This takes gold digging to a new level. I'd say she lucked out by funding out up front how shallow this guy was.

You just have to be responsible.

that caused financial hardship.

You either love somebody or you don't. We're all not perfect. And I'm not talking about murderers or child abusers here...

You can also love someone that's no good for you.

I wouldn't say it's shallow, just creepy.

When you add in the fact that credit scores are easily and routinely manipulated by the very agencies tasked with calculating them, it becomes obvious and undeniable that a credit score is an accurate measurement of nothing at all.

They should be abolished for all matters of business, finance and employment.

A modern economy runs on credit.

there are so many people that you can't do business in the old handshake way of knowing everyone you do business with.

There has to be some way of telling wether someone is able to handle the credit.

It may need reforms, maybe some government oversight, but abolishing it will create more problems then it will fix.

I think I finally got

A. Collect underpants
B. ?
C. Profit

If the economy runs on this information, let us have access to it so that we can make our assessments on a level playing field.

Either that, or we must implement an airtight, objective and uniform standard by which credit scores are assessed. Right now they are an entirely artificial metric with no one really watching the watchmen.

With the way the score is done, or peoples information?

The way scoring is done would be fine, releasing my info to anyone, i'm not for.

But now that you mention it I see no reason why credit scores shouldn't be available for anyone who wants them. No need to disclose actual earnings or income, of course; it would be sufficient to have the credit scores universally available.

Why should this information be made available only to a privileged few?

And credit scores are one of those things defended by federal law.

For example, it is a federal felony for anyone to pull your credit score without a business reason for doing so, and individuals who have access to these scores have been prosecuted for doing so.

Among the problems with your theory is that allowing anyone to access credit information would greatly facilitate ID theft and financial fraud. It would also endanger vulnerable people, such as those who have moved to escape a stalker or a violent ex-spouse.

But even morally, don't you see the problem? Scores and the associated information contain a great deal of private information. It is not your right to know such details about your neighbor, your best friend, your coworker, or that SOB you don't like at work. It is not your right to know, even implicitly, that anyone has high medical bills, or a medical condition, or has been exposed to any one of life's vicissitudes.

People like you are the reason why we need laws to enforce what should be common sense. You have none, if you think this type of info should be publicly available.

If that information is so privileged and confidential, then why does every tom, dick & harry organization claim a pressing need to be able to access that information?

Prospective employers, for instance, have no legitimate reason to access this rating, yet they do, and it's used for assessing eligibility.

A prospective lender should be required to demonstrate a compelling reason why they are entitled to explicit details of the prospective borrower's credit history, and this shouldn't be attached as part of a routine application. That is, the simple act of seeking credit shouldn't entitle the creditor to comb through every line of history. The credit rating, if it's worth anything at all, should be sufficient for this purpose. The line-by-line history is only used to punish the borrower and never (as far as I'm aware) to mitigate the circumstances of a shaky credit score.

There should be more limits than there are now. To assume that anyone with a credit problem, for example, is a potential criminal who will steal money at a job is ridiculous.

But the problem is in no way solved by allowing just access to credit scores. A person may have a bad credit score because of medical bills, for example, and this will really expose that person to illegal discrimination for a medical condition.

Credit scores are so widely used because we only want perfectly inexpensive employees in our corporations, and because it is a way to evade anti-discrimination laws.

A lender is entitled to the information, surely. The details matter a great deal. But employers? Rarely.

That credit cards, etc can request to send you offers. That is complete garbage. The only time a credit score should be able to be accessed is if the individual agrees to it. If you don't agree, then don't lend the money, but don't tell someone else the credit score.

Also, how shall I put it - perhaps a bit uncharitable?

Always having your house in financial order means that you have have never given your nest egg to help someone in real trouble - usually through no fault of their own.

I'd rather know, deal, date and lend to someone who has got in trouble a few times because they were helping others in desperate need out.

So very few of us are really wealthy enough to both be very charitable and always secure. I'd prefer those who were mentally and morally strong enough to take an occasional financial risk to help another human being in need out. One of the reasons for saving is not just to make yourself secure, but to be able to help others out when they are in need.

Probably not something I'd ask on a first date, but a person with a wildly different credit score can indicate a very different set of financial goals. If one person spends consistently beyond their means and the other doesn't, that's a significant impediment in a relationship.

