and Bernie is definitely a Senator I trust. I've been hearing so many conflicting stories about "the deal" that it was impossible for me to know what was good or bad, though I knew what I was hoping for, namely that social security wouldn't be messed with in some obscure way. If Bernie is okay with it, that does make me feel better about it.

He did well, and hit them hard.

That is not to say ANYTHING about the upcoming sequester deal.

That will involve further capitulations.

But yeah, I'm trying to figure out what Bernie saw that I didn't see. I don't get it.

I mean the recent "fiscal cliff deal"

OP edited.

That's not the end of the war, but he won the battle, and very big one.

OP edited.

Agree 100%.. there is no way in hell that this is that bad.. he is the leftiest member of Congress !! geezys.. the way some are carrying on !!!

The cuts he was so deeply opposed to have just been postponed by a couple of months.

Just scanning over the document of the bill the Senate just passed, I didn't see anything about any debt ceiling provision. They just mentioned numbers for sequestration, but I'm not sure what the numbers were before so I don't know if they changed at all. I do know that it is still scheduled to take place in March.

So, from my understanding, the tax issue is basically decided, while the debt ceiling, spending cuts, and "entitlement reform" is still on the table. That isn't a win in my book. What are the Democrats gonna use to negotiate with in two months?

go for the Government taking the Healthcare programs out of the profiteering business. I guess I'm sold on Universal Healthcare now. That would bring the cost down. I think the costs for Healthcare has gotten ridiculous. That would take care of entitlement reform.

But that damn sure ain't gonna happen. The Republicans are going crazy over "Obamacare," which is basically the same sort of healthcare reform they championed back in the 90s and the same healthcare reform their damn presidential nominee instituted as governor.

You can be sure that any "entitlement reform" that takes place in the next two months will weaken Social Security, Medicare, and/or Medicaid.

Next time I read that about President Obama... well, you can imagine.

I can keep paying my car notes and child support

in the Deal that made that happen for you?

Going to take a 100 dollar hit monthly. And I live check to check.

not be pretty for me, either.

You mean if the middle class taxes went up?

Eom

You KNOW it's coming.

Throw Senator Bernie under the bus.

I GUARANTEE you the Reggabaets will lynch him completely within the hour.

Or, Sanders really opposed it, so it's a "principled" yes vote. That was the rationale when Kucinich voted for HCR.

Don't you worry! Big Bad Obama did SOMETHING wrong here and the usual suspects are on the case looking for an excuse!

and know this ""If Republicans think that I will finish the job of deficit reduction through spending cuts alone," he said, "that's not how it's going to work."

If this deal goes through, the tax issue is off the table. We will have resolved the tax portion of "the fiscal cliff."

What is left unresolved is the debt ceiling, spending cuts, and "entitlement" reform. The Republicans can do nothing and go over "the fiscal cliff" in two months and force spending cuts on Sanders and the entire country.

My only guess is that they all think the Republicans will cave on military spending, but I don't. The rich are their god, not the military. First and foremost they wanted the tax cuts. Cutting military spending is not a big thing for them because (1) even the Democrats don't stand behind cutting the military and (2) they can just go on TV and claim the Democrats are jeopardizing our country's security by cutting the military and the Democrats, like always, will cave.

he voted FOR it! Thanks Cali_Democrat.. And, HAPPY NEW YEAR 2013!

Holla!!

Cool!

I've been there! It's my favorite Island of the three I've been to (Maui, Kaua'i and Oʻahu)

I've yet to get to Maui or the Big Island.. hope I make it some day. But, I'm so busy just meeting challenges of living on this Island.


(2011 – Photo by Pete Souza)

http://theobamadiary.com/

HAPPY NEW YEAR 2013, Cali!

If Sanders is for it, it can't be that bad.

Unless someone is arguing he is..

.. but it's not horrible either.

It could have been a lot worse.

Maybe the new Congress will improve it.

— The 2009 expansion of tax breaks for low-income Americans: the Earned Income Tax Credit, the Child Tax Credit, and the American Opportunity Tax Credit will be extended for five years.

As of late, it's been sounding like the intransigence is just being ignored. I doubt that many of them, if any see the light.

This is not fiction here people, this is real life and those republicans in house really are the assholes everybody has been telling you about, get use to it and don't forget it so easy.

