No deals have been made.

We're going off the cliff.

Yes, everyone's taxes will go up--momentarily.

I have a perfect record for the day so far.

As long as you've had the good fortune to make enough or inherit enough that you have money to invest, those earnings are taxed at a lower rate than wages from the sweat of ones brow. Percentage wise the higher income person is getting a break because payroll taxes are not progressive like income taxes. Because of the cap, they are essentially regressive. That's why the people who argue for a flat tax just don't get it. The breaks for capital gains and payroll taxes for the wealthy already "flatten" tax rates.

FWIW, I think the payroll taxes need to go back up. That's better than cutting Social Security benefits.

And then we can listen to a bunch of other DUers bitch and complain about Obama undermining Social Security.

I wash my hands of it all.

There are other ways to compensate for payroll tax cut...and if you're taking that away from the middle class at least tax the rich a bit more. Don't let the rich get off easier than the middle class.

I think it went away in 2010 but don't quote me on that.

was used to describe the EITC in its early days. Yes, it did expire in 2010 so had no bearing on the cliff debate. I had to google it last night

Happy New Year!

"Because the payroll tax is expiring and the Make Work Pay tax cut is not coming back, most working Americans will also see a tax increase. "

Going over the cliff, which allows all the tax cuts to expire, is better than any ridiculous deal, but the concern is for a payroll tax cut that no one wants to extend?

first place. I'm Ok with the Make Work Pay tax cut if they brought that back. We do have a debt of over $16 trillion, I think we should pay more or we will end up like the EU.

And if the lowest group is getting an unfairly large tax increase, doesn't that mean that they got a larger tax decrease to begin with?

It's hard to say who invests and who doesn't, it's actually a tiny or large group of Americans depending on who you ask

The exact same thing that every business owner does every day: buy low and sell high. We came up with a cool new label for it to reward the blue collar investor class.

The FICA increase, under current year assumptions, will be more than double the income tax increase. So over ten years, the FICA increase would bring in over 1.2 trillion, whereas what's being said about the tax increases on the very top brackets is that they will bring in 600 billion over ten years.

That makes sense to me.

The payroll tax cut was clearly, unquestionably, and unambiguously temporary. Everyone either knew this or should have known this. It was good for the economy while it lasted, but nobody realistically expected it to last longer than 2 years and that includes folks from both sides of the isle.

The Bush tax cuts were something entirely different. Even though a sunset provision was written in, everyone knew the GOP was not going to let go of tax cuts for the rich without kicking and screaming all the way. The only reason some token middle class tax cuts were included was to make it more palatable and to make it harder to let them go.

its a contribution toward one's retirement.

So, no, I don't think that's a particularly useful way to put things.

And it's a regressive one because it's subject to a cap. Lift the cap.

It's a tax that keeps our elderly, disabled, widows and their children from living on the street. It is an insurance program. The real name is OASDI - Old-Age, Survivors and Disabled Insurance. Ever heard of your Social Security and Medicare called FICA taxes? That stands for Federal Insurance Contributions Act.

Insurance is a funny thing. Normally we hope we never have to make a claim. If you never have to make a claim on your auto insurance do you feel ripped off or lucky? I hope you feel lucky. How do you "win" with life insurance? Die early? If we're lucky, we'll live long enough that we'll get some Social Security benefits. Maybe we'll live to be 90 and get more benefits than we put in. But if you die when we're 28 and have 3 kids like my roommate's husband did 32 years ago, you're still a "winner", because your survivors are provided for. If you have cerebral palsy and you're quadriplegic like my cousin's daughter, and have no hope of ever living independently, you're a Social Security "winner" because you get a tiny monthly check even though you were never able to contribute. Do you want to switch places with her? We are all Social Security beneficiaries even if we don't make it to retirement age, because having insurance has value.