Unless you're willing to assess the realities of another person's entire financial history, then asking for a credit score is no different from basing a person's worth on how much cash they happen to be carrying at the time of the question.

Countless factors affect one's credit score, relatively few of which are ultimately the fault of (or under the control of) the individual.

What "many" things can happen to my credit score that I have no "fault" in?

Credit score is not that difficult to determine, bad events can be contested and removed, and good events always show up.

Having a bad credit score is certainly not someone else's fault.

An account for which I was never responsible.

The bogus information brought my credit scores down from north of 800 to the low 600s. I was unable to get a good deal on a refinance that I wanted to do in January of this year.

It took several months to get the mess cleaned up. B of A was really nasty to deal with, and only backed down after I filed a complaint with the federal Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

Totally not my fault.

But, you were able to get it removed.

And if you had a 800+ score it would be based on alot ... alot of things. One bad report would not drop it to the low 600's.

Not saying that events do not happen that effect your credit score, but if you would have checked your credit score before applying for the refinanace, that would not have happened.

Credit score is just like anything else, it requires you to pay attention to it to have a good one.

I know what I'm talking about here.

You could be correct ... I can damn well tell you I am not about to try it and find out


I understand that shit happens. I am a "Jr." and when applying to purchase my first car my credit was great. It was my fathers.

But, I can also tell you that getting to that 800+ was no accident.

Off the top of my head I can think of a bunch of factors that negatively impact one's credit rating, though I admit that they boil down to "didn't make payments." However, until credit ratings take these factors into account, then it's a cookie cutter system that ultimately does nothing except provide lenders (and, idiotically, employers) a laundry list of ways to deny credit.

Here are a few factors over which the borrower has limited, if any, control:
1. Unforeseen loss of employment
2. Unforeseen loss of spousal income
3. Unforeseen medical expenses
4. Unforeseen living expenses (furnace repairs, car repairs, etc.)
5. Identity theft

You can argue that identity theft can be contested, and indeed it can, but I personally know quite a few people whose credit ratings were hammered by such theft, and they took many months to restore.

You might also argue that the other factors aren't the responsibility of the creditor, and indeed they are not, but do you accept that these factors are substantively different from a borrower who simply opts not to make his payments? Until the credit rating system can accurately account for these differences, then the credit rating does nothing except serve the lender and screw the creditor.

Heck, it's almost as though that was the intent all along.

All of these things are out of your control. Planning for them is not.

The reason that 800+ credit score is such a hard thing to achieve is because those things you wrote happen. People who have the 800+ scores are prepared for them, are able to find new employment, are able to absorb the hits. It is not an accident.

When I was young and had yet to establish great credit and maintain bank balances, these things would toss me for a loop quick. Hell, a blown tire could ruin my weekend plans. Late 40's now, and it would take two or three of those things happening at the same time to make me scared ... well, identity theft scares me enough to have "lifelock".

I know people who drive 60K cars, have 250K mortages, and every new thing you can have ... TV/DVR/electric bottle openers FFS. Yea, you loose your job you are in a hurt quick ... that's your fault.

One should certainly plan ahead when planning ahead is possible, but that's hardly the issue. The issue is what happens when one is unable to plan ahead?

I've had this discussion enough times to expect that you'll follow with a sermon about how it's always possible to plan ahead, and I suppose that's probably true, except for the hundreds of millions of Americans who live from paycheck to paycheck.

At this point, the sermon then becomes "cut expenses" or "get another job," both of which are likewise unrealistic for most of those same hundreds of millions.

Of coarse everyone can plan ahead, things do not always go as planned. I am not going to say that everyone can and will be successful, and have a 800+ credit score.

Some people will simply be better off than others. It is what it is. Am I saying it is fair? No.

What I am saying, is people with 800+ credit scores managed to pull that off. They are less of a credit risk because of that and they benefit from that.

I know people on both sides of the spectrum, I started out in life at the bottom of the totem pole. I made friends back then that I still have today. Some of them are still in the paycheck to paycheck life, and for some ... it is their fault that they live that way. I am not saying that everyone that lives like paycheck to paycheck, it is their fault, but for some the poor choices they make every single day are what keep them where they are.