Why in the hell do you think we have a donkey as the mascot anyway

I know he decreased it, so I'm asking is it going to go to what it was when Clinton got into office, or to what it was when he left? From what I can find it's going to be 23ish%...so about halfway between the two. Edited to add: Aaaand I see it's in your last paragraph that I read twice and apparently still didn't comprehend a word of.

Either way #2 and #3 by themselves were worth kicking the tax cuts up $200k higher. I would think those would raise more revenue than what will be lost by moving that number up.

"Tax rates on capital gains and dividends will be set permanently at 20%."

Haven't they been at 15%? What happens to them if nothing manages final passage?

What happens to the capitol gains rate and dividend rate if we go over the cliff, nothing passes?

Overall, I tend to be in favor of this bill. Maybe I am missing something, but most of the complaints sound empty. the details, while not perfect, sound ok. And, even if it is an appeal to authority, I generally trust Jeff Merkley, Barbara Boxer, Bernie Sanders, and Sherrod Brown to try to do the right thing. I don't always trust that Obama will fight strongly for my best interests anymore. I felt pretty burned by some of his actions in the first term. But it appears to me he has done well on this. So far the only really questionable thing Ive seen about this bill is its ability to receive republican votes in the house.

If not then without the new bill passing they would stay the same.

Maybe someone here knows more than I do

I was hoping you knew. Google time.

Here is Wikipedia's excerpt
" In 2008–2012, the tax rate on qualified dividends and long term capital gains is 0% for those in the 10% and 15% income tax brackets.
After 2012, dividends will be taxed at the taxpayer's ordinary income tax rate, regardless of his or her tax bracket.
After 2012, the long-term capital gains tax rate will be 20% (10% for taxpayers in the 15% tax bracket).
After 2012, the qualified five-year 18% capital gains rate (8% for taxpayers in the 15% tax bracket) will be reinstated."

My initial reading is that it was going to 20% anyway, so that detail is not really a negotiating victory. Possibly its even a bit of a loss, given that it looks like dividends will actually be taxed at a lower rate, as compared to what would happen if no deal passed.

Still, overall it looks like the best deal yet presented. Unlike many here, I don't have any problem separating the SS discussion from the tax discussion. I think we can win each on the merits, at least as far as public opinion is concerned, and fighting them as separate events gives the Republicans two separate chances to publicly prove they hate Americans. And while I have no problem with taxes rising on those making 250k, 400k works for me as well. I dont think people with "earned" income are the problem. Its the ultra rich, living off of the work of others, and paying less taxes where we need to increase tax revenue most.

If it's good enough for Bernie, then it's good enough for me.

Last edited Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:09 AM - Edit history (1)

Yep! Good enough for America's only serving socialist senator = good enough for me. We'll take the deal and call it a hard-fought victory.

Now if we only had ten more like Bernie in the senate . . . !

Reposted from the Huffington Post:

WASHINGTON -- Three hours shy of the midnight deadline, the White House and congressional leaders reached a deal to avert the so-called fiscal cliff, several sources confirmed to The Huffington Post.

Under the deal brokered by Vice President Joe Biden and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), Congress would permanently extend the Bush income tax cuts at $400,000 and below, keep the estate tax threshold at $5 million and extend unemployment benefits for one year.

It would also temporarily delay the sequester -- i.e., billions of dollars in across-the-board spending cuts -- for another two months. The cost of continuing current spending levels will be paid for through an even mix of tax revenue increases and later spending cuts. Half of those cuts will come from defense spending; half will come from nondefense spending.

The deal includes other tax provisions as well: It extends the child tax credit and the college tuition credit for five years, individual and business tax extenders for two years, and the Medicare "doc fix" for one year. The Alternative Minimum Tax will be permanently fixed. The agreement also extends the farm bill for one year.

Notably, the fiscal package does nothing to address the debt ceiling, which the government just hit Monday. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner sent a letter to congressional leaders earlier in the day outlining emergency measures he can take to prevent the government from defaulting on the debt, but those measures will only delay default for a matter of weeks, until right around the time when lawmakers will have to address the sequester again. That sets up another major fiscal fight between the White House and Congress.

