Either works for me, though the cliff is a nasty result.

If the House GOP can't do what they should, too bad.

we get to test the theory that President Obama can get a better deal.

There are pros and cons to going over the cliff.

The best things about going over the cliff are the defense cuts and the expiration of the full tax cuts on the rich. The worst things are the spending cuts to social programs (and you have to be willing to live with these).

This deal allows the majority of the tax cuts on the rich to expire, preserves the safety net, delivers more relief to low-income and unemployed Americans and doesn't cut spending.

Over the cliff, I think unemployment benefits would be extended, though I doubt it would be for a full year at 73 weeks. The President would definitely introduce the tax cuts below $250,000, but there is no guarantee he would get them. Sure Republicans would look like assholes for blocking them, but has that ever mattered to them?

The other programs in the current deal would not pass. Republicans, especially those in the House, would balk at extending the 2009 similus tax credits for college tuition, doc fix, permanent AMT and renewable energy tax credits.

Krugman agrees:

That's is easy to say for anyone who is not directly impacted by this cuts. But there are millions of people that will be and these cuts will be devastating to them. Are we really willing to let other people's children to starve to stand up for our ideological principles?

advocates going over the cliff is basically saying they're willing to live with the consequences.

Frankly, those focused on the expiration of all the tax cuts as the most important thing are putting the spending cuts, extension of unemployment and other aid secondary to that goal. I know because I accepted that to let the tax cuts expire meant postponing any extension or even losing some of these programs and accepting the spending cuts.

Howard Dean: "I think the smart thing to do here is to go over the cliff..."
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10022097157

Robert Reich:

The brunt of those consquences will be felt by other people. Howard Dean, who is governed as a fiscal conservative in Vermont, and Paul Krugman and Robert Reich won't be losing needed benefits by going over the cliff. It's easy for them to say go over the cliff because they won't be hurt much by it.

Can't say I'm surprised.

ugh

Watch the msm let them get away with double speak..

Biggest deficit reduction of all these proposals.

Fine, let the tax cuts expire. We'll all have to deal with what we get on the other side.

is that the teabaggers in the house do not even understand what is at stake or the details... we're up against stupid here and thus the results are chaotic!

I hope the admin can make lemonade out of these lemons.

Doubt it.