The average income where I live is about $110K, I bring that average down. I know alot of people who get themselves in trouble by over extending and destroy their credit. I also know people who make 20k a have excellent credit. Life is going to throw you alot of problems, some of them you will bring on yourself, how you deal with them makes you who you are.

In the end, you control those things.

Getting involved with somebody who spends more than every cent they have isn't something I'm interested in.

And while yes, you can say that all these potential issues can come up, but I was taught to always save money and to work to get your debt paid off as quickly as you can so it doesn't drag you down. Everybody makes mistakes, but having a low credit score can indicate that it wasn't a mistake but a series of poor choices.

I regard being in agreement on financial matters the same as having the same general political outlook, a similar interest in learning, love of animals etc. It just creates issues if you are too different on major issues. I've spent a lot of my life paying for the mistakes of others, I don't want to do that in a relationship too.

In this day and age if that story had read "He found out she was catholic" or "She discovered his grandmother was black" we'd be appalled. Making a dating judgement on a credit score is really no better.

You might as well bring your resume to the date with you.

Yes, there may be issues and people learn these things about each other and perhaps they can solve them together, or perhaps they learn the worst. Credit scores are shallow glimpses of a person.

who wants to be an engineer. I mentioned that I thought it would be best to marry someone totally unrelated to that field (perhaps an electrician, plumber, nurse, or doctor). She got a very downcast look before I finished by saying that, in the end, you must follow your heart, and, so long as the your prospect is a good person then the other part does not matter. I think she is smitten by a boy who also wants to be an engineer.

Asking for a credit score on the first date? I simply can't imagine it. What you don't want to waste time with low prospects? On the other hand marrying a spendthrift could be devastating. It seems that as the relationship builds that knowledge will come about.

A while ago there was an article about people passing on marriage because of student loan debt.

student loan debt. His family had money, so he had none. They met in college so he knew there were student loans (or he should have). They weren't even talking of marriage. She dumped him. The loan questions weren't the reason, but after all was said and done, she now questions his interest.

Credit scores are about as accurate as IQ scores. That is, they accurately measure one's performance on a given test, but they have only limited correlation to reality beyond the boundaries of the test.

And mental health history.

I'm 54 and don't have time to get involved with someone who is buried in credit card debt or has serious psychological issues.

the debt situation without asking for a list of debts and income, etc.

As a "mature" woman, one thing I started considering once I hit 40 was a man's financial situation. It's not unheard of for men to target women of a certain age, and raid their life savings.

Too much booze drinking is another strike out. Men as they get older start to reap what they have sown all their lives....bad debts, bad health, booze starts to catch up with them, diabetes from a lifetime of not learning to restrict what they eat (real men don't diet!).

But a man who isn't financially sound after he reaches a certain age is bad news. And vice versa, I guess. Although it's more acceptable for a man to "take care" of a woman financially than for a woman to "take care" of a man financially. I was married to a deadbeat once. Once was enough.

They are desperate to have a significant other in their older years....they can't seem to get along on their own. Women are much more capable of living on their own, for some reason (and being happy with it).

Large debt is not a bad thing for your credit score.

I have been told that the reason my credit is not "perfect" is the fact that I have no credit card history. As in, I pay the damn thing off every month and have for two decades, so no credit score from that.

House, check.
Car, check.
Bank Loan, check.
Credit cards, none.

I would agree with the opinion, I am way past the age that I would get involved with a woman who is in "over her head". Been there, done that.

I just had a girl friend for ten years that I didn't know. She had mental problems, she couldn't hold a job, no drivers license for 25 years and finally got caught. She cost me all my savings and was dragging me down to her depressed life. She finally got on SSDI and dropped me like she hit the lottery. She left me broke and depressed and I am so glad she is gone. It's been a year and things have turned around, back to a normal life even got some savings going on again.
But now I'm scared shitless to find another girl friend. So now I'm lonely but I guess that is better than being used to death by someone who could give a shit less about me.

miserable sucks more than being alone.

I'm in my 50s and a woman's debt structure and her ability to maintain it are paramount in my decision in starting a relationship.

I was burned in my 30s by a woman who I didn't question her finances.

the other partner responds. But I wouldn't demand to see a credit score right off the bat. Granted, lying does take place much to many people's disappointment. But a relationship has to be built on trust anyway.

by people with tons of debt. Both men and women. Credit score doesn't tell the whole story - like maybe someone had a health problem that created the debt - but it at least gets the conversation started. I think it's reasonable to want to know what financial situation someone is in before you legally mix your finances, and early enough that you can bail if it's a deal breaker.

