It's such a joy to see how well guns solve irritating little inconveniences...

Let them step up and tell us once again why SYG is needed in FL or anyplace else.

yup

something tells me he'll have a hard time persuading a jury it was.

....a "law abiding" CCW holder.

SYG is the reason it happened.

Gun play apology fail.

yup

They further muddy already muddy situations. Here's hoping the guy goes to jail and loses his CCW license.

If you can find justification in either SYG or concealed carry laws to shoot someone over a raised fist/shoving, I'm all ears. I believe, in any event, you're supposed to attempt to flee before "standing your ground," anyway.

I can see what you mean about the distinction between the initial argument and the escalation. Point taken.

He had no quarrel with the person he shot, he started one.

Now where have I heard this story before?

it appears that the shooter deliberately put himself in a position where a reasonable person might feel threatened (he accosted another patron and was yelling at him and was apparently in his face). when the victim took physical but clearly non-life threatening action, the shooter pounced on the presumed opportunity to attempt a legal homicide under his own armchair legal analysis.

is the world really a better place if people this concealed lethal weapons go around sticking their faces right up in other peoples' faces and essentially shouting "TOUCH ME AND YOU DIE!! TOUCH ME AND YOU DIE!!"

i could be wrong but i don't think that's what "stand your ground" is meant to be all about.

And yet another relevant qualifier would be, ""We determined it did not reach a level where deadly force was required." Whether you meant that or not...

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you should expect it. And as the nopity icon suggests, I'm not going to feel sorry for you.

What the fuck is wrong with you? That is the goddamn dumbest thing I have EVER read.

Looks to me like the victim was arguing with the establishment about service. The shooter, feeling brave because he knows he has a gun and the SYG law behind him, decided to straighten this guy out and started an argument with him. The shooter started an argument with someone that he knew was already in a bad mood.

What I hear you saying is that the victim deserved it.

The SYG laws encourage cowards to bully.

Used in this way, wherein the concerned citizen incites an argument knowing that he has his CCL to back him up, would likely qualify as 2nd or 3rd degree murder (at least) if he killed the victim & the SYG defense fell through.

It's an idiotic law and should be eliminated.

... then you'll be sorry. Gentlemen, we can't have fighting here - this is DU.

A gunslingers, testosterone driven insanity. You should never have the expectation of getting shot. Period.

If you think people who get into arguments should expect to be shot you are the last person who I would want owning a gun. People with your kind of attitude are the reason we need gun control badly.

First: Shooter could have not involved himself in the patron-restaurant dispute. I believe the term for that is "Mind his own business".

Second: I pity the idea that the shooter and people who agree with his nuttery are such wimps that they have to respond to a shove with a gun.

indicates that one has become obnoxious beyond even the fairly lenient standards that pass for decent behavior. At some point being an asshole effects everyone in the store and not just the workers of the store, who probably deal with more than enough shit already.

Point two: I kind of see the point here, but on the other hand I see no reason why someone who is having a dispute with another should be expected to tolerate a physical altercation. How much of a beating do you believe you should have to tolerate for confronting someone who is behaving like a jerk?

And since the police don't seem to believe the guy shot was the instigator, what makes you believe that? Oh, right...your undying love of guns and how wonderful they are.

response was disproportionate. I'll have to defer to their judgement because they talked to the witnesses.

Have fun with the mind-reading though.

So that would indicate that the police don't believe he was the instigator. No mind-reading necessary. Just....um....reading.

Suggesting that the shooter only confronted the victim when he got to a point of annoying the other customers? You dont know that. Even if he was annoying the rest of the establishment, that is not a reason to confront him. Confronting him will only escalate the problem. Call the police.

"How much of a beating do you believe you should blah blah blah". That's absurd. I can see a person that might try to calm someone down that is obviously upset. If they dont appreciate it and want to fight, THEN YOU FUCKIN LEAVE. You dont pull out a gun and shoot. SYG laws give courage to cowards.

gone outside and called the police if the guy was becoming that belligerent?

Great policy.

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl/1986_267429/neighbors-ignore-rape-victim-s-screams.html

I assume the "mind your own business" also should apply to those who want to keep law-abiding citizens from legally carrying guns?

So yelling about late pizza is like rape?

The Delicate Flowers are bending over backwards to justify their Precious-Worship.

Not that they don't do that on 24x7....

Are you really sick enough to compare someone who ignores a rape with someone staying out of a shouting match over a pizza?

"Mind your own business" is "mind your own business". Either it is a good policy or it isn't.

Obviously the guy handled it poorly and overreacted but I think it was right for someone to stand up to the bully since the employees were not able/allowed to.

One of the problems in our society is people minding their own business when someone else is being picked on.

ride edowntown should it escalate, nobody gets to use his precious gun. Get it? We're trying to have a civalization here, not Tombstone circa 1850.

The second guy shouldn't have said a damn thing, the first customer's complaint was with the restaurant, not with him.

But he felt emboldened to say something, instead of minding his own damn business.

I wonder why that was....

I'd wager you're spot on, Ikonoklast.

They hope that someday, they'll get a chance to legally shoot someone.

He turned what would have been a simple fistfight into a deadly weapon assault for no reason other than he is a coward and needa a firearm for bravery.

Remember that to Delicate Flowers, their Precious is the difference between cowering under the bed all day long, and going out in public.

If he didn't have his Precious, he wouldn't have been in the restaurant. He would've had to order delivery, and in that case, the delivery person would have been in grave danger.

"Hey, this pizza is cold!" BANG.

who has a history of extreme violent outbursts...the text: With wife and kids in restaurant, **** ***** is 3 tables down!!!! glad I'm packing!

Fucking idiot.

In their fantasies, they stand up, everybody else dives for the floor, the shooter stand there dumbly, and they calmly shoot the miscreant thru the eyes.

In reality, they empty their clip/magazine/whatever in a blind panic, wound or kill innocent bystanders, and have excrement-filled pants.

by shooting BOTH of the customers right between the eyes.

guy with the loud music. Without the gun I think neither guy would have instigated the incident. SYG should not apply if you start the hassle.

seem to revere our history. Maybe it would work?

"Shootout at the O.K. Pizzeria."

Shoot me now!

That, by the way, is the last thing you should ever do if you have a gun on you: Pick more fights because you have a gun to "back you up".

Doesn't have to be a gun, either. I knew a guy many, many years ago who used to regularly pull the same thing because he was a skilled practitioner of Brazilian jiu-jitsu. He was almost at the level where he could teach it and he used to brag about how he'd intentionally make himself part of an otherwise unrelated altercation just so he could (potentially) show off his skills. Eventually he did it and found himself staring down the barrel of some guy's pistol.

This nutball in the story "won". He got to play the sheriff in town and shoot the guy- who I'm really glad lived. Now Big Man In The Pizza Bar is not so big.

Frightening.

PB

It's crazy down here...

...oops...I mean what is the world is going on in America?

There is no place that is safe with Concealed Carry!

That's an expensive 5 dollar pizza

Agitated morons running around with loaded weapons. What could go wrong?

Shot over a pizza...how fucking pathetic.

What can you say but "WOW" to this attempt at herd-thinning?

That stuff is pure crappy junk.