sane action that will be a fitting memorial to the children and adults massacred in Newtown.
Only after the second amendment is repealed can we have meaningful regulation of guns, which rationally needs to be much stronger and more rigorous than the licensing and insurance requirements for cars, rather than far weaker as is currently the case. It is disingenuous to pretend otherwise.
Challenge your congressional colleagues to pass your bill and send the amendment to the states for ratification. Stand up to the bloodthirsty, moneyhungry NRA. Trust that in all states of our union, there are enough people who love children more than they love guns. Let us have a REAL, meaningful conversation about rights and guns and death.
Challenge your colleagues to exhibit as much courage as a kindergarten teacher or an elementary school principal.
Repeal the Second Amendment Now. It is obvious what we need to do to have any hope of preventing further Newtowns. No other response is proportional to this ongoing catastrophe.
Repeal the Second Amendment Now.
Respectfully,
jody
(26,624 posts)your vote for a totalitarian form of government.
Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)amendments or changes. Read some Thomas Jefferson.
jody
(26,624 posts)rights that preexist our Constitution and as SCOTUS said do not depend upon words on paper.
The Second Amendment protects an individual RKBA and is an enumerated right.
If the Second did not exist, RKBA would be protected by the Ninth Amendment as an unenumerated right.
Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)axetogrind
(118 posts)How do you plan to repeal the 2A knowing that?
You will not a repeal of the 2A, so why not work to make changes to gun laws that will pass?
Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)Let the voters in all states have the opportunity to ask their legislators to vote for sanity and against further unabated carnage.
Let those state legislatures that support child massacres go on record.
I prefer to try for the sane solution, rather than throwing up my hands in defeat, knowing the slaughter will continue without DRASTIC changes.
axetogrind
(118 posts)All it takes is 13 states to defeat any constitutional change.
It won't happen, so why not work toward changes we can make to the existing gun laws?
Pres. Obama isn't and shouldn't expend political capital on an issue he won't win, instead he should propose reasonable gun control laws that would stand a fair chance of passing.
Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)according to you. OK, got it.
I am ANGRY. I am not alone. There are people like me in every state in the union.
I am trying to be optimistic that we can be as civilized as the UK or Australia -- that such a shocking massacre might lead us to EFFECTIVE action. Not a single mamby-pamby proposal from Senator Feinstein or President Obama has any realistic chance of stopping the carnage.
The fact is, we can't even begin to craft effective laws as long as we labor under the poor language and misguided thinking encapsulated in the 2nd amendment. When the constitution no longer serves we the people of the these United States, we have the right and the duty to call for it to be changed.
Yes, it might be a long road. I'm still waiting for the ERA. But we need to get started on that long road TODAY, not waste our time with one more commission.
axetogrind
(118 posts)You aren't going to repeal the 2A, period, so why waste time on something thats not going to happen?
Instead, lets work on getting some real reforms into law that stand a very real chance of getting through the Congress.
I'm not being obtuse, I'm being realistic.
Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)Just a fig leaf so that politicians can pretend to do something.
I'm done with pretending, I want EFFECTIVE action!
axetogrind
(118 posts)it's well within your right to petition the Congress for a repeal of the 2A, just don't get mad when you realize that it won't happen and don't get angry when I say I told you so.
It is extremely difficult to amend the Constitution and this is one issue that just won't happen so I will expend my efforts in trying to get the Congress to enact laws that will pass Constitutional muster.
jody
(26,624 posts)Fear of that caused the Founders to add the BOR to protect a minority from abuse of a simple majority.
Since you've read about Jefferson, then you can probably cite passage after passage from Jefferson on that topic.
Fear of an all powerful central led Jefferson and Madison to write the KY and VA Resolutions to impose state governments as a protector for individuals.
But I'm preaching to the choir because you've read Jefferson.
TheKentuckian
(25,026 posts)are fixing to all the sudden vote to remove their own right to keep and bear?
You think folks in the Dakotas, Alaska, Wyoming, Montana, West Virginia, Alabama, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Texas, Tennessee, Florida, Colorado, Utah, Vermont, hell even Wisconsin are ever actually going to do any such thing?
Some of those states like Alaska it would circumstantially pretty much insane. No cop is coming in anything like enough time to do shit. What is the presence and response time in Montana? You think poor folks in West Virginia and Kentucky are hearing you on not hunting and it is just sport? There are plenty in Appalachia that are happy someone hunts, even if they don't when that food is on the table. I know folks in Wisconsin that would see it no different or worse than making gardens illegal.
It just is not plausible to repeal in reality. The states I named aren't the only ones but at least a generational firewall.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)It is a social rite of passage to earn one's way toward becoming a driver by taking driver's ed, passing written and performance tests, purchasing a car, being responsible for maintaining that right with annual registration fees, keeping it properly maintained, financial responsibility, legal responsibility.
Sadly, maybe it's time to add another rite to the challenge of growing up...the times, they are achangin'
Kids have been known to steal the family car keys with terrible results, but people don't blame the parents for having a car. It is certainly possible that these guns were under lock and key and the Mom who stood in that place of authority, was killed. The security system at the school didn't stop him either.