This is an area where people are often not honest. If there's a bad credit score, you can talk about it, but everyone needs to know where everything is.

My most stable and longest lasting relationships had little to do with hormones and more to do with security.

I guess there are people (outside of characters in Edwardian British period dramas) that predicate their love for someone on mere credit ratings. I guess if companies are considered people for legal purposes, people can act like companies for the purposes of overcoming those nasty and cumbersome emotional considerations.

"We're not dating, per se.... we're simply merging our personal portfolios to take better advantage of the current economic climate and low interest rates." is a most wonderfully romantic way to woo.


sigh.

1) A certified statement of net worth;

2) The results of your last physical (including any blood word done);

3) Certificate of Title for your car (if no car, please explain);

4) Type of coffee you drink: ___ Starbucks ___Tassimo ___Keurig ___ Instant;

5) Current assessed value of your primary place of residence; and

6) The proposed method of payment for the date: ___ I pay ___ You pay ___ We go dutch.

As someone who has, at various points in my life, rated all the way from "A True Catch!" to "Don't-Touch-Them-With-A-Ten-Foot-Pole!", I must say this is several kinds of screwed up.

... .such a question, upon thinking about it I'm not sure it is unreasonable. Believe me, women sizing up a man as a potential partner might not come right out and ask for a credit score, but if you don't meet their idea of financial accomplishment or at least stability you are going nowhere.

I certainly would not be interested in getting involved with a woman who could not handle her finances. There are other ways to assess that than credit score however.

Basically, I think a man or woman looking for a LTR has a right to know about that aspect of their potential partner's life.

... they'd understand. Getting turned down for car and home loans, bouncing checks, warrants and police showing up at the door. And not because the person was having a tough time - but because they're too ADD or lazy to make payments on time or enter exenditures into a checkbook registry.

No one seems to find that offensive or unacceptably impolite.

Yes, I know this must've felt insulting and heartbreakingly cold and impersonal for her, but it's really no different than the salary questions any man expects on a date. And really, it's no less reasonable. I understand the salary questions completely. No sane woman wants to get tangled up with a man who can't or won't do his share financially. And no sane person would want to have their credit wrecked if they can avoid it, either.

Talking about finances and money and goals and values and credit is a good thing.

If nothing else, sharing credit scores between the 2 people, would be a great springboard for discussion.

Using credit scores as an elimination tool on the first couple of dates is shallow to me,,,,, but talking about them if the relationship gets serious would be a very good thing and very revealing as to compatibility.

I'm an old lady tho ~ so what did I know??

Just because when I was younger I might have thought it was un-romantic, but now that I'm older and I've seen a lot of bad relationships and divorces that could have been avoided had this been discussed, it doesn't seem like a bad idea. Not on the first date as that's making huge assumptions about where a relationship is headed too early, but before a couple gets too serious.

Then she didn't have to waste any more time with him.

I appreciate when people are up front about their shallow judgmentalism. I'm still "fortunate" enough to be able to be quite choosey in the dating world and I might even have walked out of that date . . . or, I'd treat it as a learning opportunity for the remaining 30 minutes or so to see what other characteristics might form a "tell" had he not had the effrontery to raise such a question on the first date. It's really fascinating what you can learn from the cheaters, batterers, and con artists you're able to smoke out in a conversation (who had an M.D., PhD, and, MBA, respectively, btw). It's not something you can easily discern from a google search or a lot of email exchanges--not from the clever ones, anyway.

I didn't cause not could have foreseen a range of things that have happened to me having to do with an ex's profound deception and some severe medical problems. I take responsibility for handling them, however. It's how I respond and cope and transform these issues that matters. And that's what matters to me in a potential partner. I prefer someone who's been broken by life and learned to live a richer life because of it.

Perhaps there's someone out there for this bozo. Not me, however.

"Where do you see yourself in five years."

If her answer is something you don't see for yourself, nothing has been lost by asking and everything gained.

What you bring to the table in a relationship, including the debts you have, should always be a consideration.

Hormones are vastly overrated and responsible for many a broken marriage. Along with financial troubles.

Knowing someone's credit score ahead of time assists in eliminating one main reason for divorce.