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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDavid Gregory did break the DC gun law, and this is why strict liability laws are (mostly) so stupid
There has been a trend for the past fifty or so years to make more and more laws strict liability. This has come about for many reasons but most of all it is a reflection of the US society thinking that a host of things are bad and dangerous and therefore we need to be protected against them. It also comes from the desire for prosecutors to have an easier job convicting someone.
Under the traditional common criminal law there needed to be proven a state of mind called mens rea. wiki here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea
Mens rea means you need to have a guilty mind. You must know you are doing something illegal and intend to do it.
For example, in Illinois there is a law that you can't drive with any level of THC in your blood. If you do, it is DUI. It does not matter if you intended to get high or are even impaired. For example, if you are in a room with pot smokers, not get high, but get some THC in your blood, then for as long as it is in your blood you are DUI. You can't drive for weeks or months for it to clear your system even if stone sober. This is another stupid strict liability law.
Did David Gregory know he was breaking the law? No. But he did.
The real danger in strict liability laws is it allows prosecutors huge discretion on who to prosecute. David Gregory will never be prosecuted. Never, never, never. His position of privilege means ruin upon any prosecutor who tries to do that. But woe be the poor person who gets caught with a thirty round magazine.
I'm editing this to add:
In my personal opinion I think the thirty round magazine ban is a good thing. But to apply it with strict liability is a terrible thing. There is no room for honest mistake or inadvertence.
hlthe2b
(102,291 posts)As producers of more "law and order" (cough cough) tv shows than any other network, do you honestly think NBC does not have access to realistic props nor arrangements to use them in locales (e.g., NYC) with restrictive controls?
You assert otherwise. WHERE is YOUR proof?
But more importantly, why is this your fixation, rather than the horrendous deaths of six and seven year olds--or the more recent slaughter of firefighters using the very same weapons?
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)He said it was a 30 round magazine. He could have said it was a facsimile. He did not.
Honesty and truth telling are supposed to be important for journalists.
It is the worst sort Sophistry to accuse me not to care about dead children. I have stayed clear of the gun wars around here because they tend to bring out the worst sort of assholes on DU.
hlthe2b
(102,291 posts)But also try answering the more important question:
Why is this your fixation, rather than the horrendous deaths of six and seven year olds--or the more recent slaughter of firefighters using the very same weapons?
WHY?
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)Why is this my "fixation'? (your word not, mine)
Because generally strict liability laws in any setting can be really dangerous.
And I am at a loss why everyone must only discuss what you want discussed and not anything else.
hlthe2b
(102,291 posts)guns says everything anyone here needs to know about you. There really isn't anything more to say.
I find it fascinating that your thread (and those of other seeming obsessive gun advocates) propagating this BS re: Gregory's showing of that magazine is near identical to threads on RW websites.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)Number of guns I own: 0
Number of times I have shot a gun: 4
Years since the last time I shot a gun: 6
Number of guns I have owned: 0
And that proves what, exactly?
When you propagate RW-NRA talking points sans any facts whatsoever, DUers are going to question your doing so.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)If one reads the post in it's entirety I was not advocating prosecuting Mr. Gregory. My point was to point out the absurdity of strict liability laws in most occasions. He technically broke the law but if the law is framed in such a way not to give him a safe harbor then it is a bad law. And that law is framed that way. There should be a safe harbor for a host of reasons.
It was been a has few weeks in the gun area and I understand how one can get over emotional about it.
Cheers!
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)With a gun wrangler off stage.
You've seen Colbert brandish his precious? We are talking NY City here, where that gun is mostly illegal.
You think they have not crossed every T and dotted every I legally either?
You fell for the RW NRA inspired talking point...oohs shiny.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)I've worked in Hollywood most of my life and your statement is utter crap.
Props are props.
I'm sure you know better though since "Propmaster" is probably on your resume with everything else you claim to have done.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)The company he works for has on staff lawyers, who regularly file entertainment exceptions with every city where they film murder mysteries and all that.
They have on staff gun wranglers, who are just off stage and handle these props, they hold multiple licenses, both state and federal.
So you think a company that has an entertaining division did not know this? You serious?
What you are doing is quite frankly taking the bait and getting distracted.
This is why they win...look, shiny!!!
renie408
(9,854 posts)but I think you are saying it in the wrong place.
This post was less about the Gregory incident and more about the stupidity of strict liability laws. They just used the Gregory clip thing as an example.
hlthe2b
(102,291 posts)One which the NRA is pushing all its cultist minions to use.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)The clip was powerful. I am betting the gun lobby is behind it...called framing. The frame...lib'rul elites can and do break the law with immunity...see, we don't have to pay attention.
Never mind that no law was broken.
And we need those laws..the US actually has very lax laws.
renie408
(9,854 posts)The gun clip?
Now I really am misunderstanding.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Where he showed a 30 round extended magazine.
You dig now?
I am amazed how easy it is to distract people with non-issues.
hlthe2b
(102,291 posts)on it totally out of context....LOL
renie408
(9,854 posts)renie408
(9,854 posts)This post only mentions Gregory in passing. This post isn't even about that. This post is about strict liability laws and mens rea.
Do YOU dig now?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)But you go on, keep getting distracted. And the OP is thanked by the NRA.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)For the famous, wealthy and well connected.