The deal still requires buy-in from members of both parties, and Biden was set to meet with Senate Democrats Monday night to try to sell them on the package. That could prove challenging given that key progressive groups, including the AFL-CIO, made it clear earlier Monday that they would oppose any deal that raised the income limit for extending the Bush tax cuts above $250,000.

Still, both Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) gave the deal their blessing Monday night in a phone call with President Barack Obama, sources confirmed.

A Pelosi aide suggested that while the House Democratic leader backs the proposal on the table, she isn't completely wedded to it.

"She's been supportive all along," said the aide. "Though if House Dems have serious problems, that could move her."

Reid spokesman Adam Jentleson said Senate Democrats would have preferred to push off the sequester for longer than two months, but Republicans wouldn't agree to that. The deal on the table is "what we could get," he said.

Jentleson lamented that the sequester and the debt ceiling will now need to be addressed at the same time, in a matter of months. "It's a lot to deal with," he said.

UPDATE: Tuesday, 12:39 a.m. -- Vice President Biden's principal argument to Democrats on Monday night appeared to be that this deal was the best that could be negotiated on a bipartisan basis and that while it might not be popular, it was better than going over the cliff.

Coming out of the meeting with the vice president late Monday night, many Senate Democrats conceded they were displeased with aspects of the deal but agreed with the vice president's larger point.

"The disagreement on this provision and that provision and other provisions are large and wide, but the number of people who believe that we should go over the cliff rather than vote for this is very small," said Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.). "It's not that this proposal is regarded as great or is loved in any way, but it's regarded as better than going over the cliff."

Schumer added that Biden essentially argued that going over the cliff "would be devastating," and he "was very persuasive, but he did not have to do much convincing."

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) sang a similar tune with respect to Biden's message.

"The argument is that this is the best that we could put together at this time on a bipartisan basis," Feinstein told reporters. "We need a bipartisan basis to get this done so that means compromises on both sides."

Some lawmakers sounded more positive notes. Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) said the deal was good for both her state and the country.

"My main concern here is keeping this economic recovery going, and I think this package does that," she said.

The House GOP leadership also broke its silence on the deal, although Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) stopped short of making any pledges to bring the bill to the House floor if it were to pass in the Senate.

"The House will honor its commitment to consider the Senate agreement if it is passed," read a joint statement issued by Boehner, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.), Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) and Republican Conference Chair Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R-Wash.). "Decisions about whether the House will seek to accept or promptly amend the measure will not be made until House members -- and the American people -- have been able to review the legislation."

UPDATE: Tuesday, 2:24 a.m. -- The Senate overwhelmingly passed the fiscal cliff legislation, 89-8.

Mike McAuliff contributed reporting.

the bill does not cut defense and extends tax cuts.

When push comes to shove, Bernie & Dennis in the house, vote with the President

100% of the time

They know how America has run from day one.

is not the same as Sanders approving of the quality of the administration's negotiations.

Sanders chose the lesser of two evils, imo.

The quality of that lesser evil was not up to Sanders, it was a result of the skill of the administration in its negotiation.

And for later down the road, in the next round of this battle, well, here's a quote from an e-mail from Senator Sanders on Dec. 21.

"Bernie agrees with AARP, the National Coalition to Preserve Social Security and Medicare and virtually all seniors’ organizations that Social Security should not be part of the deficit reduction negotiations. Bernie opposes the so-called chained CPI, which would lower benefits for the typical Social Security recipient who retires at age 65 by $653 a year at age 75 and by $1,139 a year at age 85. Bernie will vigorously oppose Republicans and President Obama and anyone else who wants to balance the budget on the backs of seniors."

Having said that I will agree that having Senator Sanders voting for the Senate bill is very significant and deserving of a thread and discussion.

. . . directed at this principled progressive.

Let's have it, damn it. We've taken enough shit from posters here over any support for this. Let's hear from all the rude and arrogant folks who couldn't resist their instinct to tear the President, the Democratic party, and our supporters down for supporting this deal. Let's hear it, damn it.

A vote is not necessarily a stamp of approval.

Just like he voted for Obamacare because the president had given away so much in the negotiations that HeritageCare was the best that could be hoped for at the 11th hour. In the entire run-up to the ACA vote he had pleaded with Obama to include a PO, but of course the president sided with Big Insurance over the American people and their actual representatives in congress. Before voting on ACA, he had on Hartmann's program expressed deep disappointment in the bill and its major supporter.